Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advice

[etto72]

I really miss having a fast prime on my X1D, both for lowlight photography and especially to get shallower depth of field when shooting portrait

Currently I only see two solutions :

Buying a used HC 100mm 2.2 (I already have the H-X adapter)
or getting the Cambo Ca-XCD and using my Otus 85mm or/and 55 Otus which I still have


I am mostly concern about how sharp is the 100mm wide open and how usable would the Otus on X1D
Any opinion or advice ?

Many thanks for your help

 

[Speedgraphic]

Annnnnd this is why you should have bought a GFX. There is only the 100 2.2, which won't have AF, and will be too long for the sensor to use as a normal.

 

[hcubell]

I really miss having a fast prime on my X1D, both for lowlight photography and especially to get shallower depth of field when shooting portrait

Currently I only see two solutions :

Buying a used HC 100mm 2.2 (I already have the H-X adapter)
or getting the Cambo Ca-XCD and using my Otus 85mm or/and 55 Otus which I still have


I am mostly concern about how sharp is the 100mm wide open and how usable would the Otus on X1D
Any opinion or advice ?

Many thanks for your help

Ming Thein, who now works for Hasselblad, reviewed the various HC lenses back in 2016 and had this to say about the HC 100 f/2.2:
"Hasselblad HC 2.2/100 (6/10 or 10/10, with caveats) – Think of this as an f2.6 or f2.8 lens, and you’re okay. When it focuses, results are spectacular even at these apertures. f4 and upwards is blistering, but performance seems to fall off after f8. F2.2 is best described as ‘portrait soft’, even with critical focus achieved. Quite a bit of longitudinal and lateral CA, but goes away on stopping down. The problem is focus isn’t consistently achieved – I suspect it’s because the focus box covers a much larger area and range of subject distances than the actual focal plane. In any case, precision of autofocus seems to be the one thing holding this lens back from greatness (at least in my opinion)."
I guess the issues with AF he notes would not be a problem today with the X1D, as there wouldn't be any AF.

 

[bab]

Ming Thein, who now works for Hasselblad, reviewed the various HC lenses back in 2016 and had this to say about the HC 100 f/2.2:
"Hasselblad HC 2.2/100 (6/10 or 10/10, with caveats) – Think of this as an f2.6 or f2.8 lens, and you’re okay. When it focuses, results are spectacular even at these apertures. f4 and upwards is blistering, but performance seems to fall off after f8. F2.2 is best described as ‘portrait soft’, even with critical focus achieved. Quite a bit of longitudinal and lateral CA, but goes away on stopping down. The problem is focus isn’t consistently achieved – I suspect it’s because the focus box covers a much larger area and range of subject distances than the actual focal plane. In any case, precision of autofocus seems to be the one thing holding this lens back from greatness (at least in my opinion)."
I guess the issues with AF he notes would not be a problem today with the X1D, as there wouldn't be any AF.

Hasselblad is due for either an upgrade on many of their lenses or some new lightweight fast AF lenses. Any excuses you hear from product development as to how or why the current lenses resolve the 100mp back easily is total bullshit! They know it's possible to make better glass, it's possible to make a tilt-shift without 1.5x magnification, it's possible to make lighter weight zoom lens. I own the 100 mm and I want (I'm going to) send it in for service the AF is not consistently good? There are many things that could-should be done with the line not sure why Hasselblad doesn't make those things happen but it's SAD!

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Using the Otus with an adapter you would still be stuck with electronic shutter with 0.3 s scan time.

Other than that Jim Kasson has tested the Otus 85/1.4 on GFX. It has some corner fall off:

Otus 85 on GFX, Otus 55 on a7RII — square images

Using the Otuses you have with your existing system or the Sony A7rII may be your best option if you want Otus like image quality at large apertures, all depending on your needs, of course.

Best regards
Erik

Ps. Jim Kasson is most helpful. why not ask him.

I really miss having a fast prime on my X1D, both for lowlight photography and especially to get shallower depth of field when shooting portrait

Currently I only see two solutions :

Buying a used HC 100mm 2.2 (I already have the H-X adapter)
or getting the Cambo Ca-XCD and using my Otus 85mm or/and 55 Otus which I still have


I am mostly concern about how sharp is the 100mm wide open and how usable would the Otus on X1D
Any opinion or advice ?

