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Best Medium format system for long exposure?

Hausen

Active member
On digital I only really shoot long exposure. Primarily water and rocks. Now that people have had the two mirrorless MFD cameras for a while, does anybody here shoot primarily long exposure with either of these systems? I have been tempted by MF for awhile and the only thing I have seen written is that the Pentax 645z is stellar for long exposure. I am not to worried about its size more its age.

Is there a decent low noise MF option? Currently use Sony a7rII plus actus mini. Not perfect option because Sony not great for noise and hard to keep bellows light tight so maybe it is time for a change? Really appreciate any thoughts, always been in love with tech cam options as well.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
I think MF really shines for long exposures, especially compared to the A7RII. As others will chime in, CMOS-based MF (645z, X1D, GFX 50s, IQ1/350, IQ1/3100, Leaf Credo 50, H5D/H6D-50c, H6D-100c) will give better results that CCD-based MF, but CCD-based MF is still capable.

I used the 645z a little for long exposures and it worked great. I can DM you some samples if you want. I did up to 6 minute exposures.

I also really like using Hasselblads for long exposure, and have used previously an H4D-40 with up to 4 minute exposures and currently am using an X1D. I really like how the X1D implements long exposure, and it may be the best implementation of long exposure of any camera I've used to date. Not only is there no dark frame, but there's also a "finish exposure" option where you can just press a button to end the exposure early if you want, which comes in handy. The disadvantage of the X1D currently is there is no wired remote shutter release...on the flip side though, you never really have to use a "bulb" mode because the camera has selectable shutter speeds of over one minute up to one hour, which is also a really nice feature. On the 645z, if you want to do a 6 minute exposure, you have to do bulb mode, use a wired remote and a stopwatch, whereas on the X1D you just set the shutter speed for 6 minutes. The X1D also lacks an optical viewfinder, meaning one less path for stray light to hit the sensor when doing long exposures.

I don't have any experience with the Fuji GFX or with Phase/Leaf, but examples I've seen are most likely on par with results from the 645z and X1D, at least in terms of noise levels, although I've only seen web versions and not uncompressed files. I'm not sure about a dark frame on the GFX, and I think Phase only allows you to disable the dark frame if you're shooting on a tech cam. There may be other quirks of long exposure implementation between MF manufacturers I'm forgetting about. The 645z is going to be the best budget-friendly option (especially since used bodies can be found under $5k, and older film-era lenses are cheap), but if you're thinking tech-cam, Phase or GFX plus Cambo Actus may be the way to go.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Any of the current implementations of the 50MP CMOS will work very well. However the 645z at base ISO is going to a bit hard to better IMO. That camera does excellently in this type of shooting.

The Phase IQ150 and 250 will not allow the dark frame to be disabled as far as I know, and possibly on the IQ350. The IQ3100 will allow it on a tech camera as previously pointed out, but not sure on the IQ100 (no ES and Wifi). The dark frame is really still a factor on the 3100 as if you change the shutter speed, then the camera will fire at least one, then should allow remaining exposures without. Not allowing this on the XF just amazes me totally.

IMO the dark frame issue on the entire Phase Product line is something that needs to be revisited by P1. I fully understand that P1 wants the best possible image quality, but leave it up to the end users please. Attempting to work with a IQ3100 in a long series of early morning shots, is very taxing. Having to wait for a full extra 30 seconds for the dark frame is something I would rather not do. And for a 30 second exposure at base ISO, there should only be nominal noise anyway. The ability to turn off the dark frame should be a simple process for P1 to implement in firmware, but for some reason their heads stay firmly in the sand on this.

The GFX has both the timer feature like the X1D and a Bulb setting. You can use a standard intervalometer on the GFX via the mic port where the N90 Fuji remote plugs in. The camera also allows timed interval shooting, like the P1 XF, however currently the selectable shutter speeds are a bit limited. Hope to see a firmware update to improve on this.

One other note, if you are going to work Long exposures on the GFX, (you can turn off the dark frame), I would strongly recommend using C1 (process is very simple to open the files), as LR's current process can add more noise, worse if you are over base ISO of 100.

