Hasselblad X1D teardown - doesn't look very neat compared against Sony

[hcubell]

When you read "I was told that" then you should take it as a grain of salt, and not with that degree of hostility as if someone is doing damage to your faith. I still recall that in the X1D vs GFX thread where X1D performed much better in terms of long exposure you were a happy guy. The information was passed by whoever forwarded these tear-down pictures to me. It has been explained by others in this thread several times already - jumper wires are fixes implemented after production of PCB. If the camera in the OP is not an engineering sample, but instead, one in the first shipped batch for retail orders, then it means Hasselblad could not afford (time-wise or money-wise) to ship a batch with a revised design of PCB without jumper wires. I believe if Hasselblad has spare cash, then they could implement board-level fixes inside the PCB in later batches.

I don't think anyone should take with a "grain of salt" a statement that, if not true, amounts to commercial disparagement. And you apparently concede that you really don't know for a fact that it's true that Hasselblad did not redesign the PCB because it lacked the funds to do so. Let me suggest that you think twice before putting out what could be a defamatory statement without having a firm belief in its veracity.
This is NOT about the issue of jumper cables and what it may or may not mean for reliability. This is about smearing a small scale manufacturer by ascribing its use of jumper cables to rank hearsay that the reason why they used a few jumper cables was because they were on the verge of insolvency. The message was, of course, the jumper cables were a sign of inevitable product failure because Hasselblad only did it because they lacked the funds to redesign the boards.
The viability of niche manufacturers like Hasselblad, Phase One, Arca and others here that we support is not assured in this day and age. I care about all of them, even if I am not currently a customer. I really object to people who come into these forums under assumed names and smear them for reasons that we only guess at(but won't).

 

[rmatthews]

The tech in this thread is way beyond me but does anyone know when the camera that was disassembled was manufactured? I'm fairly certain there were hardware changes between the ones that dealers had in store a year ago for demos and the ones that began shipping to customers earlier this year (I tried them alongside eachother running the same firmware and there was quite a noticeable difference in speed of operation). Is it possible whatever "problem" the teardown unearthed has already been fixed?

 

[Bugleone]

voidshatter........So, one has to ask, WHO did send you these photos?.........WHY was this, not inexpensive item which is still under warranty, being 'destroyed' on a cluttered bench by someone who barely pushed aside the debris of previous destruction....WHY have you posted this here/now.......WHAT in fact, is your purpose with this strange business??......WHO are you?.......

.........Could this simply be a commercial disinformation operation?......are they Chinese fingers doing the 'examination' by any chance?

 

[Bugleone]

Voidshatter,.......HELLOOO!!....Anyone there?

.........Since you replied to another thread you could at least give me a reply here, if only for politeness....

 

[hcubell]

The tech in this thread is way beyond me but does anyone know when the camera that was disassembled was manufactured? I'm fairly certain there were hardware changes between the ones that dealers had in store a year ago for demos and the ones that began shipping to customers earlier this year (I tried them alongside eachother running the same firmware and there was quite a noticeable difference in speed of operation). Is it possible whatever "problem" the teardown unearthed has already been fixed?

One change that we know about is that Hasselblad originally designed the X1D to have an internal GPS module that would use an internal antenna right next to the hot shoe. In the GPS testing, they determined that there were problems with the adequacy of the GPS signal using the internal antenna. They had to switch gears and offer an external GPS module that mounts on the hot shoe.

 

[glenerrolrd]

voidshatter........So, one has to ask, WHO did send you these photos?.........WHY was this, not inexpensive item which is still under warranty, being 'destroyed' on a cluttered bench by someone who barely pushed aside the debris of previous destruction....WHY have you posted this here/now.......WHAT in fact, is your purpose with this strange business??......WHO are you?.......

.........Could this simply be a commercial disinformation operation?......are they Chinese fingers doing the 'examination' by any chance?

Here we go again ? HB responded and did not deny that the rewiring was real . When in doubt attack the credibility of the source .....:wtf:

Anyone with an once of experience knows this type of stuff happens all the time ...especially with new products . They also should know that low volume ,complex electronics are prone to flaws . This work around appears to be a reliability problem waiting to happen . Maybe it was an early production item ,maybe its been fixed , maybe none of it will matter .

