High ISO with Medium Format

[ndwgolf]

Guys
I have a question; When shooting in low light with a 100 megapixel CMOS digital back, what would you say is a maximum ISO to shoot at without sacrificing the dynamic range?

So to add some meat to this question I will be taking my Hasselblad H6D100c with me on Safari. As I am sure your aware the best light and action on safari is normally early morning or late afternoon meaning the need for higher than base ISO-64. I am thinking bumping it up to ISO800 but wondered what you guys thought about that especially if you have got any real practical experience of shooting the H6D100c at higher than base ISO.

I have seen Ming Thene shooting at ISO12800 in Malaysia with great results but that was people not vast landscapes with moving subjects.

Thoughts and comments most welcome

Neil

 

[Boinger]

I have some experience shooting in Indian jungles which are far darker than conditions you will see in Africa.

I am presuming you aren't going to Congo with dense foliage and going more to Tanzania? IE plains style safari.

So you should have a decent bit more light than I had working in Indian Jungles.

Having said all that I would like to ask more of what you are trying to accomplish with the medium format?

Landscapes or Animals. Landscapes you can generally setup the shot and decide on the ISO as long as you don't have animal movement.

When it comes to animals your ISO is going to be dictated by your hand holding (are you going to handhold?) skill / fastest lens / shutter speed needed. Not image noise or quality, that would be my last concern. Your primary concern when it comes to animals is getting the shot so I would not hesitate to bump the ISO up as much as needed. Especially with such a large sensor it would depend how much you are going to really enlarge the image before you even see noise.

IMO when it comes to wildlife photography Shutter Speed > DR / Noise

 

[ndwgolf]

I have some experience shooting in Indian jungles which are far darker than conditions you will see in Africa.

I am presuming you aren't going to Congo with dense foliage and going more to Tanzania? IE plains style safari.

So you should have a decent bit more light than I had working in Indian Jungles.

Having said all that I would like to ask more of what you are trying to accomplish with the medium format?

Landscapes or Animals. Landscapes you can generally setup the shot and decide on the ISO as long as you don't have animal movement.

When it comes to animals your ISO is going to be dictated by your hand holding (are you going to handhold?) skill / fastest lens / shutter speed needed. Not image noise or quality, that would be my last concern. Your primary concern when it comes to animals is getting the shot so I would not hesitate to bump the ISO up as much as needed. Especially with such a large sensor it would depend how much you are going to really enlarge the image before you even see noise.

IMO when it comes to wildlife photography Shutter Speed > DR / Noise

I am hoping to shoot animal scapes i.e. landscapes with animals in it.

My setup with the H6D100c will be with a HC 1.7 TC plus HC300mm so effectively I will have 510mm, therefore I plan to ideally shoot at F8 to F11 at 1/750 and ISO to make a correct exposure (God I hope Hasselblad come out with auto ISO before I go). IF the ISO looks to high then I will drop the F stop.........but I'm still hoping someone can give me a ISO number that they have had success with.

My H6D will be sitting on a Wimberly Gimbal head or a bean bag if need be

Neil

 

[Shashin]

Guys
I have a question; When shooting in low light with a 100 megapixel CMOS digital back, what would you say is a maximum ISO to shoot at without sacrificing the dynamic range?

For the simple question, the answer is none as dynamic range is always less with increased ISO.

However, the question would be what is the luminance range of the scene. Usually dark conditions are also low contrast, so you should be able to increase ISO and not clip the scene. How far? You are going to have to test a bit. But you can do that before your leave--go out around dusk and take some pictures and process them. That should give you an idea on how far you want to push your ISO and exposures. We really can't give a number as you will have a different criteria for acceptable image quality.

 

[ndwgolf]

For the simple question, the answer is none as dynamic range is always less with increased ISO.

However, the question would be what is the luminance range of the scene. Usually dark conditions are also low contrast, so you should be able to increase ISO and not clip the scene. How far? You are going to have to test a bit. But you can do that before your leave--go out around dusk and take some pictures and process them. That should give you an idea on how far you want to push your ISO and exposures. We really can't give a number as you will have a different criteria for acceptable image quality.

im currently on an oil rig in Nigeria but will be flying home to Malaysia on Wednesday then heading to my other home in Phuket Thailand the following Wednesday where my H6D is waiting for me. I will do like you said and go out and shoot some early morning shots at different 1SOS and share them here.........

Neil

 

[siddhaarta]

Maybe this comparative graph helps to get an idea how DR behaves at higher ISO values:

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

It is the Phase One back, but I suppose the results with the H6D 100c would be very similar, as it has the same sensor.

The comparison includes two Nikon bodies, considered very good for this kind of photography.

Conclusion: don't worry, you have the best sensor for high ISO shooting available.