As I remember the GFX also has the "kill" switch but I need to check on that, the XF with a P1 back does for sure.

Paul Caldwell
 

Hausen

Active member
I think MF really shines for long exposures, especially compared to the A7RII. As others will chime in, CMOS-based MF (645z, X1D, GFX 50s, IQ1/350, IQ1/3100, Leaf Credo 50, H5D/H6D-50c, H6D-100c) will give better results that CCD-based MF, but CCD-based MF is still capable.

I used the 645z a little for long exposures and it worked great. I can DM you some samples if you want. I did up to 6 minute exposures.

I also really like using Hasselblads for long exposure, and have used previously an H4D-40 with up to 4 minute exposures and currently am using an X1D. I really like how the X1D implements long exposure, and it may be the best implementation of long exposure of any camera I've used to date. Not only is there no dark frame, but there's also a "finish exposure" option where you can just press a button to end the exposure early if you want, which comes in handy. The disadvantage of the X1D currently is there is no wired remote shutter release...on the flip side though, you never really have to use a "bulb" mode because the camera has selectable shutter speeds of over one minute up to one hour, which is also a really nice feature. On the 645z, if you want to do a 6 minute exposure, you have to do bulb mode, use a wired remote and a stopwatch, whereas on the X1D you just set the shutter speed for 6 minutes. The X1D also lacks an optical viewfinder, meaning one less path for stray light to hit the sensor when doing long exposures.

I don't have any experience with the Fuji GFX or with Phase/Leaf, but examples I've seen are most likely on par with results from the 645z and X1D, at least in terms of noise levels, although I've only seen web versions and not uncompressed files. I'm not sure about a dark frame on the GFX, and I think Phase only allows you to disable the dark frame if you're shooting on a tech cam. There may be other quirks of long exposure implementation between MF manufacturers I'm forgetting about. The 645z is going to be the best budget-friendly option (especially since used bodies can be found under $5k, and older film-era lenses are cheap), but if you're thinking tech-cam, Phase or GFX plus Cambo Actus may be the way to go.
Thank you that is exactly what I wanted to hear about the X1D. As an early adapter of the Sony a7rII I didn't discover the thermal noise issues until I was already using it. Was worried the X1D might suffer the same because of its size so I thought I would wait. The GFX-Actus is not really practical because it is really hard to keep the bellows light tight. I currently carry some black out fabric that I fix around the Actus bellows but this is just makes even more susceptible to the wind and with most of my shooting being coastal that is an issue. Love the Actus though but not so much for LE.
 

Hausen

Active member
Any of the current implementations of the 50MP CMOS will work very well. However the 645z at base ISO is going to a bit hard to better IMO. That camera does excellently in this type of shooting.

The Phase IQ150 and 250 will not allow the dark frame to be disabled as far as I know, and possibly on the IQ350. The IQ3100 will allow it on a tech camera as previously pointed out, but not sure on the IQ100 (no ES and Wifi). The dark frame is really still a factor on the 3100 as if you change the shutter speed, then the camera will fire at least one, then should allow remaining exposures without. Not allowing this on the XF just amazes me totally.

IMO the dark frame issue on the entire Phase Product line is something that needs to be revisited by P1. I fully understand that P1 wants the best possible image quality, but leave it up to the end users please. Attempting to work with a IQ3100 in a long series of early morning shots, is very taxing. Having to wait for a full extra 30 seconds for the dark frame is something I would rather not do. And for a 30 second exposure at base ISO, there should only be nominal noise anyway. The ability to turn off the dark frame should be a simple process for P1 to implement in firmware, but for some reason their heads stay firmly in the sand on this.

The GFX has both the timer feature like the X1D and a Bulb setting. You can use a standard intervalometer on the GFX via the mic port where the N90 Fuji remote plugs in. The camera also allows timed interval shooting, like the P1 XF, however currently the selectable shutter speeds are a bit limited. Hope to see a firmware update to improve on this.

