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How to Remove Half the Features of a P0h

dchew

Well-known member
And how to adjust minimum ball tension, all while probably killing your warranty in the process.

I really want to like the Arca Swiss P0h. It has almost everything: Light weight, pan top, compact fast movement AND precise gear driven control. Two things I don’t like, one that it doesn’t have and one that it does:
  • I wish it had a panning base on the bottom.
  • I wish it didn’t have the ball and associated skinny stem.
Mine is usually mounted on a RRS TVC-24L. I just don’t use the P0h that much, instead reaching for the Cube on my TVC-34L. The real reason it sits home is stability concerns around that long skinny post. But here’s the thing: I have the series 2 leveling base mounted on the 24L. That base gives some adjustment features that, in most normal-use cases, make the bottom ball-part of the P0h redundant. So, I had an idea. Graham can guess and cringe where this is going...

If only I could separate the two parts! I could mount the goniometer part directly onto the RRS leveling base. I would lose the ability to tilt more than 30 degrees (geared range plus leveling base range). But I can’t remember the last time I needed to tip the camera up or down more than 30 degrees. I would still miss the panning base and could add one from RRS, but that kills the real weight advantage of this head. So I will do without a panning base.

Off I went: it turns out it is relatively easy to separate the two halves. Start by turning the big silver ring all the way to loosen the ball. Remove 4 screws holding the bottom aluminum flange (Philips head):


This looks a little intimidating, but those lock pins lift right out:


These funny looking nuts are what adjust the tension setting. Here is the main reason for my post: If you want less play in the ball when you fully loosen the ring, you can disassemble the bottom flange to this point. Remove the three lock pins and simply tighten each of the three nuts up a notch or two. They are reverse threads, so that means rotating them counter-clockwise a notch to tighten. Do them evenly to keep clamp pressure even on the ball. Put the pins back in and check it. Rinse and repeat as much as necessary. Just remember to put the pins back in every time before you tighten the big silver ring. If you forget, the nuts can spin as you tighten, and you will then have to readjust them as best you can.

But of course, I wanted to keep going! Once you figure out the funny looking nuts are reverse thread, they just spin right off. Here is a poor close pic with the nut removed:


Once you get all three nuts removed, the black plastic piece comes right off, along with the ball. Then you will find three screws buried down in those half-holes. This is the trickiest part of the process. Turns out those screws are #6-40 screws with 5/64 hex head. Be careful not to strip the head because they use white locktite on these screws. Ask me how I know…


Once those three screws are off, that’s it. Here are all the pieces strewn about. Notice all the protective goop (technical term) on the gear assembly:


And here are the two halves of my assistant after my "sawing the box in half" magic trick, with the original screws back in their threads:


I won't be using the bottom half at all. My plan is to make the part below in delrin or aluminum. Three holes through this piece for the original #6-40 screws, mounted into the base of the goniometer (top half) using the original threads. The center hole will be 3/8-16 to accept the RRS TH-DVTL-40 plate that attaches to the leveling base.


More to come…
 
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JonMo

New member
the leveller is available. you can take a look at mine in "the great tripod and head thread"
I agree with Dave. I didn't like the P0 part of the hybrid.
Just would not have had the nerve to take it apart myself!

You brave soul.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
The real reason it sits home is stability concerns around that long skinny post.
Dave, this is probably too late as you have already taken it apart, but do you have any evidence that the post has a flexure a problem? I have a Pentax 645D and 300mm lens ride on a P0, and the post on the head is not a problem. In fact, if I were going to recommend a stable ball head, it would be the P0. The fact it is also one of the most compact is just a bonus. Granted, if I was traveling in the wilderness, a Cube and associated tripod would be better for six-pack abs.
 

dchew

Well-known member
Hey Will,
I don’t have hard evidence or direct comparisons. What I think I’ve noticed is an increased sensitivity to light and moderate wind compared to the Cube. That is easy to say, and structurally makes sense, but may be impossible to quantify.

There have been times when looking through live view the image moves around in what I think of as light wind that I haven’t noticed with the cube. I am sure part of it, if true at all, is related to the 24L vs 34L. I may never find out for sure, but it makes me think, “why risk it,” so I keep reaching for the Cube.

What made me do this was the idea that I am not really losing any features I care about by doing this. The stability may be a figment of my imagination, but it gives me piece of mind. And I am losing a few ounces in the process!

Dave
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I bet if you took a cube and legs that weighed the same amount as a P0 and other legs, the P0 combo would be more stable. Lately, I've been using the P0 on Gitzo 3-series legs and it's a LOT more stable than anything on lighter legs.

Just an impression - no serious tests done...

-Matt
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Hey Will,
I don’t have hard evidence or direct comparisons. What I think I’ve noticed is an increased sensitivity to light and moderate wind compared to the Cube. That is easy to say, and structurally makes sense, but may be impossible to quantify.

There have been times when looking through live view the image moves around in what I think of as light wind that I haven’t noticed with the cube. I am sure part of it, if true at all, is related to the 24L vs 34L. I may never find out for sure, but it makes me think, “why risk it,” so I keep reaching for the Cube.

What made me do this was the idea that I am not really losing any features I care about by doing this. The stability may be a figment of my imagination, but it gives me piece of mind. And I am losing a few ounces in the process!

