Leica S-E / S2 or something else

[fotografz]

I had a hurricane of issues with S lenses ... then it was suddenly calm, and has remained so for over a year now. That said, I do not own a S(007), but have no intention of getting one. My S(006) has been trouble free for over 4 years of use. If the sensor failed, I'd just buy another used one. I do not want a CMOS S and will hold out until I have to switch. If I find a cheap S2 in decent condition, I may pick it up as back-up. The early S2s suffered the cracked sensor issue. I've not heard of it on late S2s, the SE, or S(006).

IMO, IF you shoot portraits the big optical viewfinder and S-100/2 are THE reasons to own a S system ... unless you use strobes outdoors on a regular basis. Then a CS lens may serve you better.

The Hasselblad HC lenses work well on the S but are a tad slower focusing ... the HC-50/3.5 MK-II, 100/2.2 (some fringing), 150/3.2N, and 210/4 look good with the S sensor. The H lenses work with the dual shutter system of the S allowing higher sync speeds with strobes, and focal plan shutter speeds in bright ambient up to 1/4000 which is not possible with a Hasselblad camera body.

The Contax-645 lenses 55mm, 80mm, 120mm Macro, and 350mm are the best optics for look and feel. IMO, the rest are "meh" on the S. None of them offer higher sync speeds with lighting, and you are stuck with 1/125th top sync speed rather than 1/1000 with the CS lenses or 1/750th with the Hasselblad HC and HCD lenses.

I have used many cameras including different MF cameras and digital backs ... none of them provided what the S and S/CS lenses do for my eye and aesthetic biases. Because of that, I have suffered Leica's horrible US Service debacle. I think they are finally doing something about it. We'll see.

- Marc

 

[daf]

That's funny how people always come to sell you another camera
I came here to get sometips regarding the S system, and i get suggested to go for Canon 5dsr, Pentax 645Z, Fuji GFX ... all thoses suggestion are very kind.
But if i'm looking at the S it is because : I want a big and good OFV not an EVF ... I want an easy holding camera, not a huge one ... i want a simple camera, not a computer with a lens in front

 

[DB5]

That's funny how people always come to sell you another camera
I came here to get sometips regarding the S system, and i get suggested to go for Canon 5dsr, Pentax 645Z, Fuji GFX ... all thoses suggestion are very kind.
But if i'm looking at the S it is because : I want a big and good OFV not an EVF ... I want an easy holding camera, not a huge one ... i want a simple camera, not a computer with a lens in front

That's funny how you forget what your title was. Leica S-E / S2 or something else

Do you realise the S2 is a digital camera and computer with a lens in front of it?

Sounds like what you want is an M3.

 

[Paratom]

Short answer, No.

Longer answer, Nooooooo.

Anything S has to go back to Germany. A Pro in the US with a very close Leica relationship might get loaner equipment during repair, but nothing is fast.

Matt (I have an S being evaluated for repair costs. The local dealership was very good about shipping it off to Wetzlar, but I’m not expecting to hear anything for a long time. )

I really do not get why Leica doesn't succeed to imrove it. Everyday there are planes going from US to Germany and back. So why should a repair from US take more than 2 additional days compared to a repair from Germany? OK, add a little customs paperwork, lets say 1 additional week. But several months?

 

[daf]

That's funny how you forget what your title was. Leica S-E / S2 or something else

Do you realise the S2 is a digital camera and computer with a lens in front of it?

Sounds like what you want is an M3.

I apologyze if i offense you, this was not my intention.

Regarding the M3, you're not too far away
I have a Leica MD since 20month ... and really LOVE IT ... Just need to find it's MF pendant ...

 

[MGrayson]

I really do not get why Leica doesn't succeed to imrove it. Everyday there are planes going from US to Germany and back. So why should a repair from US take more than 2 additional days compared to a repair from Germany? OK, add a little customs paperwork, lets say 1 additional week. But several months?

Oh, there's no logical reason for it, but corporate cultures and ensconced management are difficult to change - especially if the people at the top are happy with it the way it is. It works both ways, oddly. My friend had $100K of Leica equipment on loan for a shoot, and it took Leica months to send him a return shipping authorization!

I hear other differences about Leica's view of US clients vs. European. They don't understand our fixation with MP. It reminds me of BMW and cup-holders. They really couldn't believe that anyone would would be so irresponsible as to drink coffee while driving. Of course, they thought their AC was sufficient until management visited Arizona and were driven around with the AC at full blast in 115 degree heat.

--Matt

 

[glenerrolrd]

I feel my experience with the S has been pretty good overall. The S2 went back once because I used a Screen protector that ate in to the LCD and they discovered a issue with the sensor . The 2nd time it was discovered when I had decided to trade it in . In both cases I was seeing nothing in my files . I was only without the S2 once in four years and it never had an issue while I was using it .