One other note, if you are going to work Long exposures on the GFX, (you can turn off the dark frame), I would strongly recommend using C1 (process is very simple to open the files), as LR's current process can add more noise, worse if you are over base ISO of 100.

As I remember the GFX also has the "kill" switch but I need to check on that, the XF with a P1 back does for sure.

Paul Caldwell
Thanks Paul, the dark frame is certainly an issue for me as well. The thought of standing on a rock for 2-6 minutes waiting for that to complete after I had already waited that time for the shot would is not something that I could deal with.

On the Pentax I had an option to get a 645z when I moved to the Sony but I got impatient while waiting for the 645 owner to come up with a price. Still regret that to this day:mad: My only concern with it is the age of the tech, same sensor as the X1D but the box around is a little dated.
 

algrove

Well-known member
I used a 645Z for a year or so and to this day I like those images even though I have moved on to an IQ3100. I never had issues with long exposures. Yes the body is larger than the mirrorless with similar sensor, but another way to look at it that its system is mature. It is hard to beat OVF to this day.
 

Hausen

Active member
I used a 645Z for a year or so and to this day I like those images even though I have moved on to an IQ3100. I never had issues with long exposures. Yes the body is larger than the mirrorless with similar sensor, but another way to look at it that its system is mature. It is hard to beat OVF to this day.
Thanks Al, what lens were you using with it? I am leaning towards the flexibility of the 28-45 zoom.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Thank you that is exactly what I wanted to hear about the X1D. As an early adapter of the Sony a7rII I didn't discover the thermal noise issues until I was already using it. Was worried the X1D might suffer the same because of its size so I thought I would wait. The GFX-Actus is not really practical because it is really hard to keep the bellows light tight. I currently carry some black out fabric that I fix around the Actus bellows but this is just makes even more susceptible to the wind and with most of my shooting being coastal that is an issue. Love the Actus though but not so much for LE.
I've owned the A7R, A7RII, X1D, and 645z (and for a brief period had em all at the same time). The A7RII was prob my least favorite of any of the cameras I've used to date for long exposures. I really love the X1D, but if you're thinking about one, I'd definitely try to try one out first before purchasing. It still can be a little quirky, and lens selection is more limited compared to other options, although they did just start shipping a lot of the XH adapters. The XH adapter also lacks a tripod collar, so additional lens stabilization may be warranted if using HC/HCD lenses on the X1D and doing long exposures. They seem to have a lot of future lens options in the pipeline to fill out a lens lineup, but the price point and availability are big question marks. Regarding thermal noise, the body itself acts as a giant sink which may help mitigate thermal noise.

I agree with Paul it really is head scratching why Phase hasn't a user-defeatable dark frame for long exposure. It would just take a simple firmware update unless there's something in the hardware architecture that necessitates it. Yes, there may be trade-offs in image quality, but considering the results I've gotten from Hasselblad and Pentax which don't use a dark frame, any reduction in image quality should be marginal...especially with the CMOS sensors of the today. Phase, if you are listening, this is probably the one thing that keeps me from investing in a Phase system. After getting used to no dark frame, I can't envision myself ever going back, and waiting in between shots for the dark frame to finish is not only an annoying PITA, but can cause you to miss shots in quickly changing light (ie sunrise, sunset, etc) and can cause issues in quickly changing weather scenarios.

FWIW on the 645z I used the 28-45mm, 45-85mm FA, and 80-160mm. They were all great. Disadvantage of the 645z/28-45mm combo is it's very large and heavy. The 45-85mm FA and 80-160mm FA are no-brainers IMHO since they can be found for less than $500 USD each. They lack some of the saturation and contrast of more modern lenses, and require more sharpening than I normally apply, but deliver stellar results considering the price point. A lot of the Pentax 645 A/FA lenses have a great price/performance ratio. If you're concerned about the "box" being old with the 645z, the 645z actually operates more like a 35mm dSLR than comparable MF systems, and in some ways is more advanced in the context of MF cameras. The weather sealing is also great (at least on the 645z and 28-45mm), batteries last much longer than they do on the X1D (and are much cheaper at only $50 each, and 3rd party batteries are even cheaper), and there are some other neat tricks the 645z has up its sleeve....for example there are IR sensors on the front and the rear of the camera, so you can trigger the shutter with a cheap IR transmitter from behind the camera and forgo a wired remote. It also has dual SD card slots which can be assigned to mirror one another, which I find very handy in the field when traveling and something the X1D (and maybe the GFX?) currently can't do.

