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Leica SL or Fuji GFX 50

rollsman44

Well-known member
I know that the lenses for the SL have had some motor failures ( I believe so). I owned the GFX for a few monrths and liked it a lot. Easy to use and the lenses were excellent and so was the IQ. The Fuji Lenses are definitely cheaper than the Leica lenses for the SL
I mainly shoot portraits and social events BUT not that often anymore. So, the camera will be mainly for my personal use.
I am thinking the SL will drop in price again in the next few months. How much maybe not enough to justify it.
My question is which is worth buying ? I would need only 2 lenses : 1 wide angle and 1 for portraits.
I might even consider Manual Focus lenses to save money. Mainly the Portrait lens only for MF. Depends on which lenses are Just as good as the Leica SL lenses but less money. I appreciate any suggestions
 

D&A

Well-known member
Hi Dennis. We have to catch up sometime soon. In response to one of your questions, there are no reported motor issues or failures with the Leica "SL" lenses whatsoever. That only pertained with the Leica "S" lenses. Of course Leica "S" lenses can be fitted to the SL body if so desired.

As for other non "SL" lenses mounted on the SL body, there is a world of excellent lenses that can be used, including almost all Leica and other brand M mount lenses with an adapter. I'll defer to others who own the SL who have far more experience in this regard.

Dave (D&A)
 

rollsman44

Well-known member
Hey Dave, how are you ? How are things by you? You are a great guy with LOTS of Knowledge and a valuable member on this forum. Will catch up to you soon. Thanks for the reply. Dennis
 

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
I have owned an M-P and i do now own a monochrom typ246(which i love)
but i simply cant except leica gear to be professional, leica took it way too long to fix the occasional crashing of the 240series.

the SL is a good camera nonetheless, the viewfinder is outstanding. but i also criticize leicas choosing of the sensor supplier, (presumably still cmosis) , 1 min max exposure on a cmos sensor is simply ridiculous!
i do not know if they fixed that on the SL, but i doubt it.

Fuji on the other hand is a professional tool and the company regularly releases new FW updates to improve the capabilities of their cameras.

also, 24mp vs. 50mp

as well...think about the stories of the technical support of Leica, if you have an issue expect to not see your leica gear for several months without a loaner.



just my 2 cents
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

As far as I know, the sensors on new Leicas are not based on the CMOSIS design but come from TowerJazz: http://www.jazzsemi.com/cmos-image-sensor.html

Best regards
Erik





I have owned an M-P and i do now own a monochrom typ246(which i love)
but i simply cant except leica gear to be professional, leica took it way too long to fix the occasional crashing of the 240series.

the SL is a good camera nonetheless, the viewfinder is outstanding. but i also criticize leicas choosing of the sensor supplier, (presumably still cmosis) , 1 min max exposure on a cmos sensor is simply ridiculous!
i do not know if they fixed that on the SL, but i doubt it.

Fuji on the other hand is a professional tool and the company regularly releases new FW updates to improve the capabilities of their cameras.

also, 24mp vs. 50mp

as well...think about the stories of the technical support of Leica, if you have an issue expect to not see your leica gear for several months without a loaner.



just my 2 cents
 

DB5

Member
I can't get excited about the Fuji pictures. They don't look too far away from a 35mm camera in terms of colour and tonality to me. Personally I would buy the Hasselblad before the Fuji which I've been really impressed by so far.

The only Leica I couldn't have recommend in the recent past is the S but it seems they've resolved all the issues now. Leica has proved to be an honourable company who have looked after their customers, despite much huffing and puffing from the internet might otherwise suggest. The times I've needed customer service they've been there and while I can't vouch for everyone's own experiences, mine were always very good.

I"ve not read anything negative about the SL except for the usual "Leica is over priced" crap.
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I just set my SL for a 30 minute exposure. I think Vieri regularly shoots longer.

These are very different cameras with very different strengths and weaknesses.

--Matt
 

Bernard

Member
These are very different cameras with very different strengths and weaknesses.
Indeed. The main thing they have in common is price.

For portraits and social/event work, I would value the SL's speed, interface, and viewfinder over the GFX, but that's just me. The GFX does have a flipping finder and screen, which helps if you are taller than your subjects.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

If you are in search of maximum image quality, the GFX is hard to ignore.

  • The GFX has a healthy margin in DR - due to sensor size
  • The GFX has also very high resolution/microcontrast due to the larger sensor and excellent lenses.
  • The GFX also has the 50 MP albeit the lenses may be better matched by a 100 MP sensor, it seems.
But, the SL may be better in other areas like frame rate, focusing speed and so on. The SL probably works well with Leica M lenses. It probably also has a better viewfinder.

What is best for you depends on your needs. If you print at large sizes, it could be argued that more MPs are better than less MPs. I would guess that 100% of the time, the more MPs on a larger sensor are preferable to less MPs on a smaller sensor. No lens design can compensate for that.

But, if you print small, say A2 size maximum 24 MP works perfectly well. Going twice the linear size, I would say that more resolution is welcome.