Many thanks for your help

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It takes a few years to design a lens. I would also suggest that Hasselblad may focus on developing new lenses for the X-system rather than for the H-system.

I would also guess that Hasselblad wanted compact lenses for the X1D. That sort of leaves the shooters longing for a very high quality/high speed lens in a dark hole.

It is feasible we will se some adapters for other lenses, now that the X1D offers electronic shutters. That would allow for Pentax, Contax, Mamiya, Bronica lenses to be adopted.

Check this thread, BTW: https://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium...cks/61251-best-adapted-lenses-gfx-system.html

Best regards
Erik

Hasselblad is due for either an upgrade on many of their lenses or some new lightweight fast AF lenses. Any excuses you hear from product development as to how or why the current lenses resolve the 100mp back easily is total bullshit! They know it's possible to make better glass, it's possible to make a tilt-shift without 1.5x magnification, it's possible to make lighter weight zoom lens. I own the 100 mm and I want (I'm going to) send it in for service the AF is not consistently good? There are many things that could-should be done with the line not sure why Hasselblad doesn't make those things happen but it's SAD!

 

[DB5]

The X1D's critical failure is its lenses. To me it's face to palm scenario.

If you can use what there is then you are obviously very happy.

But I can't imagine we are going to see fast lenses for the X1D with the current shutter situation.

It seems to me a very critical and potentially fatal omission that there is no fast standard. Perhaps the delay in having any standard is because of this.

But add the terrible bokeh of the current leaf assembly into the mix and I'm not sure I'd want the X1D for fast lenses anyway.

:banghead: What a missed opportunity Hasselblad has.

 

[hcubell]

Re: Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advic

The X1D's critical failure is its lenses. To me it's face to palm scenario.

If you can use what there is then you are obviously very happy.

But I can't imagine we are going to see fast lenses for the X1D with the current shutter situation.

It seems to me a very critical and potentially fatal omission that there is no fast standard. Perhaps the delay in having any standard is because of this.

But add the terrible bokeh of the current leaf assembly into the mix and I'm not sure I'd want the X1D for fast lenses anyway.

:banghead: What a missed opportunity Hasselblad has.

I could not disagree more. Thankfully, Hasselblad has stayed the course so far with the design of its lenses for the X1D. The X1D is all about its form factor... small, light and portable. If Hasselblad is to produce relatively small and light lenses in keeping with the essential form factor of the body, the lenses will necessarily be slower. Fast lenses are always bigger lenses. Moreover, the X1D is so capable at higher ISOs, the loss of a stop or two with a lens is not such a big deal. Of course, if you want very thin DOF, that is a problem. I am struggling with how to maximize DOF, often by shooting multiple frames at different focus points.
If you want a system with big, heavy and fast lenses, buy a DSLR. There are lots of options out there.
BTW, there is today no "delay" in the release of a standard lens for the X1D. Hasselblad announced a 65mm lens for the X1D last February, and said it would be released in 2018. There was no mention of specs, so we don't know if it will be a faster lens such as an f2 or a much smaller f2.8 or f3.2.

 

[dave.gt]

Re: Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advic

I could not disagree more. Thankfully, Hasselblad has stayed the course so far with the design of its lenses for the X1D. The X1D is all about its form factor... small, light and portable. If Hasselblad is to produce relatively small and light lenses in keeping with the essential form factor of the body, the lenses will necessarily be slower. Fast lenses are always bigger lenses. Moreover, the X1D is so capable at higher ISOs, the loss of a stop or two with a lens is not such a big deal. Of course, if you want very thin DOF, that is a problem. I am struggling with how to maximize DOF, often by shooting multiple frames at different focus points.
If you want a system with big, heavy and fast lenses, buy a DSLR. There are lots of options out there.
BTW, there is today no "delay" in the release of a standard lens for the X1D. Hasselblad announced a 65mm lens for the X1D last February, and said it would be released in 2018. There was no mention of specs, so we don't know if it will be a faster lens such as an f2 or a much smaller f2.8 or f3.2.

Thanks, Howard,

We attended a family visitation last evening for an elderly family member who passed on Monday. Much hand wringing and much discussion about what should have been and could have been. Yet, I saw not one person who was celebrating the life of the wonderful man who did the best he could in his life.

Photographers!... take note, better yet, make awesome photographs, tell amazing stories and share the beauty of this world to make it better one frame, one person, one conversation at a time.