There were only two things that really concerned me about the 645z. While it's built like a tank, I was worried about service if I ever needed it. There's only one US authorized service center, who told me they do not service non-US market 645z's. I bought my 645z second hand and did not know the country of origin, and Pentax could not tell me what the market of origin was based on the serial number. If it did ever need service, I'm not sure what I would've done. I also question Pentax/Ricoh's commitment to the system at this point but that's only conjecture on my part. For a long time they have had a new 45-85mm and 80-160mm on their 645 roadmap for announcement/delivery in 2017 or later, but I haven't heard or seen anything further. I asked them point blank about it on social media a few months ago and got no response. With the age of the 645z, I'd also expect new camera rumors, and haven't seen anything on that front as well.
 

Hausen

Active member
I've owned the A7R, A7RII, X1D, and 645z (and for a brief period had em all at the same time). The A7RII was prob my least favorite of any of the cameras I've used to date for long exposures. I really love the X1D, but if you're thinking about one, I'd definitely try to try one out first before purchasing. It still can be a little quirky, and lens selection is more limited compared to other options, although they did just start shipping a lot of the XH adapters. The XH adapter also lacks a tripod collar, so additional lens stabilization may be warranted if using HC/HCD lenses on the X1D and doing long exposures. They seem to have a lot of future lens options in the pipeline to fill out a lens lineup, but the price point and availability are big question marks. Regarding thermal noise, the body itself acts as a giant sink which may help mitigate thermal noise.

I agree with Paul it really is head scratching why Phase hasn't a user-defeatable dark frame for long exposure. It would just take a simple firmware update unless there's something in the hardware architecture that necessitates it. Yes, there may be trade-offs in image quality, but considering the results I've gotten from Hasselblad and Pentax which don't use a dark frame, any reduction in image quality should be marginal...especially with the CMOS sensors of the today. Phase, if you are listening, this is probably the one thing that keeps me from investing in a Phase system. After getting used to no dark frame, I can't envision myself ever going back, and waiting in between shots for the dark frame to finish is not only an annoying PITA, but can cause you to miss shots in quickly changing light (ie sunrise, sunset, etc) and can cause issues in quickly changing weather scenarios.

FWIW on the 645z I used the 28-45mm, 45-85mm FA, and 80-160mm. They were all great. Disadvantage of the 645z/28-45mm combo is it's very large and heavy. The 45-85mm FA and 80-160mm FA are no-brainers IMHO since they can be found for less than $500 USD each. They lack some of the saturation and contrast of more modern lenses, and require more sharpening than I normally apply, but deliver stellar results considering the price point. A lot of the Pentax 645 A/FA lenses have a great price/performance ratio. If you're concerned about the "box" being old with the 645z, the 645z actually operates more like a 35mm dSLR than comparable MF systems, and in some ways is more advanced in the context of MF cameras. The weather sealing is also great (at least on the 645z and 28-45mm), batteries last much longer than they do on the X1D (and are much cheaper at only $50 each, and 3rd party batteries are even cheaper), and there are some other neat tricks the 645z has up its sleeve....for example there are IR sensors on the front and the rear of the camera, so you can trigger the shutter with a cheap IR transmitter from behind the camera and forgo a wired remote. It also has dual SD card slots which can be assigned to mirror one another, which I find very handy in the field when traveling and something the X1D (and maybe the GFX?) currently can't do.

