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Hasselblad X1D teardown - doesn't look very neat compared against Sony
- Thread starter voidshatter
- Start date
My friend swore it was part of the top of the body .... underneath the optical VF.Bob, since Sweeden is part of Scandinavia, (although not Norway), is there any chance you might find parts of those industructable sardine cans as a foundation for those X1D circuit boards? If tuna cans worked for the Japanese in your example, I would think use of sardine cans would be the natural evolutionary direction the photographic industry would take. The sardine can key would be the way to open and access the innards of the X1D.
Dave (D&A)
My belief is that we have been conditioned to expect perfection when mere excellence would suffice.
Hopefully I will not have to tear into the 4116 to keep it running ... unlike the Saab 96 that taught me so much about auto mechanics, bailing wire and duct tape.
Bob
I could have said CDC 6600, but I didn't want to date myself.
danlindberg
Well-known member
jerome_m
Member
I really like that construction. It allows a mechanically stable connection between lens and sensor and decouples RF between the sensor and the processor.
View attachment 127718
View attachment 127716
View attachment 127718
View attachment 127716
As I am Designer of Electronic Equipment, I say, that I would never give something like that to a Customer.From what I understand, soldering jumpers is just another uncertainty for reliability, because you never know about the patience/workmanship of a human. But again, I guess that's the charm of photographic gear back in the days where each aspherical element was polished by hand. Variation does introduce romance
A long Time ago, I did that - the Results were anything else but charming.
Everybody has to learn his lessen sometime....
Today it is easy to get Prototype-Boards manufactured in short Time. With these Boards I check for Functinality and Errors. When all is good -> Production starts - if not -> give it one more Try (Prototype-Board).
dave.gt
Well-known member
Well, once again. This thread is useless without real facts and without a response by Hasselblad if all cameras have such an untidy arrangement beneath the skin. Exactly what we are looking at in the photos is unclear if it is characteristic of any more or all X1D cameras, we don't know.
Has anyone questioned HB about this? I would be interested in their comments, even though I like the comment above regarding "handmade"!
I still want an X1D!!!
Has anyone questioned HB about this? I would be interested in their comments, even though I like the comment above regarding "handmade"!
I still want an X1D!!!
Grayhand
Well-known member
Once upon a time..
In the early eighties I was working as a radio engineer building and testing military radio for jet fighters.
A very large part of all connections was hand soldered and with an large amount of jumper cables.
Every radio was straped to a oscillating table and exposed to pathological levels of G-forcec for hours.
And the put in climate chambers, cycling from artic cold to tropical heat over and over again.
Our main problem was not manual soldered connections, it was mechanical connectors of different kind.
And I spot a number of those in both cameras…
But, you must of course know how to solder!
And I doubt that any of those cameras will have a harder life than a jet fighter.
So I wouldn't worry one bit because of those photos if I was an owner of the X1D.
Ray
In the early eighties I was working as a radio engineer building and testing military radio for jet fighters.
A very large part of all connections was hand soldered and with an large amount of jumper cables.
Every radio was straped to a oscillating table and exposed to pathological levels of G-forcec for hours.
And the put in climate chambers, cycling from artic cold to tropical heat over and over again.
Our main problem was not manual soldered connections, it was mechanical connectors of different kind.
And I spot a number of those in both cameras…
But, you must of course know how to solder!
And I doubt that any of those cameras will have a harder life than a jet fighter.
So I wouldn't worry one bit because of those photos if I was an owner of the X1D.
Ray
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The internet is a wonderful venue for the kind of posts that started this thread and are really nothing more than commercial disparagement, the intent of which is to damage a manufacturer by creating FUD about its products. Totally irresponsible. As soon as the OP was asked his source for his statement, described as a fact, not conjecture, he disappeared. He should be banned.
V
Vivek
Guest
May I point out one key good thing that Hasselblad has in their body compared to that of the "streamlined" arrangement of Sony?
Look at the separate chamber for the sensor. It is unlike the stacked sony configurations that can not take care of any heat dissipation from the sensor or the processor board.
Look at the separate chamber for the sensor. It is unlike the stacked sony configurations that can not take care of any heat dissipation from the sensor or the processor board.
glenerrolrd
Workshop Member
Seriously are we back to “ask Hasselblad “ ? You can t get a straight answer out of any of the equipment manufactures . It goes without saying that the original post was to highlight ..what looks like a work around in the camera design. Its a forum ....no one here has to prove anything . Consider the source and decide on your own . I believe he has a point . There is no value in demanding proof .Well, once again. This thread is useless without real facts and without a response by Hasselblad if all cameras have such an untidy arrangement beneath the skin. Exactly what we are looking at in the photos is unclear if it is characteristic of any more or all X1D cameras, we don't know.
Has anyone questioned HB about this? I would be interested in their comments, even though I like the comment above regarding "handmade"!