 

[stngoldberg]

Neil,
I'm using a P1 back, but I suspect I have the same sensor as your H6.
I do not notice any falloff of DR up to an ISO of 800 and the drop-off after that is noticeable but not dramatic. I use the minimum ISO that I need which when using the 300mm with the 1.7 extender (which is always more than I prefer). BTW when using that lens plus extender. I tend to set my camera on shutter priority at 1/800/sec and adjust my f stop with ISO.
I feel silly telling you this because you are a hell of a photographer and probably don't need my input.
Stanley

 

[ndwgolf]

I feel silly telling you this because you are a hell of a photographer and probably don't need my input.
Stanley

Not at all Stanley..........The issue I have is finding a way to quickly access the ISO button......Unfortunately I am on an Oil Rig so don't have my camera with me, but from what I can remember the ISO button is on the top of the grip and not exactly easy to get to especially in a hurry.
Yes my plan is to use manual exposure mode with shutter set at 1/750 and F4.5 thru F11 and to correct the exposure by adjusting ISO hence the need for quick access to the ISO button.........maybe I can reassign the TF button to ISO??

Neil

 

[tcdeveau]

Personally I'd get out and do some testing yourself to figure out what is acceptable to you, when you are off the rig and have time.

I'd say you're probably fine up to ISO 1600, up to 3200 is usable too IMHO (with some noise reduction applied in post), as well as 6400 (again with NR in post). In addition to DR, you'll lose finer details at higher ISOs, but sometimes you just have to kick the ISO up in order to maintain acceptable sharpness.

 

[ndwgolf]

Personally I'd get out and do some testing yourself to figure out what is acceptable to you, when you are off the rig and have time.

.

Thats my plan....I just need to get home first

Neil

 

[Boinger]

I am hoping to shoot animal scapes i.e. landscapes with animals in it.

My setup with the H6D100c will be with a HC 1.7 TC plus HC300mm so effectively I will have 510mm, therefore I plan to ideally shoot at F8 to F11 at 1/750 and ISO to make a correct exposure (God I hope Hasselblad come out with auto ISO before I go). IF the ISO looks to high then I will drop the F stop.........but I'm still hoping someone can give me a ISO number that they have had success with.

My H6D will be sitting on a Wimberly Gimbal head or a bean bag if need be

Neil

So I'd say that 1/focal length is a good place to start since you will be on a tripod... and 1/500 is pretty fast.

With regards to the animals it really depends on the setting and how far the animals are will dictate total relative motion.

An animal wagging his tail or walking slowly 1/2 mile away won't appear to have much motion and you might not need such a fast shutter speed to freeze it. What I would do is shoot some test shots in this scenario and quickly zoom into the animals at range to make sure you are freezing them.

Where as if the animal is just outside your jeep you will probable need a faster shutter speed to freeze any potential motion.

From what my parents told me the animals are fairly lazy in the plains they just kind of lay around and meander here and there. So I don't think shutter speed will be that much of an issue for you.

 

[ndwgolf]

I just remembered I took a few pictures of my pal at ISO 1600 using my H6D100c Here is a right out of camera 100% crop shot at ISO1600.....not to bad. I am sure with a little work we could make that quite presentable

Neil

 

[ndwgolf]

I just remembered I took a few pictures of my pal at ISO 1600 using my H6D100c Here is a right out of camera 100% crop shot at ISO1600.....not to bad. I am sure with a little work we could make that quite presentable

Neil
A quick PP of the above picture

Just need to find some wildebeest as pretty in September

Neil

 

[bab]

Ming Thein has some images on his blog at 12k iso they look great, Ive shot at 6400k with no issues EXCEPT movement.
You could try panning to help with some creative blurring movement.

I would in those low light situations shoot a D5 really the only camera that will handle what lighting and subject your describing...team that Nikon body with a 100-400 or a Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3.

Its all about the right tool for the job, as you and others have mentioned shooting wildlife thats moving in low light you must protect the Shutter at all costs.

 

[ndwgolf]

Its all about the right tool for the job, as you and others have mentioned shooting wildlife thats moving in low light you must protect the Shutter at all costs.

I agree 100% I have a D5 and Nikon 600mm f4 at home (latest model) but I want to try my safari with MF........ that’s all, nothing ventured nothing gained.......... I look forward to sharing the images with you all when I get back from Tanzania at the end of September

Neil

 

[Boinger]

Here is a shot I got with my D700

We got lucky and spotted 2 tigers in the bush as we were leaving the park. It was midafternoon so light was a bit harsh. Now I am not as good a photographer as some of the people here so keep that in mind.

We were watching the tigers for a few minutes and they were content staying hidden in the bush. Suddenly from behind us a cub was trotting across the forest. I quickly turned around snapped focus and shot off a burst. I later went and looked at my burst. I had a total time of about 2 seconds to grab this shot before the tiger disappeared into the bush.

this was 1/500th, F-6, ISO-3600, 300mm

 

[ndwgolf]

Here is a shot I got with my D700

We got lucky and spotted 2 tigers in the bush as we were leaving the park. It was midafternoon so light was a bit harsh. Now I am not as good a photographer as some of the people here so keep that in mind.

We were watching the tigers for a few minutes and they were content staying hidden in the bush. Suddenly from behind us a cub was trotting across the forest. I quickly turned around snapped focus and shot off a burst. I later went and looked at my burst. I had a total time of about 2 seconds to grab this shot before the tiger disappeared into the bush.

this was 1/500th, F-6, ISO-3600, 300mm

View attachment 133924

D700....... is that a medium format camera........ never heard of it
Neil

 

[Boinger]

D700....... is that a medium format camera........ never heard of it
Neil

Lol sarcasm?

Nikon D700


This was before I had MF equipment. Was just giving an example of reaction time and how quick things happen.