There were only two things that really concerned me about the 645z. While it's built like a tank, I was worried about service if I ever needed it. There's only one US authorized service center, who told me they do not service non-US market 645z's. I bought my 645z second hand and did not know the country of origin, and Pentax could not tell me what the market of origin was based on the serial number. If it did ever need service, I'm not sure what I would've done. I also question Pentax/Ricoh's commitment to the system at this point but that's only conjecture on my part. For a long time they have had a new 45-85mm and 80-160mm on their 645 roadmap for announcement/delivery in 2017 or later, but I haven't heard or seen anything further. I asked them point blank about it on social media a few months ago and got no response. With the age of the 645z, I'd also expect new camera rumors, and haven't seen anything on that front as well.
Thanks for crystallizing my thoughts on that as well. I rang Ricoh here in New Zealand and they were surprised they still were involved in photography. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence. Looks like it is the X1D which is the one I wanted from the start anyway:D

Trialled the GFX the other day and the work around required on RAWs would annoy me greatly.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
One thing hat would concern me on the X1D is the lack of wired remote.

I realize it has a timer but having to hit the shutter each time would not fit my work flow. Just got back from a long night shoot after some lightening and it was nice to have the remote to fire the camera. Frees you up a bit. But that is how I prefer to work.

Paul Caldwell
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Thanks for crystallizing my thoughts on that as well. I rang Ricoh here in New Zealand and they were surprised they still were involved in photography. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence. Looks like it is the X1D which is the one I wanted from the start anyway:D

Trialled the GFX the other day and the work around required on RAWs would annoy me greatly.
No problem! Good luck with everything

Paul2660 said:
One thing hat would concern me on the X1D is the lack of wired remote.

I realize it has a timer but having to hit the shutter each time would not fit my work flow. Just got back from a long night shoot after some lightening and it was nice to have the remote to fire the camera. Frees you up a bit. But that is how I prefer to work.

Paul Caldwell
Lack of a wired remote is annoying, for sure, and lack of one at launch was a big oversight IMHO. It's especially annoying considering that the more expensive H-series can use $5 generic canon-protocol remotes with an 1/8" minijack, which is an easy and readily availbale solution. Supposedly they are aware this something that ppl want and it's coming. Hitting the shutter manually on long exposures obviously isn't ideal but with care it's not an issue. The Phocus mobile app can be used for triggering the shuttering when you need it. Using the app with the X1D is quirky, and although I haven't updated to the latest firmware, something that needs work but will work to trigger the camera. I've been curious to see if a pocket wizard or something can trigger the camera through the hot shoe as it's a common Nikon standard, but haven't tried yet.
 

Uaiomex

Member
Amazing post so full of good information and first-hand experiences, thank you.
I am aiming this year or next to buy higher-end gear as currently I only own apsc mirrorless cameras.
I am looking for the best IQ LE camera I can afford but that rules out the X1D. A new GFX or 645Z would be a real effort to buy but perhaps worth it unless buyers remorse comes.
A used 645Z sounds attractive but as some people are, a bit worry of its age and apparently lack of new glass coming.
My question here would be if you have some first-hand experience with the Nikon 810 doing long exposures. Based on your experience with these MF cameras, how would you compare the 810?
I expect the 850 to be at least as good as the 810 in the LE and hi-iso departments. Of course it will be much cheaper to buy a body and 2 top nocht lenses.
Could you further comment taking into consideration the Nikon option, please?
Canon is out of the question till further notice because the sensors are ancient. Sony could be a superb option if they fix the star-eater problem and glitched raws in upcoming A7's and 9's.
TiA
Eduardo


I've owned the A7R, A7RII, X1D, and 645z (and for a brief period had em all at the same time). The A7RII was prob my least favorite of any of the cameras I've used to date for long exposures. I really love the X1D, but if you're thinking about one, I'd definitely try to try one out first before purchasing. It still can be a little quirky, and lens selection is more limited compared to other options, although they did just start shipping a lot of the XH adapters. The XH adapter also lacks a tripod collar, so additional lens stabilization may be warranted if using HC/HCD lenses on the X1D and doing long exposures. They seem to have a lot of future lens options in the pipeline to fill out a lens lineup, but the price point and availability are big question marks. Regarding thermal noise, the body itself acts as a giant sink which may help mitigate thermal noise.