I would rather see amazing work with the lowliest of cameras/lenses than to read negativity on a forum. Life is far too short and far too harsh to miss the opportunity to capture and share the beauty in our world all around us.

 

[DB5]

Re: Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advic

I could not disagree more. Thankfully, Hasselblad has stayed the course so far with the design of its lenses for the X1D. The X1D is all about its form factor... small, light and portable. If Hasselblad is to produce relatively small and light lenses in keeping with the essential form factor of the body, the lenses will necessarily be slower. Fast lenses are always bigger lenses. Moreover, the X1D is so capable at higher ISOs, the loss of a stop or two with a lens is not such a big deal. Of course, if you want very thin DOF, that is a problem. I am struggling with how to maximize DOF, often by shooting multiple frames at different focus points.
If you want a system with big, heavy and fast lenses, buy a DSLR. There are lots of options out there.
BTW, there is today no "delay" in the release of a standard lens for the X1D. Hasselblad announced a 65mm lens for the X1D last February, and said it would be released in 2018. There was no mention of specs, so we don't know if it will be a faster lens such as an f2 or a much smaller f2.8 or f3.2.

I said if you could use the lenses you would be obviously happy.

None of this is valid for my uses. Existing fast medium format lenses are small. 2 extra stops of ISO does not replace a fast lens. I have a 35mm camera with fast lenses (actually they are tiny too) - I want a medium format camera with fast lenses. A year with no standard = delay.

 

[DB5]

Re: Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advic

Thanks, Howard,

We attended a family visitation last evening for an elderly family member who passed on Monday. Much hand wringing and much discussion about what should have been and could have been. Yet, I saw not one person who was celebrating the life of the wonderful man who did the best he could in his life.

Photographers!... take note, better yet, make awesome photographs, tell amazing stories and share the beauty of this world to make it better one frame, one person, one conversation at a time.

I would rather see amazing work with the lowliest of cameras/lenses than to read negativity on a forum. Life is far too short and far too harsh to miss the opportunity to capture and share the beauty in our world all around us.

I would rather see amazing work with what ever equipment suits the style of the photographer personally. it could be "lowly" or "exotic". If it's what the photographer wants and it suits their work then where is the issue? I agree the value of the gear has little impact on the photography. No one is disputing that here though and I'm not sure why you would bring that up on a gear centric forum called "medium format systems and digital backs".

An opposing opinion from someone with different needs/wants does not equal negativity and it doesn't mean they want any less to "make awesome photographs, tell amazing stories and share the beauty of this world to make it better one frame, one person, one conversation at a time"

The very reason I want and need a fast lens on a medium format camera is to express the very thing in my own way.

 

[hcubell]

Re: Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advic

I said if you could use the lenses you would be obviously happy.

None of this is valid for my uses. Existing fast medium format lenses are small. 2 extra stops of ISO does not replace a fast lens. I have a 35mm camera with fast lenses (actually they are tiny too) - I want a medium format camera with fast lenses. A year with no standard = delay.

Instead of complaining about the fact that the X1D is not what it was never intended to be, just buy a GFX. It offers a wonderful 110mm f2 lens. To Fuji's credit, that f2 lens weighs the same as the X1D 120mm f3.5 Macro. Very cool that it was able to engineer that.

 

[DB5]

Re: Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advic

Instead of complaining about the fact that the X1D is not what it was never intended to be, just buy a GFX. It offers a wonderful 110mm f2 lens. To Fuji's credit, that f2 lens weighs the same as the X1D 120mm f3.5 Macro. Very cool that it was able to engineer that.

Or I could do as what is perfectly acceptable on a public forum about gear and talk about what I would like and hope to see.

Discussion doesn't have to only flow in one direction.

 

[hcubell]

Re: Fast prime for the Hasselblad X1D: please I need an advic

Or I could do as what is perfectly acceptable on a public forum about gear and talk about what I would like and hope to see.

Discussion doesn't have to only flow in one direction.

Sorry, I thought you wanted a solution, not a polemic about the X1D.

 

[jdphoto]

It's a slippery slope when opinions are mocked or discredited in an open forum. Opinions are not based on fact or knowledge. There just viewpoints based on a particular needs of the individual. Fanboys melt like snowflakes and set a precarious precedent for debate. The apprehension that comes from participating is obvious, but the association one may have to that antagonist might deem their input invalid in many situations. Let's exchange ideas...not attitudes.

