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X2D Thread

hcubell

Well-known member
Come on, spare me this Phase One Troll BS, what i said was the truth so better
get over it.
Let´s face it, 90% of the hard word IS done by Sony in the cmos sensor, all they have
to do is putting a 3$ Arduino in it and get the firmware done which by the way is already written for handys and guess what, they failed miserably.
I´ll bet, they sent over some really good guys from China to get this mess done but we will never know.
Hasselblad was resurrected from the death and is now property of a very rich person
in China, that´s all i said so move on, there is nothing to see here...
Why spare you the Phase One Troll designation? It's perfectly apt. You just happened to show up here out of the blue and nobody knows who you are other than you named yourself Mr. Phase and launched into a tirade. It's apparent that the X1D and the company just drive you nuts. Please introduce yourself, tell us what camera equipment you now use, and show us some of your work. Otherwise head over to DP Review's medium format forum where you will feel right at home among like minded people. The X1D drives them crazy as well. It's a good support group.
BTW, if what Hasselblad has done with the X1D is really so easy as just dropping a Sony sensor and a $3 Arduino into a case, why does the X1D look, feel and handle the way it does and EVERY other camera made today looks, feels and handles so differently?
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Well, they failed on the first try, so what makes you think they will get
it right second time?
"Sweden is a failed State" (Donald Trump) and "Handmade in Sweden" sounds
more like a threat these days imho.
Hasselblad is now the hobby of Robert Wang, the owner of DJI and if he will loose
his interest one day we will see the rebirth of the Lunar. :D
Your post raises a bunch of questions ....

Tongue in cheek?

Stir the pot?

Dissembling?

Please allow me to share my experience ... early X1D 4116 owner who has moved on.

Does the name James Jannard strike a bell? Hobby was Red Cinema cameras which have
turned the video world around. A bit of a stretch to say that someone who can succeed in business
and use that experience to leverage a passion will then kill it. Luckily someone registered the
name that meant so much to MF photography and decided to rescue it from the poor path it had
taken.

So the X1D is a failure ... according to whom? Yes leveraged a fantastic Sony sensor and gave it to
us at a reasonable price ... firmware updates regularly improving the experience ... but limited by the
characteristics of the sensor itself.

I have owned Phase One P20, Hasselblad H1 H2 H3D 39 II, Leica S2-P, S006 and prior multiple Hasselblad,
Mamiya 7 and Rollei MF cameras.

The X1D stands with all of the above ... primarily due to the sensor. But to say that they bought off the shelf programming and
piecemeal components is a stretch. Their choices have come back to bite them ... but they are more responsive than most to
recognize the defects and correct them on a timely basis.

My realization was that while the sensor and format was great ... it did not meet my needs nor desires. Lenses a bit too clinical
and without any real presence ... slow LCD ... never bonded with the EVF ... only used it when the light was so strong that the
LCD was hard to view.

Captures ... ie actual pictures were stunning ... and I could nail focus all the time. But a bit sterile presentation for me ... and the
slow electronic shutter really precluded using older lenses with mojo.

Decent video ... if HD and no control is good enough for you.

Not an Xpan Not a Mamiya 7 nor an Alpa TC with a decent lens and back but nor far from it.

My take on all of this is that those who have and will buy into the system will be satisfied ... but it is far from the camera that
will be an extension of your vision and facilities. Like dancing with a partner that has a disability. Love him or her and you will
be comforted but not like an evening with Ginger Rogers Fred Astaire or Gene Kelly.

And I think this will improve.

Other than Hasselblad and Fuji ... no other company has taken the risk of introducing this new small system. They are to be
applauded for their efforts.

Just not my cuppa ... sorry to say.

Bob
 

bab

Active member
If the X2D is and has what I need I will buy two bodies and the lenses. I have always wanted two bodies since the film days when I used to shoot one with a zoom and one with a prime that was the best combination.

I'm not down for a release with a two year wait for firmware upgrades though it must be turn key from the release for me to jump in.