I agree with Paul it really is head scratching why Phase hasn't a user-defeatable dark frame for long exposure. It would just take a simple firmware update unless there's something in the hardware architecture that necessitates it. Yes, there may be trade-offs in image quality, but considering the results I've gotten from Hasselblad and Pentax which don't use a dark frame, any reduction in image quality should be marginal...especially with the CMOS sensors of the today. Phase, if you are listening, this is probably the one thing that keeps me from investing in a Phase system. After getting used to no dark frame, I can't envision myself ever going back, and waiting in between shots for the dark frame to finish is not only an annoying PITA, but can cause you to miss shots in quickly changing light (ie sunrise, sunset, etc) and can cause issues in quickly changing weather scenarios.

FWIW on the 645z I used the 28-45mm, 45-85mm FA, and 80-160mm. They were all great. Disadvantage of the 645z/28-45mm combo is it's very large and heavy. The 45-85mm FA and 80-160mm FA are no-brainers IMHO since they can be found for less than $500 USD each. They lack some of the saturation and contrast of more modern lenses, and require more sharpening than I normally apply, but deliver stellar results considering the price point. A lot of the Pentax 645 A/FA lenses have a great price/performance ratio. If you're concerned about the "box" being old with the 645z, the 645z actually operates more like a 35mm dSLR than comparable MF systems, and in some ways is more advanced in the context of MF cameras. The weather sealing is also great (at least on the 645z and 28-45mm), batteries last much longer than they do on the X1D (and are much cheaper at only $50 each, and 3rd party batteries are even cheaper), and there are some other neat tricks the 645z has up its sleeve....for example there are IR sensors on the front and the rear of the camera, so you can trigger the shutter with a cheap IR transmitter from behind the camera and forgo a wired remote. It also has dual SD card slots which can be assigned to mirror one another, which I find very handy in the field when traveling and something the X1D (and maybe the GFX?) currently can't do.

There were only two things that really concerned me about the 645z. While it's built like a tank, I was worried about service if I ever needed it. There's only one US authorized service center, who told me they do not service non-US market 645z's. I bought my 645z second hand and did not know the country of origin, and Pentax could not tell me what the market of origin was based on the serial number. If it did ever need service, I'm not sure what I would've done. I also question Pentax/Ricoh's commitment to the system at this point but that's only conjecture on my part. For a long time they have had a new 45-85mm and 80-160mm on their 645 roadmap for announcement/delivery in 2017 or later, but I haven't heard or seen anything further. I asked them point blank about it on social media a few months ago and got no response. With the age of the 645z, I'd also expect new camera rumors, and haven't seen anything on that front as well.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
The D810 I have found to be a wonderful long exposure camera, I use it often for both Milky Way and star trail work, more on the later as the D810 cannot get the same clean files as my D750 past 1600.

For star trail work, I always work with moon illumination which keeps my ISO range from 200 to 800 max. Milky Way work can easily get to 2500 to 3200 (fast lens used).

For daylight work, again the D810 is wonderful keeping to base ISO to ISO 800, it does a great job. No saturation loss or massive amounts of noise.

Personally I have yet to find a CMOS MF camera that can hold up as well over time. The 50MP cameras do fine for a while but they will start to show noise faster than the D810 I assume due to heat build up, thus the dark frame becomes much more important. I hardly ever have dark noise turned ON with the D810, it's just that clean out of the gate. The CMOS MF cameras do very well for me as long as they are at base ISO to 200 maybe 400, but past that I feel that the noise increases make the image harder to work.

I have only tried the GFX a couple of times much past 2 minutes. If you go long with this camera then you need to consider C1 as LR just pull out way too much noise for my liking.

The Pentax K1 also does well in the long exposure work, however Pentax DID NOT fix the white dot issue which plagued the D800e (early versions, Nikon silently fixed later versions) and the D810 (which had a forma recall). C1 with it's single pixel noise reduction can do a great job on the white dots however and stuck pixels, LR currently can't handle either.