 

[siddhaarta]

I would consider the Milvus 135mm and Milvus 85mm, both fast lenses.

According to Ming, these work fine with the 33x44 sensor. Obviously you rely on e-shutter and have to wait for the Nikon-adapter. I heard from Novoflex that they are already working on X1D adapters.

 

[hcubell]

It's a slippery slope when opinions are mocked or discredited in an open forum. Opinions are not based on fact or knowledge. There just viewpoints based on a particular needs of the individual. Fanboys melt like snowflakes and set a precarious precedent for debate. The apprehension that comes from participating is obvious, but the association one may have to that antagonist might deem their input invalid in many situations. Let's exchange ideas...not attitudes.

To circle back to the original post, the OP asked for advice on a couple of options for a fast lens to use on the X1D HE ALREADY OWNS, referencing both the HC 100 f2.2 and the Otus 85mm. I specifically addressed his request for assistance by pointing him to a blog that discussed the pluses and minuses of the 100mm f2.2 What happened next happens all too often. Someone with no experience or advice to offer but has an axe to grind jumps in and announces that the "critical failure" of the X1D is its lenses and Hasselblad "blew it." Nobody should have any reluctance to participate and help someone who asked for advice, but they should hesitate if all they want to do is ignore the request for advice and tell the OP that Hasselblad blew it with the camera system the OP just paid a ton of money to buy. I respect the choices that others make, and expect the same from others. I think that's the way it should work.

 

[hcubell]

I would consider the Milvus 135mm and Milvus 85mm, both fast lenses.

According to Ming, these work fine with the 33x44 sensor. Obviously you rely on e-shutter and have to wait for the Nikon-adapter. I heard from Novoflex that they are already working on X1D adapters.

Any issues with the e-shutter in shooting portraits. Small head movements or eyes blinking?

 

[tcdeveau]

Any issues with the e-shutter in shooting portraits. Small head movements or eyes blinking?

If I were the OP, I'd ask Ming Thein. He's pretty responsive on Facebook. Ming showed some pics with the X1D and Zeiss lenses of concert performers which look like they were taken indoors in dark lighting, which is often challenging light to shoot in. I was under the impression scanning time of the electronic shutter wasn't such a big deal based on those examples.

As to the OP's question, it's a tough call. The Cambo adapter will be the cheaper way to go than the 100mm 2.2, but there appear to be some compromises (such as vignetting, corner falloff, and manual-focus only). Going the adapter route will also provide more options than the 100mm 2.2. I'd also check in on the Facebook GFX group, as there are tons of ppl over there using adapted lenses, and I'd expect the experience between adapted lenses on the GFX and X1D to be somewhat similar. The 100mm 2.2 may have other advantages down the line, like AF, but I wouldn't bet on this becoming a reality at this point until Hasselblad actually releases the firmware (which they seem to be committed to doing). If it were me, I'd probably go with the adapter for now because OP already has a few lenses he can use and it will open the opportunity to use others, even if there are compromises.

 

[etto72]

To circle back to the original post, the OP asked for advice on a couple of options for a fast lens to use on the X1D HE ALREADY OWNS, referencing both the HC 100 f2.2 and the Otus 85mm. I specifically addressed his request for assistance by pointing him to a blog that discussed the pluses and minuses of the 100mm f2.2 What happened next happens all too often. Someone with no experience or advice to offer but has an axe to grind jumps in and announces that the "critical failure" of the X1D is its lenses and Hasselblad "blew it." Nobody should have any reluctance to participate and help someone who asked for advice, but they should hesitate if all they want to do is ignore the request for advice and tell the OP that Hasselblad blew it with the camera system the OP just paid a ton of money to buy. I respect the choices that others make, and expect the same from others. I think that's the way it should work.

Thanks!!
I had an extended search on Ming Then post regarding adopting Otus lenses on the X1D, I saw some great pics from a live concert on his Instagram page taken with the 55mm and 85mm
https://www.instagram.com/p/BYPH1S7nE93/?taken-by=mingthein

Then I also found this wonderful post of a GFX user using the 85 Otus

The rendering looks absolutely spectacular !!

From what Ming Thein writes the HC 100mm 2.2 seems to be a really good lens from 2.6 - 2.8.... for me this is still way too slow and not much faster from the 90mm which I own.

I think I may go for Cambo adapter, its very expansive but probably worth it!

Thanks to all
Ettore