If you don't have careful shooting techniques, those 50 MP may be hard to realize, anyway.

Best regards
Erik

I know that the lenses for the SL have had some motor failures ( I believe so). I owned the GFX for a few monrths and liked it a lot. Easy to use and the lenses were excellent and so was the IQ. The Fuji Lenses are definitely cheaper than the Leica lenses for the SL
I mainly shoot portraits and social events BUT not that often anymore. So, the camera will be mainly for my personal use.
I am thinking the SL will drop in price again in the next few months. How much maybe not enough to justify it.
My question is which is worth buying ? I would need only 2 lenses : 1 wide angle and 1 for portraits.
I might even consider Manual Focus lenses to save money. Mainly the Portrait lens only for MF. Depends on which lenses are Just as good as the Leica SL lenses but less money. I appreciate any suggestions
 

dj may

Well-known member
I cannot comment on the specifics of SL vs GFX, however I can on FF vs MF. For me the decision was SL vs S and I chose Leica S. I come for 4x5 view camera use and tonality and image quality are key factors. I am not saying that SL or other FF is not good, but that MF is much better. I also use Leica M-P 240. With FF one has better maneuverability, faster operation and a potentially smaller kit. Of course, it is possible to add more lenses and accessories in FF and end up with more stuff in an equally large kit.

In the film days I knew guys that pushed slow 35mm film to the limits to obtain the highest level of detail and tonality possible. They did quite well but could not match medium format. The situation is similar with FF vs MF sensors.

You need to decide on the most important factors for you, such as maneuverability vs image quality.

Jesse
 

vieri

Well-known member
I just set my SL for a 30 minute exposure. I think Vieri regularly shoots longer.

These are very different cameras with very different strengths and weaknesses.

--Matt
Hey Matt,

the SL's long exposure limit is 30 minutes. You just went all in! :D I regularly shoot in the neighbourhood of 2-10 minutes, but I very rarely go "all in" myself...

Best regards,

Vieri
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Hey Matt,

the SL's long exposure limit is 30 minutes. You just went all in! :D I regularly shoot in the neighbourhood of 2-10 minutes, but I very rarely go "all in" myself...

Best regards,

Vieri
Vieri,

Oh, I was just testing the camera to refute the 1-minute max claim. I have not actually ever taken a longer than 2 minute exposure, myself. I'm too impatient :grin:

Best,

Matt
 

vieri

Well-known member
Vieri,

Oh, I was just testing the camera to refute the 1-minute max claim. I have not actually ever taken a longer than 2 minute exposure, myself. I'm too impatient :grin:

Best,

Matt
Matt,

I see! :D I do that all the time (the long exposures, not the testing), and use my second SL body to keep busy while the camera is doing its mandatory Long Exposure Noise Reduction (LENR) routine...

Best,

Vieri
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Except that with film we used similar films in all cameras.

With digital we may have different sensors in different cameras. Just as an example, it would be absolutely feasible to have a Nikon D850 or a Sony A7rII producing the same image quality as the Leica S, provided the lens was good enough.

The point could also be made that small medium format is not that much larger than 24x36 mm. In film times I was shooting 55x69 mm (Pentax 67), that had 4.4X the area of 24x36 mm film, or something like twice the linear size. The Leica S has an image area that is 1.56x the area of 24x36 mm or 1.25X the linear size. It is a larger sensor, but not much larger.

But, in the end, sensor resolution decides how much detail a camera can record. A sensor with 50 or 100 MP will be able to resolve more detail than a camera with 24 MP.

It seems that the Fuji GFX combines excellent lenses with the best small medium format sensor available today, and it is pretty clear that 100 MP is around the corner and those 100 megapixels are probably needed to make the lenses justice.

I freely admit that I don't own and have never used the GFX, my appreciation of that camera/lens system is based on Jim Kasson's writings (and his measurements). I would guess that the same applies to the Hasselblad X1D. Same sensor and probably excellent lenses. But, I have not seen the same depth of analysis of the X1D as Jim has done with the GFX.

I have been shooting 24 MP on 24x36 mm for a long time. I would say that it is perfectly good for prints up to A2 size (16"x23"), but I would say that 24MP is not optimal for say 30"x40". Not saying that it is not possible to make excellent prints from 24MP at that size, just that it is not really optimal.

An interesting question may be how well a Fuji GFX 100 will match today's 100MP digital backs from Phase One and Hasselblad, my guess is that it will hold it's own.

At this stage, we only need high resolving systems for large size prints. Computer screens are pretty much limited to small resolutions. With 8K we will need 39MP (on 2:3 crop) to fill the screen.

Best regards
Erik








I cannot comment on the specifics of SL vs GFX, however I can on FF vs MF. For me the decision was SL vs S and I chose Leica S. I come for 4x5 view camera use and tonality and image quality are key factors. I am not saying that SL or other FF is not good, but that MF is much better. I also use Leica M-P 240. With FF one has better maneuverability, faster operation and a potentially smaller kit. Of course, it is possible to add more lenses and accessories in FF and end up with more stuff in an equally large kit.