Dave
I understand. I need to have confidence in my equipment. I am sorry you did not gel with the P0H. It is also a really expensive way to get two goniometers. ;)
 

bab

Active member
I understand. I need to have confidence in my equipment. I am sorry you did not gel with the P0H. It is also a really expensive way to get two goniometers. ;)
Foregoing a electronic device to measure vibrations a long lens and live view gives you a peek at vibrations in actual time but then at caputure you can’t see vibrations because live view isn’t available. So I tend to agree that a tapered post or any thinner structure between tripod base and camera bottom would without doubt cause more vibrations. One way to test this out would be to capture sharp jagged rocks at a distance at a high shutter speed w different platforms on a windy day. Pixel peeping would reveal the answer one would think?
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I bet if you took a cube and legs that weighed the same amount as a P0 and other legs, the P0 combo would be more stable. Lately, I've been using the P0 on Gitzo 3-series legs and it's a LOT more stable than anything on lighter legs.

Just an impression - no serious tests done...

-Matt
I just did a test with my phone set on seismometer. The P0 on series 3 Gitzo at head height was WORSE than the Novoflex 4-section legs with just the tilting base and spring-loaded locking clamp. That latter combination won't tilt more than 15 degrees, but it sure is stable! This was with a Leica S and a 24/3.5 lens - about 6 lbs (2.7kg)

Huh.

Matt
 

D&A

Well-known member
Yikes! I'm gobsmacked. I've done some crazy s@#t with equipment and electronics, but this is beyond my level of insanity. I'm glad I love my p0 Hybrid and wish you good luck and Godspeed in your quest. And now with an Arca-Swiss leveler on the horizon, are you going to reassemble the p0h and wait for the leveler?

Joe
I haven't seen such a "Rube Goldberg" like approach as this since I tried turning an old manual tonearm Victrola turntable into an automatic one with a series of strings, pulleys and springs attached to turntable's lid as it opened and raised the tonearm (when I was 9 years old). After I trashed a whole bunch of LP's, I realized I should have simply waited till an automatic tonearm turntable was at my disposal. Lesson learned. :).

Joe, you possibly could have used the ":facesmack:" emoji in place of "gobsmacked". Nothing like a visual for situations like this. :).

Dave (D&A)
 

dchew

Well-known member
Yikes! I'm gobsmacked. I've done some crazy s@#t with equipment and electronics, but this is beyond my level of insanity. I'm glad I love my p0 Hybrid and wish you good luck and Godspeed in your quest. And now with an Arca-Swiss leveler on the horizon, are you going to reassemble the p0h and wait for the leveler?

Joe
Joe,
No I'm not going to reassemble this thing. If for no other reason than I'm on a quest to complete the task. I am also telling myself that this will end up being better because the piece I am making will fit right into the RRS dovetail plate. Well, and I don't have to pay for the leveler.

Does the leveler have a panning base on the bottom? That would put me into a state of depression.

Dave
 

D&A

Well-known member
Joe,
Does the leveler have a panning base on the bottom? That would put me into a state of depression.

Dave
Dave, maybe pick up a bottle of antidepressants. Have a look at the latest post in the Great tripod and head thread by RodK.

Dave (D&A)
 
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jng

Well-known member
I understand that retail therapy can sometimes help cure such bouts of depression. :ROTFL:
 

dchew

Well-known member
I understand that retail therapy can sometimes help cure such bouts of depression. :ROTFL:
John,
You need to keep quiet about my recent purchase investigations. Algrove may be watching...

Dave
 

JonMo

New member
I hate to tell you this Dave but YES, there is a panning setup on both the top and BOTTOM of the leveller.

Sorry about that.
 

dgmkd

New member
I wouldn't worry too much about the stability of the p0. I use mine with a Hasselblad Multishot back both in horizontal and vertical position without any issues.
 

dchew

Well-known member
FYI, I’ve asked for this thread to either be deleted or locked. Now that Arca-Swiss is offering the same thing I was trying to make and with a panning base to boot, this thread could lead others to a path of destruction, misery and depression.

It’s been fun though!

Dave
 

D&A

Well-known member
FYI, I’ve asked for this thread to either be deleted or locked. Now that Arca-Swiss is offering the same thing I was trying to make and with a panning base to boot, this thread could lead others to a path of destruction, misery and depression.

It’s been fun though!

Dave
Why Dave? This thread can go down in the Pantheon of great attempts at furthering the ambitions of human kind to a better and more productive life but unfortunately failed in some way. I wouldn't be surprised if your story and images are one day included in the video/film clips shown in the links provided below! Some of these ideas were ahead of their time while other were hair brain schemes. Only time will tell where history catalogs how your attempts fit in to furthering the cause of photographic equipment "mobility and stability on a tripod". Where would we all be if insightful and inventive people didn't attempt what's seemingly impossible? I for one applaud your ideas. The question is whether others will do so with one hand or two? :ROTFL: (All said in the spirit and jest of good fun).

(Links to video/film clips)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN-ZktmjIfE

Watch Edison's Failed Inventions Clip - Modern Marvels | HISTORY

Dave (D&A)
 
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