 

[stephengilbert]

"When in doubt attack the credibility of the source ....."

Right; don't annoy the trolls.

 

[DBF]

Here we go again ? HB responded and did not deny that the rewiring was real . When in doubt attack the credibility of the source .....:wtf:

Anyone with an once of experience knows this type of stuff happens all the time ...especially with new products . They also should know that low volume ,complex electronics are prone to flaws . This work around appears to be a reliability problem waiting to happen . Maybe it was an early production item ,maybe its been fixed , maybe none of it will matter .

This happens - of course. But this is not, what I give to my Customers. It is easy to fix the Bugs with Routing-Software that every PCB-Designer has.

I am quite disappointed - I never had anything else but Hasselblads.

 

[hcubell]

Maybe it was an early production item ,maybe its been fixed , maybe none of it will matter .

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I guess I missed those qualifications in the OP. I think you apparently missed the totally gratuitous and apparently unfounded accusation that the reason for the jumper cables in the one unit of indeterminate origin that was depicted was because Hassleblad was financially unable to correct what, by implication, was a significant defect.
Now, here's what I always find interesting about these kinds of threads. The Voidshatterer doesn't own an X1D. You don't own an X1D. The few others who have posted here sounding all sorts of alarm bells don't own an X1D. I actually do. And the jumper cables are not something I am losing sleep over; way, way down the list. While I haven't done a poll, I tend to think that's true of the other X1D owners.

 

[tcdeveau]

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I guess I missed those qualifications in the OP. I think you apparently missed the totally gratuitous and apparently unfounded accusation that the reason for the jumper cables in the one unit of indeterminate origin that was depicted was because Hassleblad was financially unable to correct what, by implication, was a significant defect.
Now, here's what I always find interesting about these kinds of threads. The Voidshatterer doesn't own an X1D. You don't own an X1D. The few others who have posted here sounding all sorts of alarm bells don't own an X1D. I actually do. And the jumper cables are not something I am losing sleep over; way, way down the list. While I haven't done a poll, I tend to think that's true of the other X1D owners.

I've had mine about 3 months and have had no major issues. The only thing I'm starting to lose sleep over is how little I'm using it. As an A7RII and X1D owner, when it comes down to actually shooting with the X1D and A7RII, it is my A7RII that is the one sitting on the shelf gathering dust....

 

[jdphoto]

Hasselblad is not the only camera to get a look at its components. Camera geeks everywhere can't wait to do this to every camera. It's fun! Clearly fanboys are the one's who are making the boldest statements. I think they should lighten up a wee bit.

 

[jotloob]

Hasselblad is not the only camera to get a look at its components. Camera geeks everywhere can't wait to do this to every camera. It's fun! Clearly fanboys are the one's who are making the boldest statements. I think they should lighten up a wee bit.

Clear and true words .:thumbs: Thank you . These "fanboys" seem to have too much money . Is this a sign of degneration ?

 

[sog1927]

Clear and true words .:thumbs: Thank you . These "fanboys" seem to have too much money . Is this a sign of degneration ?

That's probably self-correcting.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I don't think a patch wire or two devalues a product. There are far more important things going into a camera design.

Cameras are assembled manually, mostly. There may be exceptions, but here is a video showing Sony A7rII assembly in Thailand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrv1xkMviS4
Not that many industrial robots on that assembly line...

Sweden used to be good at industrial design and I don't think there is anything wrong with the X1D. It is in all probability a fine picture taking machine. As someone pointed out it doesn't have a focal plane shutter and that rules out a lot of interesting things that could be done with a mirrorless MFD body.

But, one of the main attractions of the X1D are the lenses designed for it. It makes perfectly good sense to build small and high quality lenses for the 44x33 mm sensor.

I would guess that Hasselblad has found that building an EVF camera was far more difficult than expected. For some reason they had to drop the built in GPS, a great pity.

