Nick McLaren
New member
Hi folks,
This is my first post, and a rather long one at that, so apologies.
Now that the cost of used digital backs is becoming (slightly) more affordable, I’m considering a tech cam and refurbished digital back for my landscape photography to compliment the workflow that my Large Format camera provides. I live in northern Scotland where calm days are pretty rare and wind is enemy no.1 for the Large Format photographer so I’m looking into a digital solution for use in windy and cold conditions so that I'm not dealing with a dark cloth blowing about and my glasses, ground glass and loupe all steaming up at once. A pancake camera makes most sense being more compact and aerodynamic than a bellows solution in the wind and certainly more accurate as far as alignment of the lens/sensor goes.
I’ve been doing A LOT of reading online and on this forum about the various cameras and sensor/lens combinations that work best with movements (Rodie HR’s and IQ160). Hopefully, I now have enough information to avoid you having to repeat what’s already been answered on these pages.
I'm not completely ruling out the Actus DB2 yet because it's obviously more versatile and the lenses are cheaper and lighter, however, I'm just not convinced that the DB2 has the critical tolerances between lens and back that are needed, it looks like the mounts have a bit of play in them and I've read that the zero marks can be a bit out (Cambo Actus GFX). If any Actus DB users on the forum are happy with the build quality and alignment then I’d appreciate some feedback, but if it’s not an option without live view then no need. I’ve read on another post that alignment isn’t such an issue if using f11 and no shifting. I would certainly be using rise/fall and tilt (when needed) most of the time. I liked the idea of being able to shift left/right for panos in combination with a rise/fall, but except for the SK 43XL, SK 60XL, SK 120 ASPH and Rodie 90HR-SW then you’re very quickly reaching the edge of most image circles and as people on the forum have mentioned, the SK lenses don’t do well with movements on CCD’s or is it just the 43XL and the 60XL is ok with a CF? It’s a real shame that Schneider have stopped production of digital lenses, I have the 150Apo L and 110XL for LF and they are stunning lenses. It seems that stitching around the nodal point is maybe the best solution if also using rise/fall, but having movements in all directions would be nice to have ‘in case’.
My budget doesn’t even come close to an IQ3100 with ‘proper’ live view, I don’t need 100MP (just now) anyway or a sensor that produces an even worse colour cast than CCD’s (although I’m sure mostly correctable with LCC’s). If red colour casts weren’t an issue with movements, a refurbished IQ150 would be the next best solution as far as focussing goes, however, being a cropped sensor I’d need the large, heavy and very expensive 32HR-W in order to achieve the widest focal length I’d use. I’m also trying to future-proof the investment as much as possible and only want to buy my lenses once, plus a full frame sensor will give me the slightly greater ‘invisibility’ of the focal length as far as wides go. The focal lengths I’d use the most would be the 40, 50 and 70HR-W’s.
My choice would be a refurbished IQ160, two of my reasons for refurbished are that the sensor will have been re-calibrated so hopefully no need for shimming and I’ve been told you can get them in XF mount, so that means I should just need to buy an IQ3 adapter plate and if I choose to upgrade several years down the line I wouldn’t have to buy another adapter plate for a future IQ back.
I was looking to get the lightest and most compact combination for carrying up mountains and longer distances. As mentioned above, ideally, I wanted rise/fall and shift all in one (Alpa 12 Max, WRS-1600 or 1250, Actus DB, Arca Rm3di), but the Max might be a bit too big, heavy and like the Arca, too expensive. The WRS-1600 or 1250 sound like the perfect solution and I really like the feature of the indents every 5mm on the gears combined with T/S built into the lenses until I found out from Cambo that the T/S lenses weighed about 1kg each! the Alpa lenses are certainly lighter and a ‘little’ bit cheaper.
The WRS-1600’s ability to turn from landscape to portrait seems utterly pointless if using the T/S lenses unless you have absolutely NO tilt or swing applied, otherwise all movements surely become the opposite of one another and you’d have to re focus or just take the back off and turn it as normal anyway. A ‘rotamount’ like the Arca on the back would’ve surely made more sense.
If the Cambo T/S lenses are too heavy then I might need to compromise on movements and consider the Alpa STC with a tilt adapter, although I’ve read on here that you can’t do tilts with wides on the Alpa, why is that? or was there an older tilt adapter that didn’t allow it? The posts I read about that were dated 2011 so things might have changed. If that is the case then I’d have to rule Alpa out.
Like I say, in real-world situations, I would mostly be using rise/fall and tilt 90% of the time so additional stitching isn’t absolutely essential if it keeps weight down.