In the film days I knew guys that pushed slow 35mm film to the limits to obtain the highest level of detail and tonality possible. They did quite well but could not match medium format. The situation is similar with FF vs MF sensors.

You need to decide on the most important factors for you, such as maneuverability vs image quality.

Jesse
 

BeuBu

New member
Hi All,
I‘m suggesting since weeks to add the GFX-50s to my M240 gear. I just want have more pixels for croppimg larger prints. I like the image quality and the operation of the GFX. The only point I‘m hesitating is the 3:4 format. It sounds funny, but if I‘m lookng to my current work, I think I‘m a „2:3 shooter“. I‘m used to this format since 30 years.
Does anybody has experience switching from 2:3 to 3:4. Did you changed your viewing / framing?
Thanks and regards,
Uwe
www.beutnagel-buchner.com
 

dj may

Well-known member
Hi All,
I‘m suggesting since weeks to add the GFX-50s to my M240 gear. I just want have more pixels for croppimg larger prints. I like the image quality and the operation of the GFX. The only point I‘m hesitating is the 3:4 format. It sounds funny, but if I‘m lookng to my current work, I think I‘m a „2:3 shooter“. I‘m used to this format since 30 years.
Does anybody has experience switching from 2:3 to 3:4. Did you changed your viewing / framing?
Thanks and regards,
Uwe
www.beutnagel-buchner.com
I think it will be less of a “problem” than you suspect. It is probably because you have used one format for so long. You will adapt very quickly to setting up your shots according to what you see in the viewfinder. Avoid wasting sensor area by cropping, unless you are composing for a specific ratio such as panorama or square. I would be surprised if someone looks at your prints and says “I think that would be better as 2:3.” ;)
Jesse
 

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
Hi All,
I‘m suggesting since weeks to add the GFX-50s to my M240 gear. I just want have more pixels for croppimg larger prints. I like the image quality and the operation of the GFX. The only point I‘m hesitating is the 3:4 format. It sounds funny, but if I‘m lookng to my current work, I think I‘m a „2:3 shooter“. I‘m used to this format since 30 years.
Does anybody has experience switching from 2:3 to 3:4. Did you changed your viewing / framing?
Thanks and regards,
Uwe
www.beutnagel-buchner.com
the gfx does support lots of view aspects, 3:2 is one of them, of course you will lose the pixels out of that aspect ratio
 

Photon42

Well-known member
Hi All,
I‘m suggesting since weeks to add the GFX-50s to my M240 gear. I just want have more pixels for croppimg larger prints. I like the image quality and the operation of the GFX. The only point I‘m hesitating is the 3:4 format. It sounds funny, but if I‘m lookng to my current work, I think I‘m a „2:3 shooter“. I‘m used to this format since 30 years.
Does anybody has experience switching from 2:3 to 3:4. Did you changed your viewing / framing?
Thanks and regards,
Uwe
www.beutnagel-buchner.com
Tolle Fotos, Uwe.

I tried different formats myself (square, 4/3 and 2/3). In theory, one would chose the format after the composition. But then, I have never found it to be a problem to use whatever the sensor gives me. Somehow I start looking for the composition which suits well the sensor dimensions. And for the remaining 5-10%, there is always the ability to crop. Compared to the M, the GFX would give you lots of reserve.

For you - does it have to be Medium Format?
 

BeuBu

New member
Tolle Fotos, Uwe.

I tried different formats myself (square, 4/3 and 2/3). In theory, one would chose the format after the composition. But then, I have never found it to be a problem to use whatever the sensor gives me. Somehow I start looking for the composition which suits well the sensor dimensions. And for the remaining 5-10%, there is always the ability to crop. Compared to the M, the GFX would give you lots of reserve.

For you - does it have to be Medium Format?
Danke, Photon42!
Indeed, I‘m cropping during development in ACR to the format which fits my impression of the picture, but as you most likely saw, its mostly close to 2:3. But the reason could of course be that my „basic framing“ is adapted to my view finder‘s frame. For that, I appriciate your comment / experience on different formats very much.
But to answer your question: No, I think I don‘t need medium format. I‘m just looking for „more than 24MPix“ (Leica seems not willing to support landscape photographers) ... and the Sonys are not a real option for me (that would be a different discussion ...). The D850 would be an option it would provide a tilt screen option for focussing.
So, what‘s left?
Uwe
 

BeuBu

New member
I think it will be less of a “problem” than you suspect. It is probably because you have used one format for so long. You will adapt very quickly to setting up your shots according to what you see in the viewfinder. Avoid wasting sensor area by cropping, unless you are composing for a specific ratio such as panorama or square. I would be surprised if someone looks at your prints and says “I think that would be better as 2:3.” ;)
Jesse
Very helpful comment, Jesse.
Thanks for that,
Uwe
 
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