New Red Android cellphone works as display too. HDMI in?

[narikin]

Red just announced a new cellphone that doubles as a monitor for their cameras. It seems (...) it has HDMI input to use the display as a monitor, which will be great for IQ3 users, who can use this for focus check, rather than having to carry a separate monitor or Surface Pro type laptop:

https://m.dpreview.com/news/8702161...200-smartphone-with-a-5-7-holographic-display

(Not sure what the 'holographic' bit is about, but I'll take that with a pinch of salt!)

 

[tcdeveau]

I didn't see anywhere in the specs of catch in the threads on reduser.net where it specifically said HDMI so I wouldn't hold one's breath. Here's the PDF from RED: http://downloads.red.com/hydrogen.pdf

For the monitoring part, it only says Scarlet, Weapon, and Epic, and doesn't list Raven. The fact that they don't list all of their cameras as supported suggests to me that monitor support may not be as simple as an HDMI in but of course I could be wrong. They're also very clear with all of their products that "all specs are subject to change", so who knows how it will work in the end. I'm still going to keep an eye on it as I'll be in the market for a new cell phone starting this fall.

I'm more curious to see what they'll do with the modules. There's some suggestion that they'll bring their sensor tech to the device so I'm curious to see how/if/when they'll implement it.

 

[docmoore]

Red uses locking Lemo connectors for almost all of their connections ... and looks like the standard device has USB C .... so probably an
add on module and then a standard HDMI to Lemo.

But reality is it may be well into next summer before it is out and then perhaps another 6 months until you can get one.

Bob

 

[iiiNelson]

The phone is targeted as an accessory for the DSMC2 bodies but there are rumored camera modules coming. Not many details were released yesterday but I'm not in the preorder market for a $1200-1600 cellphone personally... and I really don't like Android OS either.

 

[docmoore]

Competing with Apple for a multi-billion dollar market ... they hope to capture the high end but Android is
not where I would invest my time or money.

Bob

 

[iiiNelson]

There's more to tell by the patent application filing than the press release PDF. I guess the big thing is still going to be whether Red sticks to the release window given their track record of being late to deliver most items.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/06/28/red-announcement-modular-camera-system-cellphone/

 

[iiiNelson]

Competing with Apple for a multi-billion dollar market ... they hope to capture the high end but Android is
not where I would invest my time or money.

Bob

I agree and as a premium cellphone the tech changes/improves so fast that I don't know that Red will successfully compete as a cellphone manufacturer. Perhaps it would make more sense to deliver the device with WiFi and Bluetooth radios and communicate through an app for users of iOS and Android. The holographic screen as a media player (like high end music players) is fine to be able to play holographic content but it's easier for people to integrate a device around existing hardware (computer, tablet, or phone) than their camera. As it is this is almost targeted exclusively to current Red owners or realistically potential ones until the modules are released which is 2018-2019 at best.

No telling where competitors will be then but I think this will be nothing more than a technological test bed for most.

 

[tcdeveau]

There's more to tell by the patent application filing than the press release PDF. I guess the big thing is still going to be whether Red sticks to the release window given their track record of being late to deliver most items.

Will the RED announcement on 6 July be a modular camera system with cellphone functionality? - Newsshooter

FWIW I'm a registered US Patent Agent and draft/prosecute patents daily. As many of you know, what is disclosed in the application may have little bearing on what actually makes it to market, and most of the language in the application is boiler plate type stuff that isn't really any more informative about the final product than the cryptic spec sheet they released yesterday. What they are actually trying to get protection for in the claims is a fairly generic device...a cell phone with detachable modules and a specific case configuration with a grip and a particular set of screws that extends through the case. The file history is publicly available on the USPTO, and the claims are overly broad IMHO and FWIW currently stand rejected by the USPTO. The application is also a continuation-in-part of a 2014 application (and if it is written properly includes all the disclosure of the 2014 application, which it should), so there may be more of interest in the 2014 application but I haven't read it yet.

The thing that interests me potentially most about the phone is a paragraph in the application that provides support for slapping a sensor with the specs of a RED Scarlet, Epic, or Weapon on or into the device. This is most likely just boiler plate taken from another one of their patents or patent apps as it stands, and there are most likely technical hurdles that would prevent them from doing this, but if they could pull off a module with a stills/motion sensor with current RED tech in a consumer product at a reasonable price that could fit in ones pocket, that would interest me very much. Of course as noted their delivery windows or lack thereof make it difficult to get excited about any of their products, and we may see the iPhone 9 or 10 before the base Hydrogen unit even starts shipping widely.

 

[iiiNelson]

FWIW I'm a registered US Patent Agent and draft/prosecute patents daily. As many of you know, what is disclosed in the application may have little bearing on what actually makes it to market, and most of the language in the application is boiler plate type stuff that isn't really any more informative about the final product than the cryptic spec sheet they released yesterday. What they are actually trying to get protection for in the claims is a fairly generic device...a cell phone with detachable modules and a specific case configuration with a grip and a particular set of screws that extends through the case. The file history is publicly available on the USPTO, and the claims are overly broad IMHO and FWIW currently stand rejected by the USPTO. The application is also a continuation-in-part of a 2014 application (and if it is written properly includes all the disclosure of the 2014 application, which it should), so there may be more of interest in the 2014 application but I haven't read it yet.