The Arca Rm3di is a well-thought-out camera like the Cambo and I like the ‘Rotamount’ idea, however, I might get frustrated with the number of times you have to turn the focussing ring and they’re not as available in the UK as they are in the US.
So, my main questions are as follows:
1: Does the STC allow the digital back to stop at the 5, 10 and 15mm marks for predictable stitching? On the one video I've seen (in Spanish) it kind of looks like it does in horizontal stitch mode, but not solidly, and in rise/fall orientation it looks like it would just slide downwards under its own weight unless you lock the bearings. If that's the case then I would have to consider a Cambo WRS for that reason.
2: Could any Cambo users please tell me what the actual weight of the 40, 50 and 70HR T/S lenses are in grams please? And also what is the weight of a digital back? I can’t find that info anywhere either.
3: How much movement before the Rodie 40HR starts to loose sharpness in the corners at f11 or is it pretty solid right out to the edge of the image circle? I’m sure I saw a comparison with the 32HR so I’ll have a look for it again.
4: Assuming a laser measurer or distance scale/HPF ring can only be used for focussing ‘without’ tilts, and that I’d prefer not to carry a tablet into the wilds, what’s the best workflow for critical focussing with tilts on a CCD? From what I gather, ground glass focussing is difficult and can’t necessarily be trusted for critical focussing and if live view is so terrible on CCD’s then what are my options? Some people on the forum seem to be happy using live view for framing then check with focus mask. The focussing workflow seems like a right pain and is the biggest thing that’s putting me off the idea of a digital Tech Cam altogether. I have a Silvestri 12X loupe if ground glass is my only option.
5: As mentioned above, the lenses I was thinking about are the Rodie 40HR-W, 50HR-W and 70HR-W. The 40's about 7 years old now, what's the possibility of Rodenstock releasing new lens designs for these focal lengths in the next few years with even bigger image circles and with the quality of the 90HR-SW? As we know, 150MP is probably coming in the next year or so and lenses will need to resolve such resolution unless the current lineup already would?
Sorry for this long-winded post, I just want to make the right decision and not rush into anything. The more I read the more it sounds like using a digital tech cam is a PITA and I might be put off altogether. If you're able to answer any of my questions that would be a great help, I realise the only way of truly deciding is getting hands-on with the equipment and I’ve contacted Paula at Linhof Studio about that possibility or I might just bide my time and wait until the next major trade shows to see what other manufacturers release into the MF Digital market.
Thanks in advance.
This is my first post, and a rather long one at that, so apologies.
Now that the cost of used digital backs is becoming (slightly) more affordable, I’m considering a tech cam and refurbished digital back for my landscape photography to compliment the workflow that my Large Format camera provides. I live in northern Scotland where calm days are pretty rare and wind is enemy no.1 for the Large Format photographer so I’m looking into a digital solution for use in windy and cold conditions so that I'm not dealing with a dark cloth blowing about and my glasses, ground glass and loupe all steaming up at once. A pancake camera makes most sense being more compact and aerodynamic than a bellows solution in the wind and certainly more accurate as far as alignment of the lens/sensor goes.
I’ve been doing A LOT of reading online and on this forum about the various cameras and sensor/lens combinations that work best with movements (Rodie HR’s and IQ160). Hopefully, I now have enough information to avoid you having to repeat what’s already been answered on these pages.
I'm not completely ruling out the Actus DB2 yet because it's obviously more versatile and the lenses are cheaper and lighter, however, I'm just not convinced that the DB2 has the critical tolerances between lens and back that are needed, it looks like the mounts have a bit of play in them and I've read that the zero marks can be a bit out (Cambo Actus GFX). If any Actus DB users on the forum are happy with the build quality and alignment then I’d appreciate some feedback, but if it’s not an option without live view then no need. I’ve read on another post that alignment isn’t such an issue if using f11 and no shifting. I would certainly be using rise/fall and tilt (when needed) most of the time. I liked the idea of being able to shift left/right for panos in combination with a rise/fall, but except for the SK 43XL, SK 60XL, SK 120 ASPH and Rodie 90HR-SW then you’re very quickly reaching the edge of most image circles and as people on the forum have mentioned, the SK lenses don’t do well with movements on CCD’s or is it just the 43XL and the 60XL is ok with a CF? It’s a real shame that Schneider have stopped production of digital lenses, I have the 150Apo L and 110XL for LF and they are stunning lenses. It seems that stitching around the nodal point is maybe the best solution if also using rise/fall, but having movements in all directions would be nice to have ‘in case’.