The S 006 and S 007 have not had a single problem .

The lenses ...about half failed under testing at the dealer with my new S 007 body . The other half were fixed at no cost to me as preventative maintenance . They were all turned around in under 6 weeks being sent to Germany .

My friends have not all been this lucky and yes I had two difficult negotiations to get fair treatment on my s2 .

Points I was trying to make :

1. The CCD sensor is prone to failure (just like the m9) and this can result in a very long out of service situation .

2. Service when needed is SLOW and can be very EXPENSIVE ...without a good dealer you have zero leverage .

3. The AF gear fails with amazing regularity ..even on brand new lenses .

The S system for me is worth it and is now right were I want to be .....

 

[DB5]

I apologyze if i offense you, this was not my intention.

Regarding the M3, you're not too far away
I have a Leica MD since 20month ... and really LOVE IT ... Just need to find it's MF pendant ...

None taken, we can all have a laugh I hope :chug:

M3 is wonderful, the MD too. If you want the S and can accept the issues and gamble then go for it you might be lucky. It takes nice pictures.

Just from reading you though, no i'm trying trying to sell you anything have you thought about a Hasselblad CFV-50c? Or a Contax 645? They both feel like film cameras.

 

[kparseg]

That's funny how people always come to sell you another camera
I came here to get sometips regarding the S system, and i get suggested to go for Canon 5dsr, Pentax 645Z, Fuji GFX ... all thoses suggestion are very kind.
But if i'm looking at the S it is because : I want a big and good OFV not an EVF ... I want an easy holding camera, not a huge one ... i want a simple camera, not a computer with a lens in front

What's the problem then? Pick up Leica S and enjoy it. It seems like you made up your mind a while ago, so I'm not sure why you're asking for any suggestions here.

 

[daf]

What's the problem then? Pick up Leica S and enjoy it. It seems like you made up your mind a while ago, so I'm not sure why you're asking for any suggestions here.

I apologyze, if this offense you, this was not my intention....
But maybe you can take a minute to read my first post, and them you'll see that you're right, from the first post, it is pretty clear that i made my mind on the S system....
My questions was about S sensor problem, S2 vs s006, and all about S warranty.

 

[mjr]

I absolutely loved my S, had a 006 and 007, sure there were some issues but you can forgive a lot for the files. I'm in Europe and have an excellent dealer, never once was I without a camera when something went wrong, next day I'd have a loaner body and lenses whilst mine was being fixed, Leica even took both bodies when I had a lens problem as well as all my lenses in order to check the whole system and gave me loan kit for everything, all delivered next day.

My advice would be to go for it, make great images and enjoy the system, for studio work I'd stick with the 006 and dive in to those beautiful files, very easy camera to use and the lenses are superb, I only had a couple of lens issues, strangely with brand new lenses, both replaced immediately so wasn't fussed. I can't comment onthe US service but EU with a good dealer was great.

Enjoy it!

Mat

 

[rsmphoto]

Short answer, No.

Longer answer, Nooooooo.

Anything S has to go back to Germany. A Pro in the US with a very close Leica relationship might get loaner equipment during repair, but nothing is fast.

Matt (I have an S being evaluated for repair costs. The local dealership was very good about shipping it off to Wetzlar, but I’m not expecting to hear anything for a long time. )

Well, I'm an architecture pro here in the US, (registered as a pro with Leica Germany as well) and when my S006, 24, and 30-90 failed, my dealer immediately arranged for Leica US to replace it all with loaners (w/007!) while my equipment was serviced in Germany, so time down was a non-event. About as painless a service experience as I've ever had, and I've used Nikon, Canon, and Hasselblad over the years. Establish a solid dealer relationship. That's key.

 

[MGrayson]

Hmmm, I'm an architecture pro here in the US, (registered as a pro with Leica Germany as well) and when my S006, 24, and 30-90 failed my dealer immediately arranged for Leica US to replace it all with loaners (w/007!) while my equipment was serviced in Germany, so time down was a non-event. About as painless a service experience as I've ever had, and I've used Nikon, Canon, and Hasselblad over the years. Establish a solid dealer relationship. That's key.

Oh, I agree, as I said. My friend who shoots Leica professionally never has a down day. He got a cracked sensor on the job, decided its location wouldn't affect the rest of the shoot, and had a loaner the next day. It's different for us people whose relationship with Leica is merely spending money. :ROTFL:

--Matt

 

[rsmphoto]

Oh, I agree, as I said. My friend who shoots Leica professionally never has a down day. He got a cracked sensor on the job, decided its location wouldn't affect the rest of the shoot, and had a loaner the next day. It's different for us people whose relationship with Leica is merely spending money. :ROTFL:

--Matt

Alas, I agree. There really should not be any dichotomy here. :salute:

 

[siddhaarta]

Well, I'm an architecture pro here in the US, (registered as a pro with Leica Germany as well) and when my S006, 24, and 30-90 failed, my dealer immediately arranged for Leica US to replace it all with loaners (w/007!) while my equipment was serviced in Germany, so time down was a non-event. About as painless a service experience as I've ever had, and I've used Nikon, Canon, and Hasselblad over the years. Establish a solid dealer relationship. That's key.