I still want an X1D!!!
Does the teardown surprise anyone ? HB was under severe pressure to release the X1D (confirmed by most every interview with H executives ) . Is that how you release a flawless product ..of course not . Don t you expect that the product will be greatly improved overtime .
Early adopters of new technology often get real challenges due to design compromises,inadequate testing and quality control . Does not imply that the New Stuff isn t worth the effort ...just go in understanding the trade offs .
The X1D sure looks like a winner to me and in a few years ....it may own its niche .
I agree that one needs to evaluate needs and desires and make changes based on a best estimate of where the truth lies ... as marketing always makes flowers out of manure ...
I just received a new X1D with the latest firmware ... not about to tear it apart to see what is inside but I can confirm that I have ... in two short days of shooting ... severe rain storms here as
can almost always be guaranteed with a new camera ... not one issue with cards settings or functionality.
Jumped out of all my other stuff to make this happen and was a bit concerned ... but I am seeing a bunch of good things with this camera.
Batteries and accessories are coming available ... I do believe that the rough start is smoothing out a bit.
I will be posting a bit in the MF forum ... as I have time to work through some files ... round trip of Phocus to LR into PS.
Seems to me to be worth the effort ... no scanning and spotting MF files from film.
Bob
glenerrolrd
Workshop Member
Am I missing something does this article seem cut short of any value ?
Agree, expected more info (words and photos).
Roger,
Thanks for posting the Wired UK article. Although short, it does substantiate the X1D body pronouncement "Handmade in Sweden." At this date, the where and how is still valued and important to our customers. As for the dissembling comparison, the aesthetics are characteristic of hand assembled and low production manufacturing, in the words Ove Bengston, Hasselblad Product Manager:
"...patches on the boards is nothing unique for us, ... works exactly the same as a re-designed board. I cannot say if this is a recent camera (shown) or an early pre-production unit."
Thanks,
Eric P.
I don't expect much in the way of actual information from Wired. They're sort of the People magazine of the tech sector.
stephengilbert
Active member
"Am I missing something does this article seem cut short of any value?"
It's like they left off the link to page two.
It's like they left off the link to page two.
ErikKaffehr
Well-known member
Hi,
I wouldn't really say that Sweden is known for great workmanship, rather for good industrial design.
At one time I have been working on an assembly line in Sweden, assembling chain saws. Everything made in Sweden was crap. All things coming from abroad was OK. We used Swedish screws, 15% was crap. Company switched to Spanish screws, 100% were OK. Crankshafts were made in Sweden, 10% were crap. Roll bearing were from FAG in Germany being 100% OK and cylinders were coming from Mahle in Germany also 100% OK.
Times have probably changed, but I guess that I would still prefer 'Well made in Thailand" compared to 'Hand made in Sweden'.
Best regards
Erik
I wouldn't really say that Sweden is known for great workmanship, rather for good industrial design.
At one time I have been working on an assembly line in Sweden, assembling chain saws. Everything made in Sweden was crap. All things coming from abroad was OK. We used Swedish screws, 15% was crap. Company switched to Spanish screws, 100% were OK. Crankshafts were made in Sweden, 10% were crap. Roll bearing were from FAG in Germany being 100% OK and cylinders were coming from Mahle in Germany also 100% OK.
Times have probably changed, but I guess that I would still prefer 'Well made in Thailand" compared to 'Hand made in Sweden'.
Best regards
Erik
I have anyhow no idea what they mean with 'handmade in Sweden'. The board must be soldered by a machine (hand soldering would be a catastrophe), the enclosure is obviously NC - not hand - machined and for the assembly an iPhone-like mostly robot assisted assembly certainly would be more reliable than hand assembly but might not be possible for the rather small production quantity.
But IMO the main drawbacks of the X1D are the various hardware issues (sub-optimal sensor heat dissipation, lack of joystick for AF point selection*, lack of shutter, battery size/ life time, no ultra sonic sensor cleaning) and the ongoing beta-status of the software (unacceptable slow start, slow response/ no response of certain touch screen actions, no response/ double response of dials, firmware crashes ...).
* I see the AF point selection by joystick to be now the standard for mirrorless cameras since introduced with Leica SL, Fuji X-T2 and GFX, Sony A9 and probably others
But IMO the main drawbacks of the X1D are the various hardware issues (sub-optimal sensor heat dissipation, lack of joystick for AF point selection*, lack of shutter, battery size/ life time, no ultra sonic sensor cleaning) and the ongoing beta-status of the software (unacceptable slow start, slow response/ no response of certain touch screen actions, no response/ double response of dials, firmware crashes ...).
* I see the AF point selection by joystick to be now the standard for mirrorless cameras since introduced with Leica SL, Fuji X-T2 and GFX, Sony A9 and probably others