This shot was taken with a D810 and 14-24 lens (my main combination for night work) at around 17 to 20 seconds. (Did not want trails on this).

[/url]cw1 Alabama Hills night time no1 full B@W by paul caldwell, on Flickr[/IMG]

Paul Caldwell
 

JohnBrew

Active member
I've done LE with both my D810 and my CFV-50c. 30 minutes w/Nikon = 30 minutes dark frame or NR (not sure of the correct terminology)time. The CFV does some NR time after the exposure is finished and it varies but is no where near the time of the Nikon. For me, neither is a deal breaker. The results with both are excellent.
I do LE with both camera systems almost weekly. And I have a boat load of ND filters which are a mess to keep straight. I'll be going with a Nisi or Formatt slide in system soon.
 

Hausen

Active member
I've done LE with both my D810 and my CFV-50c. 30 minutes w/Nikon = 30 minutes dark frame or NR (not sure of the correct terminology)time. The CFV does some NR time after the exposure is finished and it varies but is no where near the time of the Nikon. For me, neither is a deal breaker. The results with both are excellent.
I do LE with both camera systems almost weekly. And I have a boat load of ND filters which are a mess to keep straight. I'll be going with a Nisi or Formatt slide in system soon.
I am interested to hear you thoughts on CFV-50c. I am currently bidding on a Horseman SW-D Pro II and my thought was if I got it, to get the CFV-50c. I am certainly leaning toward the X1D but could be swayed toward the tech cam route.
 

JohnBrew

Active member
David, love the X1D concept and it seems as if H'blad is taking care of the bugs. Pretty happy with what I have now. One of the great things about a tech cam is that I can also shoot film. Now that may not be your cup of tea...but I have been playing around with some film LE.

BTW, I just heard from Mat and he informs me I can turn off dark frame subtraction in camera (Nikon). I wasn't aware of this so willdefinitely give it a shot, so to speak ;).
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
David, love the X1D concept and it seems as if H'blad is taking care of the bugs. Pretty happy with what I have now. One of the great things about a tech cam is that I can also shoot film. Now that may not be your cup of tea...but I have been playing around with some film LE.

BTW, I just heard from Mat and he informs me I can turn off dark frame subtraction in camera (Nikon). I wasn't aware of this so willdefinitely give it a shot, so to speak ;).
Yep you can turn the dark frame off on the D810. I didn't do much LE work with the D810 when I had it, but I found performance on the D800E to be decent. I'm really curious to see how the D850 handles LE work, and to see if they come out with a D850A. Illuminated buttons and articulating screen by themselves are a much welcome improvement for Astro work:cool:
 

Hausen

Active member
David, love the X1D concept and it seems as if H'blad is taking care of the bugs. Pretty happy with what I have now. One of the great things about a tech cam is that I can also shoot film. Now that may not be your cup of tea...but I have been playing around with some film LE.

BTW, I just heard from Mat and he informs me I can turn off dark frame subtraction in camera (Nikon). I wasn't aware of this so willdefinitely give it a shot, so to speak ;).
Funny that is why I was looking at Tech Cam as well. The thought of being able to have one body in the bag and a film & digital back has long appealed. LE is for film is certainly a labour of love though. Me with film is more colour film and street art/graffiti and such.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Yes, for sure turn it off on the D810, as Nikon doesn't buffer and works just like P1. shoot 1 minute wait 1 minute.

Canon for years has buffered this process, which works very well.

Paul Caldwell
 

Hausen

Active member
Yep you can turn the dark frame off on the D810. I didn't do much LE work with the D810 when I had it, but I found performance on the D800E to be decent. I'm really curious to see how the D850 handles LE work, and to see if they come out with a D850A. Illuminated buttons and articulating screen by themselves are a much welcome improvement for Astro work:cool:
I was about to push the button on the X1D + 30mm and then the Nikon 850 is released to media. I am keen to see if any reviewers do anything in Long exposure area. Certainly will be bigger, better lens choice for sure but seems max shutter speed is 30s so will need a trigger.
 
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