Question: so do you have/pay the LPP (Leica Protection Plan) or did you get this pro-treatment without paying the LPP (only registering as pro)?

 

[rsmphoto]

Question: so do you have/pay the LPP (Leica Protection Plan) or did you get this pro-treatment without paying the LPP (only registering as pro)?

The camera came with 3 year warranty, but the lenses were covered under the policy on the auto focus issue. The entire problem was generated by the auto focus malfunction, thus Leica, taking no chances, requested that I send the camera body back as well the lenses to be fully checked.

 

[siddhaarta]

The camera came with 3 year warranty, but the lenses were covered under the policy on the auto focus issue. The entire problem was generated by the auto focus malfunction, thus Leica, taking no chances, requested that I send the camera body back as well the lenses to be fully checked.

This is what Leica says about the LPP:

"Even cameras with the legendary reliability and long working life of Leicas may one day require maintenance or repair. However, the Leica Protection Plan guarantees that owners of Leica S technical equipment have no need to worry. It grants extended warranty benefits for another two years after expiry of the first year from the date the product was purchased.*

These include, for instance, that Leica Service in numerous regions around the world will arrange the loan and delivery of replacement equipment within 24 hours. This ensures that the availability of a professional camera is guaranteed at all times. A once-only inspection including cleaning and adjustment is a part of the Leica Protection Plan package, as is a replacement of the shutter if this should become necessary for technical reasons.

The Leica Protection Plan for S Cameras (LPP Body) and S Lenses (LPP Lens, LPP Vario Lens, LPP CS Lens) can be acquired within the first 12 months from the original purchase date and thereby extend the warranty to a term of three full years.

* Or up to 100,000 shutter cycles (Leica S (Type 006) and Leica S-E) / 150.000 shutter cycles (Leica S (Type 007)), depending on which comes first."

Seems you have it (3 years extended warranty) and it includes a loaner in case of repairs, but it is not clear to me what it costs extra.

 

[Bernard]

Daf,

It sounds like you live in Europe, so you can ignore all the horror stories about Leica USA service. They had a big logistics problem last year, but that thread has died, so they may have solved it.
Europeans report getting great service from Wetzlar and from their local dealers.

If you are shooting portraits, the S-E is preferable to the S2, because it is faster. If you were shooting landscapes then it wouldn't matter.

I love my S-E. It had an issue out of the box, which took 3 months to resolve, but it's been totally reliable since. I have shot tens of thousands of images in all kinds of weather, including a huge sudden summer shower that soaked me to the core. The images from that shoot were fantastic, and the camera only needed a quick wipe with a lens cloth.

 

[rsmphoto]

Seems you have it (3 years extended warranty) and it includes a loaner in case of repairs, but it is not clear to me what it costs extra.

The 3 year warranty was included with the normal price of the camera. There was no additional charge for the 3 year warranty.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I have been shooting with a Leica S and S2 since 2012. Neither camera have had any major problems, other than the first S2, which had AF accuracy issues. They replaced the body right away. The S006 had the strap eyelet start to come out. Otherwise it has been six years of professional shooting in the Arctic without issue. I am still using the original batteries in both cameras with zero issues. I have six lenses and one had an AF failure (the 45mm). I sent in the 45 and 180. The rest are unfixed and still going strong...the 120, 35 and 70mm are all six years old, while the 180 and 30-90 are four or five. I realize I should have sent them in, but it is hard for me to deal with the downtime.

My experience with service has been largely very good. I am registered as a pro, but there is no official dealer in Iceland, so I have dealt directly with service. I had one issue with the GPS and they solved it one on one with me by writing a custom firmware. I was impressed by that. Regarding results, I still have not seen anything better from any camera. I use the A7RII for video, and I have clients using the Phase One cameras. So far, I have not seen better files. I am not sure if this is because the S lenses are so good, or if it is just that there is a synergy between the CCD sensor and the Leica processing, but I work as an exhibition printer and I have never seen digital files that are better than the S006/S2. That includes the S007 and newer cameras. I have not seen every camera, but most of the Phase stuff I have seen has suffered from lenses that were soft in the corners or shot so there was diffraction, but that could be how those artists were shooting. I am sure they are capable of great things with the best glass and used at optimal apertures. I have heard good things about the Pentax and GFX, but have not used them myself. This is just a personal opinion, and I could not care less about defending it. You either see it or you don't. The only thing I see that looks better on a regular basis is properly shot, processed and scanned 4x5 or 8x10 film. .