I don't need one tool for every task, just so they (Hasselblad) know I already have the H6D and wait anxiously for each firmware update to make my workflow streamlined. So far they have hit on a few of the issues but not the most important for me.

I don't travel with steamship trunks, or use dial up modems, look in the newspaper to pick a movie and so on.
 

Frankly

New member
If the X2D is and has what I need I will buy two bodies and the lenses. I have always wanted two bodies since the film days when I used to shoot one with a zoom and one with a prime that was the best combination.

I'm not down for a release with a two year wait for firmware upgrades though it must be turn key from the release for me to jump in.

I don't need one tool for every task, just so they (Hasselblad) know I already have the H6D and wait anxiously for each firmware update to make my workflow streamlined. So far they have hit on a few of the issues but not the most important for me.

I don't travel with steamship trunks, or use dial up modems, look in the newspaper to pick a movie and so on.
I agree, having two redundant similar systems frees you up to experiment and shoot much faster, there is no mental roadblock to trying the alternative lens and you’ll have supreme confidence that no matter what, you’ll get the shot.

So for the same budget you could get the new X2D or TWO X1Ds. The cold, mature, professional decision is to go for the two older bodies. Most likely, I’ll argue, you’ll make better images because of it.

Do you really think any of the experts here will do that? LOL

(While I'm a lowly Nikon shooter, for 35 years of photography I've had two duplicate primary camera bodies (or more!) for the bread and butter work. You're a lot better off with two FM-2s than one F3 for example.)
 
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retcheto

Member
Are there any indications of an improvement in image quality with the new sensor? I don’t know what that would be, just curious. The IQ now is awesome, what exactly would improve?

Or are the improvements we expect to see mainly with ease of use, functionality etc.

I have an X1D and still learning, but I love it. I don’t have any issues with its slowness or the things most people complain about. But I am curious as to what the image quality differences would be. I’ve never played with a 100 MP file so I don’t know what to expect. Ill probably upgrade just out of curiosity more than anything. And GAS.

I’m more excited for the new lenses to come out however, that’s more important to me at the moment. But I’ll definitely get an X2D
 

satijntje

Member
When looking to the price difference between the
H6D-100C: 34.680€
and
H6D-50C: 14.280€,
one can expect that the 100MP X-body will be in a region where a lot of amateur photographers will say no.
I hope that there will be a X1DMarkII of X2D-50C whatever it is called with the 50MP sensor, as I do not really need this expensive sensor!
John
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

The 100c has a large (54x33 mm) sensor while the 50c has small (33x44) sensor (*). So the X2D will be much less expensive than the 100c. Due to the sensor but also due to the competition from Fuji GFX and Pentax 645X.

I would guess the X2D will start around 10k and go down in price.

In the end, the price is what customers are willing to pay...

Best regards
Erik

(*) Sensor costs are very much and nonlinearly dependent on sensor area and much less on complexity. I would guess that a 54x41 mm sensor is 3-4 times the cost of an 44x33 mm sensor.


When looking to the price difference between the
H6D-100C: 34.680€
and
H6D-50C: 14.280€,
one can expect that the 100MP X-body will be in a region where a lot of amateur photographers will say no.
I hope that there will be a X1DMarkII of X2D-50C whatever it is called with the 50MP sensor, as I do not really need this expensive sensor!
John
 
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ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Re: X2D Thread - regarding the EVF

Hi,

Ming Thein indicated that the 44x33 50MP sensor was developed for DSLR type cameras, so using it with and EVF may be more problematic than with sensors developed with EVF in mind.

Ming also indicated that Hasselblad could not afford to develop an ASIC for the camera. The big vendors all have their ASICS, with funny names.

It may be that DJI partnership may help and the next generation Sony sensor will probably have faster subpsampled readout modes.

Best regards
Erik



Hi,
Agree with the EVF. It's not a simple as it seems, the pipeline needs to be faster enought to produce a color balanced image, very fast (at least 30 times per second), but yes MF should have the best viewfinder possible.