The thing that interests me potentially most about the phone is a paragraph in the application that provides support for slapping a sensor with the specs of a RED Scarlet, Epic, or Weapon on or into the device. This is most likely just boiler plate taken from another one of their patents or patent apps as it stands, and there are most likely technical hurdles that would prevent them from doing this, but if they could pull off a module with a stills/motion sensor with current RED tech in a consumer product at a reasonable price that could fit in ones pocket, that would interest me very much. Of course as noted their delivery windows or lack thereof make it difficult to get excited about any of their products, and we may see the iPhone 9 or 10 before the base Hydrogen unit even starts shipping widely.

I agree and I'd assume that the hydrogen will become the "brain" for the next generation of cameras that would provide updates to the next generation (and current generation) of sensors. I assume the modules would allow control of and features to be added to whatever tech becomes available to those in the Red ecosystem similar to what Sony attempted with PlayMemories integration in some of their cameras. It could work but then it could fail miserably for those not indoctrinated into the Red culture.

Red makes great cinema cameras but personally i son ally I prefer the Arri (and Panavision for that matter) look quite a bit more even if they don't offer the resolution of the Red Helium.

 

[foveon]

maybe they use technology like this

 

[iiiNelson]

Red just announced a new cellphone that doubles as a monitor for their cameras. It seems (...) it has HDMI input to use the display as a monitor, which will be great for IQ3 users, who can use this for focus check, rather than having to carry a separate monitor or Surface Pro type laptop:

https://m.dpreview.com/news/8702161...200-smartphone-with-a-5-7-holographic-display

(Not sure what the 'holographic' bit is about, but I'll take that with a pinch of salt!)

Would a SmallHD Focus be a better option since it's about the size of an iPhone+ model and only weighs 4 ounces without a Sony L mount battery for $500? There's a mini HDMI port but I believe it comes with cables for mini and full size HDMI.

 

[narikin]

Would a SmallHD Focus be a better option since it's about the size of an iPhone+ model and only weighs 4 ounces without a Sony L mount battery for $500? There's a mini HDMI port but I believe it comes with cables for mini and full size HDMI.

Oh, cool, I didn't know small HD had released a cheaper model. will look into it at B&H. Thanks

Of course it's annoying when you have a bright retina level display in your pocket already, not to be able to connect it up for a quick focus check, but instead spend $500+ on virtually the same thing... sigh.

(ps: please lay off maligning Android. It's not worthy of this forum, any more than maligning Windows users is. There's some really great phones out there, just like Apple makes too- Google is pretty amazing with it's OS too. Their 'partners' (carriers/manufacturers) may screw things up sometimes with bloatware, but don't blame Google for that!)

 

[iiiNelson]

Oh, cool, I didn't know small HD had released a cheaper model. will look into it at B&H. Thanks

Of course it's annoying when you have a bright retina level display in your pocket already, not to be able to connect it up for a quick focus check, but instead spend $500+ on virtually the same thing... sigh.

(ps: please lay off maligning Android. It's not worthy of this forum, any more than maligning Windows users is. There's some really great phones out there, just like Apple makes too- Google is pretty amazing with it's OS too. Their 'partners' (carriers/manufacturers) may screw things up sometimes with bloatware, but don't blame Google for that!)

You're welcome on the SmallHD Focus monitor information.

Also I was not saying AndroidOS is bad. It's a capable and more open platform without a doubt. I've owned a few Android based phones in the past so I was coming from personal experience. My wife hates iOS and prefers Android. I prefer the iPhone since it integrates a bit better into what I own and how I work software wise once they released larger screen sizes. It's just a mater of preference IMO.

 

[MrSmith]

i was expecting to see a phone with better than the current Apple/LG/samsung filming specs for a slightly premium price and maybe some kind of fast storage and a few lens modules or storage modules to pick from. to say i was underwhelmed is an understatement, and i’m not the only one who took one look at the press release and thought “is that it?”
the fanboys will lap it up but is this device really going to take the mobile phone world by storm? even in the world of photographers/film makers?

 

[iiiNelson]

i was expecting to see a phone with better than the current Apple/LG/samsung filming specs for a slightly premium price and maybe some kind of fast storage and a few lens modules or storage modules to pick from. to say i was underwhelmed is an understatement, and i’m not the only one who took one look at the press release and thought “is that it?”
the fanboys will lap it up but is this device really going to take the mobile phone world by storm? even in the world of photographers/film makers?

I think that is the general consensus of most non-Red Digital Cinema Camera users/owners. I think most people buying into the system will want to cross shop with competition and know what they'd spend $1200-1600 for. The premise (or threat depending on how you want to take it) of higher prices down the line did not jive well with me with so little information given after the level of "game changing" hype. I feel this may become a fancy add-on for Red people moreso than an industry game changer without understanding the direction of the project. I'm not one to put blind faith or invest into products that I don't know much about.