The great thing with firmware is that it can be improved, but it can take a lot of hard work. I guess that Hasselblad was a bit optimistic in that they hoped that they could just reuse the firmware from the digital back, but yielding live view feed and contrast detect AF raises the ribbon a bit.

Best regards
Erik

Eric

I have substantial experience in manufacturing of low volume electronics (volume below what makes sense for a robotic assembly). What escapes most casual observers ..is that an EVF /digital camera has virtually no mechanical components . There isn t much value in hand assembly ..its nothing like Leica M rangefinder or even HB s H bodies . Hand assembly of the HB V system meant a lot ....not so much in a electronic model like the X1D . Here its about in line quality control and managing the supply chain of outside vendors .

What gives the X1D its hand made feel is the quality of the externals ...the case ,knobs etc . The design is elegant . The materials feel first rate . Its simply a beautiful product .

The concern about the internal wiring should be obvious and it hurts HB credibility to quote ...”works the same way “ ....of course it does . But a connection thats part of the board is far less likely to break down over time . And you would never design it this way ...its an obvious retrofit to fix or improve something . Will be done away with at some point when they can move a new board into production . This is completely understandable and only highlights one of the areas that products get improved overtime .

I didn t need to see the tear down to know that the X1D most certainly has had engineering changes that would have been better caught earlier . Just a heads up that getting the first release of any new product can be an issue .

The only proof will be in the actual reliability of the X1D overtime . With communication thru forums ..,most product issues are identified and reported . Only time will tell .

Roger

 

[GrahamWelland]

Clear and true words .:thumbs: Thank you . These "fanboys" seem to have too much money . Is this a sign of degneration ?

suffering affluenza? :ROTFL:

Btw, whilst I'm not an X1d owner yet (I'm waiting on v2) I would care less about patch cables so long as the X1d performs. TBH, I'd be frightened to see what my IQ3100 circuit boards look like but performance is SUPERB as it darned well better be!!

 

[wpics]

Hi. Can you help with advice? How did you remove the display when disassembling X1D?

 

[JaapD]

Looking at the printed circuit board with its low level of integration density and truckload of analogue parts it looks like we’re going back in time for 15-20 years. Besides this the board looks like a prototype, not fit for commercial use. Some electronic experts here in this post have similar observations.

If this is state of art for HB themselves then it is what it is. In my opinion they should be ashamed for applying this in their top end product, but nobody bothers about my opinion, which is fine. If I were CEO of HB I would perform a SWOT analysis on the company, identifying that electronic circuit design is not part of its strength. The strength lies in the mechanics and optics department. I also think HB knows how to specify a good camera, but specifying is different from designing (and design for manufacture). Based on the weakness HB should outsource their electronic design and manufacture In order to become successful and survive.

In case you wonder what the negative side effects of such PCB design might be, let me name a few: limited reliability, limited possibility of adding functionality lateron (low digital programmable integration functionality), expensive on manufacturing hours (Design For Assembly is not part of it), expected warranty cases, customer dissatisfaction, etc.

Cheers,
JaapD.

 

[KC_2020]

Hi. Can you help with advice? How did you remove the display when disassembling X1D?

This thread was started in June of 2017 and the original poster hasn't been here since October of 2021. I doubt you're going to get a reply to your question from him.

 

[Thyl]

It appears that NCAB might be the manufacturer for PCBs for Hasselblad https://www.ncabgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/NCAB_Newsletter_Collection_150415_LR1.pdf , but I have no idea who designs them and who will do the part assembly on the PCBs.

 

[Godfrey]

Once upon a time in 1983, when the Macintosh development team was a pirate group working out of a couple of rented rooms apart from Apple's main buildings, Steve Jobs looked at a prototype main logic board and complained that "it looked messy." The engineer doing the design (can't remember his name at the moment) argued that it was necessary to look like that to get the electrical paths correct, but Jobs was adamant that it look neat and tidy. So the engineer relaid it out to make it look neat and satisfy Steve. Of course, it didn't work ... and he pulled the older prototype out from under the bench, put it on the test rig, and it worked perfectly.

Steve assented that 'working is better than looking good' and moved on to other things.

G