Best regards,
 

hcubell

Well-known member
I have an X1D and still learning, but I love it. I don’t have any issues with its slowness or the things most people complain about.
It's a funny thing. By and large, the people who complain don't own an X1D. Never did. Never will. It's like Kryptonite for them.
 

Boinger

Active member
It's a funny thing. By and large, the people who complain don't own an X1D. Never did. Never will. It's like Kryptonite for them.
Well I think one of the issues with X1d is because it is a cool looking MF that is relatively affordable compared to their larger brothers and sisters. It attracted a lot of the 35mm crowd, and made them curious.

But they are used to the speed of 35mm equipment and were expecting the same in MF.

I think it's the expectations that led to the mismatch.

Personally the x1d seems to be one of the fastest MF camera's I have owned.
 

jduncan

Active member
Well I think one of the issues with X1d is because it is a cool looking MF that is relatively affordable compared to their larger brothers and sisters. It attracted a lot of the 35mm crowd and made them curious.

But they are used to the speed of 35mm equipment and were expecting the same in MF.

I think it's the expectations that led to the mismatch.

Personally, the x1d seems to be one of the fastest MF cameras I have owned.
Hi,

That's exactly the point and what the old CEO could not see: He had gold in his hands if the camera was a little bit better than today, or the sensor was a little bit bigger (at the same price) Hasselblad will make a fortune. Instead, the manufacturing was prepared for a boutique product: fully manual. MF lovers are used to dealing with little issues, firmware delay for example, and recovering the joy of photography: one thinks, one observes, one waits and enjoy the view until the light is there for the photo. Machine gun shooters either shoot or enjoy. MF is different. Many of us have a different system for the moment when you need speed, more lenses etc. Some people use the X1D as a second "joy" system instead of buying an analog Leica. It's not, and it was not intended to be a replacement for the D5 the A9, not even the D3x
Mistakes were done in manufacturing, Hasselblad did not take advantage of releasing early because they could not build enough cameras. Today is a different day, and the X2D should try to get some of that money back before a world crisis hits and cut luxury items spending.

Best regards,
 
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DB5

Member
Hi,

That's exactly the point and what the old CEO could not see: He had gold in his hands if the camera was a little bit better than today, or the sensor was a little bit bigger (at the same price) Hasselblad will make a fortune. Instead, the manufacturing was prepared for a boutique product: fully manual. MF lovers are used to dealing with little issues, firmware delay for example, and recovering the joy of photography: one thinks, one observes, one waits and enjoy the view until the light is there for the photo. Machine gun shooters either shoot or enjoy. MF is different. Many of us have a different system for the moment when you need speed, more lenses etc. Some people use the X1D as a second "joy" system instead of buying an analog Leica. It's not, and it was not intended to be a replacement for the D5 the A9, not even the D3x
Mistakes were done in manufacturing, Hasselblad did not take advantage of releasing early because they could not build enough cameras. Today is a different day, and the X2D should try to get some of that money back before a world crisis hits and cut luxury items spending.

Best regards,
Yes, well said.

I think, though, that Hasselblad didn't even know how successful it would be. It was really a last ditch effort to save the company. It was largely a test product, verging on prototype and I wonder if Hasselblad were very successful at the time, it probably would never have even happened.

So in Hasselblad's defence I don't think they even knew how well it would resonate. Perry Oosting did a very commendable job I think and I think it's a shame he went. Perry was hinting about the strategy a long time before the X1D was announced. I think seeing the gap in the market seems obvious now, but it wasn't at the time. Medium Format was what medium format was and it seemed it would stay that way forever at the time. I think it was really quite visionary. Also very clever for Fuji to jump full frame straight for Medium Format since full frame was probably more realistic for them, yet at the same time could have been a wrong step.

In terms of hasselblad, I think this is a miraculous recovery from what was a dying company. Their demise as a company, and shifting trends in camera design, probably made it what it is - and that is a success. Everything in it's right place, so to speak. And now the tables are turning and Phase One seems stuck out like a sore thumb - interesting times. Cast your mind back 5 years ago - who on earth would have predicted this?
 