My budget doesn’t even come close to an IQ3100 with ‘proper’ live view, I don’t need 100MP (just now) anyway or a sensor that produces an even worse colour cast than CCD’s (although I’m sure mostly correctable with LCC’s). If red colour casts weren’t an issue with movements, a refurbished IQ150 would be the next best solution as far as focussing goes, however, being a cropped sensor I’d need the large, heavy and very expensive 32HR-W in order to achieve the widest focal length I’d use. I’m also trying to future-proof the investment as much as possible and only want to buy my lenses once, plus a full frame sensor will give me the slightly greater ‘invisibility’ of the focal length as far as wides go. The focal lengths I’d use the most would be the 40, 50 and 70HR-W’s.
My choice would be a refurbished IQ160, two of my reasons for refurbished are that the sensor will have been re-calibrated so hopefully no need for shimming and I’ve been told you can get them in XF mount, so that means I should just need to buy an IQ3 adapter plate and if I choose to upgrade several years down the line I wouldn’t have to buy another adapter plate for a future IQ back.
I was looking to get the lightest and most compact combination for carrying up mountains and longer distances. As mentioned above, ideally, I wanted rise/fall and shift all in one (Alpa 12 Max, WRS-1600 or 1250, Actus DB, Arca Rm3di), but the Max might be a bit too big, heavy and like the Arca, too expensive. The WRS-1600 or 1250 sound like the perfect solution and I really like the feature of the indents every 5mm on the gears combined with T/S built into the lenses until I found out from Cambo that the T/S lenses weighed about 1kg each! the Alpa lenses are certainly lighter and a ‘little’ bit cheaper.
The WRS-1600’s ability to turn from landscape to portrait seems utterly pointless if using the T/S lenses unless you have absolutely NO tilt or swing applied, otherwise all movements surely become the opposite of one another and you’d have to re focus or just take the back off and turn it as normal anyway. A ‘rotamount’ like the Arca on the back would’ve surely made more sense.
If the Cambo T/S lenses are too heavy then I might need to compromise on movements and consider the Alpa STC with a tilt adapter, although I’ve read on here that you can’t do tilts with wides on the Alpa, why is that? or was there an older tilt adapter that didn’t allow it? The posts I read about that were dated 2011 so things might have changed. If that is the case then I’d have to rule Alpa out.
Like I say, in real-world situations, I would mostly be using rise/fall and tilt 90% of the time so additional stitching isn’t absolutely essential if it keeps weight down.
The Arca Rm3di is a well-thought-out camera like the Cambo and I like the ‘Rotamount’ idea, however, I might get frustrated with the number of times you have to turn the focussing ring and they’re not as available in the UK as they are in the US.
So, my main questions are as follows:
1: Does the STC allow the digital back to stop at the 5, 10 and 15mm marks for predictable stitching? On the one video I've seen (in Spanish) it kind of looks like it does in horizontal stitch mode, but not solidly, and in rise/fall orientation it looks like it would just slide downwards under its own weight unless you lock the bearings. If that's the case then I would have to consider a Cambo WRS for that reason.
2: Could any Cambo users please tell me what the actual weight of the 40, 50 and 70HR T/S lenses are in grams please? And also what is the weight of a digital back? I can’t find that info anywhere either.
3: How much movement before the Rodie 40HR starts to loose sharpness in the corners at f11 or is it pretty solid right out to the edge of the image circle? I’m sure I saw a comparison with the 32HR so I’ll have a look for it again.
4: Assuming a laser measurer or distance scale/HPF ring can only be used for focussing ‘without’ tilts, and that I’d prefer not to carry a tablet into the wilds, what’s the best workflow for critical focussing with tilts on a CCD? From what I gather, ground glass focussing is difficult and can’t necessarily be trusted for critical focussing and if live view is so terrible on CCD’s then what are my options? Some people on the forum seem to be happy using live view for framing then check with focus mask. The focussing workflow seems like a right pain and is the biggest thing that’s putting me off the idea of a digital Tech Cam altogether. I have a Silvestri 12X loupe if ground glass is my only option.
5: As mentioned above, the lenses I was thinking about are the Rodie 40HR-W, 50HR-W and 70HR-W. The 40's about 7 years old now, what's the possibility of Rodenstock releasing new lens designs for these focal lengths in the next few years with even bigger image circles and with the quality of the 90HR-SW? As we know, 150MP is probably coming in the next year or so and lenses will need to resolve such resolution unless the current lineup already would?
Sorry for this long-winded post, I just want to make the right decision and not rush into anything. The more I read the more it sounds like using a digital tech cam is a PITA and I might be put off altogether. If you're able to answer any of my questions that would be a great help, I realise the only way of truly deciding is getting hands-on with the equipment and I’ve contacted Paula at Linhof Studio about that possibility or I might just bide my time and wait until the next major trade shows to see what other manufacturers release into the MF Digital market.
Thanks in advance.