Hausen

Active member
All I can say is as a LE shooter there isn't a better camera for me than the X1D. Also I am stunned how often HB support its improvement with firmware updates. Means little to me what some dude with a a monicker like Phase thinks. I live by the fact that opinion are like a**holes, everyones got one.
 

DB5

Member
It's interesting to read that some people don't want 100MP over 50MP.

I read the same thing about 24MP over 12MP some moons ago.

Monitor resolution leaped up recently and it will continue to leap up and I'm sure Print will too. Technology will continue pushing itself by itself.

Looking back on 50MP images some time in the future will be like looking at postage stamps.

I will take as much resolution as is possible with best possible IQ. 100MP, bring it on.
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
It's interesting to read that some people don't want 100MP over 50MP.

I read the same thing about 24MP over 12MP some moons ago.

Monitor resolution leaped up recently and it will continue to leap up and I'm sure Print will too. Technology will continue pushing itself by itself.

Looking back on 50MP images some time in the future will be like looking at postage stamps.

I will take as much resolution as is possible with best possible IQ. 100MP, bring it on.
While I agree with your general direction of thought, in my case, I have a 5-yr. horizon in which I am working. The H5D-50c is precisely what I need for what we do, it is not a matter of "want", or insatiable greed for me. It is all we can afford period. It just happens that we are successful in what we are doing and it will have to last us four more years. At the horizon point for us, the camera will be disposable and we will keep it or move on but it is certain that we will not be able to affordable the latest and greatest then either.

The market is complex and includes all kinds of customers/clients, so it is not helpful to think there are only two kinds of people. Those who can afford it, may God bless them... for those who do not want/need more, that is a personal decision,

For me, photography is not a hobby. It is a calling and one of three means of expression that I use daily and it is part of who we are and that is why we are here on this forum. It is difficult to afford the equipment but that is our choice, and one that we do not regret, because it is what we need to accomplish our tasks.

We are all in this together and I look forward to the new X2D and beyond, because of the images yet to be made and shared on this forum. Thank you all for the amazing work you do, with whatever your equipment happens to be.:):):)
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
It's interesting to read that some people don't want 100MP over 50MP.

I read the same thing about 24MP over 12MP some moons ago.

Monitor resolution leaped up recently and it will continue to leap up and I'm sure Print will too. Technology will continue pushing itself by itself.

Looking back on 50MP images some time in the future will be like looking at postage stamps.

I will take as much resolution as is possible with best possible IQ. 100MP, bring it on.
I'm with you.

As for file handling, computers also get more powerful over time and large capacity hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. Bring it on 100mp.

With our first baby on the way, and night school starting in august, I won't be an early X2D adopter though. No idea when I'll get to jump on the 100mp train, but I look forward to seeing everyone's images when the next gen cameras come out in the meantime :thumbup:
 

jduncan

Active member
I'm with you.

As for file handling, computers also get more powerful over time and large capacity hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. Bring it on 100mp.

With our first baby on the way and night school starting in August, I won't be an early X2D adopter though. No idea when I'll get to jump on the 100mp train, but I look forward to seeing everyone's images when the next gen cameras come out in the meantime: thumbup:
Hi,

We have to take into account the reality of 8K and 12K hight dynamic range video cameras. We agree that the X2D should be much more than higher resolution, due to the capabilities fo the new sensor, but higher resolution will be great. If MF is going to survive they need to stay on the digital image capture curve. That is the other factor, it's not just what we need, is also the ability to maintain and growth mindshare, so capital investment continues.

Best regards,
 

DB5

Member
Oh man, the excitement is killing me and the money is burning a whole in my pocket. I'm just looking at the video features of the 100MP sensor and also looking at the new DJI Ronin S with compatibility with the Hasselblad X which will apparently, soon, will include focus pull too. :cry:

Hurry up and release it Hasselblad! :watch:
 
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