X2D Thread

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Do you have a link to that information. I have seen copies of the roadmap but no indication of date of commercial availability.

To my best knowledge, Phase One is already marketing a camera with that sensor in the aerial imaging market.

Best regards
Erik

Sony previously announced commercial availability in November, 2018, for the new 100MP sensor for "cropped" MF. I would be very surprised if we don't see an announcement from both Fuji and Hasselblad about new cameras with this sensor. The deliveries may not start until 2019, but Hasselblad at least has never been shy about "pre-announcing" cameras and then maintaining a sales of existing product by lowering the price and/or offering upgrades when the new model starts to ship.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Joe,

Yes, that is the one I am familiar with. Just to say, Sony has also released some pretty detailed specs on both sensors.

It may be that the sensor is available in small quantities, as it seems that Phase One already sells them in aerial photo systems.

Sensor development is quite tricky. Making a physical chip is like a three month process (*), so if an issue is found, that may lead to a six month delay, or so.

Best regards
Erik

(*) That info has been confirmed by Eric Fossum, the inventor of the CMOS sensor.

Post from DPReview here. I haven't seen a roadmap that is as specific as Howard stated, i.e., November 2018, but don't doubt its existence.

Joe

 

[hcubell]

Hi,

Do you have a link to that information. I have seen copies of the roadmap but no indication of date of commercial availability.

To my best knowledge, Phase One is already marketing a camera with that sensor in the aerial imaging market.

Best regards
Erik

I can't recall exactly where I saw it now, but I recall it saying that the sensors would be available in small quantities early in 2018 but wouldn't start shipping in commercial quantities till November, 2018. If I have a chance, I will try to find it.

 

[tcdeveau]

I spoke to my regional HB rep at an event recently who said he was expecting new product announcements (ie X2D) at Photokina in Sept 2018 or May 2019, and that he was hoping for the Sept. 2018 date. That's pretty much in line with what we're all thinking, but to be taken with a grain of salt as he made it sound like the mothership in Sweden is pretty tightlipped about new products, even to him.

 

[sog1927]

I spoke to my regional HB rep at an event recently who said he was expecting new product announcements (ie X2D) at Photokina in Sept 2018 or May 2019, and that he was hoping for the Sept. 2018 date. That's pretty much in line with what we're all thinking, but to be taken with a grain of salt as he made it sound like the mothership in Sweden is pretty tightlipped about new products, even to him.

I think they probably want to avoid another premature announcement. I'm sure they've been working on engineering prototypes for awhile now (as long as evaluation versions of the sensor have been available).

 

[Steve Hendrix]

I think they probably want to avoid another premature announcement. I'm sure they've been working on engineering prototypes for awhile now (as long as evaluation versions of the sensor have been available).

I'm not sure they truly want to avoid this. Think if they had waited to announce after Fuji. As soon as Fuji announced the price cutting began. Premature announcements enable higher profit margins for manufacturers, particularly when there is no confirmed competition to worry about.


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[hcubell]

I'm not sure they truly want to avoid this. Think if they had waited to announce after Fuji. As soon as Fuji announced the price cutting began. Premature announcements enable higher profit margins for manufacturers, particularly when there is no confirmed competition to worry about.


Steve Hendrix/CI

Hello Steve:
The price cuts on the X1D models did not start until sometime this Spring, 2018, well over a year after both Hasselblad and Fuji were in the market with their cameras. The reason for price cuts is complicated. Sometimes you do it to meet competition. Sometimes you do it because you have run out of early adopters who will pay a premium and you want to sell to those who have been sitting on the fence over price. Sometimes you do it because you conclude that the increased volume from a lower price point will offset the lower profit margin. Sometimes you do it to clear inventory before announcing a new model. Sometimes it all of the above.
I guess the timing of Hasselblad's announcement of the X2D will be dictated by how far offthey think they are from shipping units. I assume Hasselblad won't want to announce the X2D too many months before shipping it because it will sure stifle the sales of the X1D. The price point of these cameras is probably not high enough to justify selling X1Ds with a 100% trade in offer on an X2D. Hasselblad did that on the H6D-100 before it shipped, but that was a $33k camera.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Hello Steve:
The price cuts on the X1D models did not start until sometime this Spring, 2018, well over a year after both Hasselblad and Fuji were in the market with their cameras. The reason for price cuts is complicated. Sometimes you do it to meet competition. Sometimes you do it because you have run out of early adopters who will pay a premium and you want to sell to those who have been sitting on the fence over price. Sometimes you do it because you conclude that the increased volume from a lower price point will offset the lower profit margin. Sometimes you do it to clear inventory before announcing a new model. Sometimes it all of the above.
I guess the timing of Hasselblad's announcement of the X2D will be dictated by how far offthey think they are from shipping units. I assume Hasselblad won't want to announce the X2D too many months before shipping it because it will sure stifle the sales of the X1D. The price point of these cameras is probably not high enough to justify selling X1Ds with a 100% trade in offer on an X2D. Hasselblad did that on the H6D-100 before it shipped, but that was a $33k camera.

I'm sure you're right, Howard. I couldn't recall for sure, there has been so much activity of pricing announcements and changes that I had the sense it began earlier. In the case of the GFX and the X1D, it appears the early adopters of the X1D paid a higher premium than the early adopters of the GFX. It will be interesting to see where the respective pricing is for the Fuji and Hasselblad Version II models, and how close their respective announcement/shipping times are.


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[hcubell]

In the case of the GFX and the X1D, it appears the early adopters of the X1D paid a higher premium than the early adopters of the GFX. It will be interesting to see where the respective pricing is for the Fuji and Hasselblad Version II models, and how close their respective announcement/shipping times are.


Steve Hendrix/CI

I agree about the relative amount of the premium, but the interesting thing is that my sense from speaking with a lot of X1D early adopters is that they are pretty darn happy with the X1D. It's by no means perfect, but its essential qualities are pretty special, and if that's why you bought it, you will generally be quite happy. It's a vastly improved camera today from when it was first released, but I have had mine from Day 1, and even early on I took some photographs with it that I am very happy with.

 

[DB5]

Kamera Express, the shop in the Netherlands that was selling X1D heavily Discontinued (-50% off) is now listing the X1D as DISCONTINUED.

https://www.kamera-express.nl/product/122074133/hasselblad-x1d-50c-body-zilver

 

[hcubell]

Kamera Express, the shop in the Netherlands that was selling X1D heavily Discontinued (-50% off) is now listing the X1D as DISCONTINUED.

https://www.kamera-express.nl/product/122074133/hasselblad-x1d-50c-body-zilver

The X1D is also listed as “out of stock” at the Hasselblad store.

 

[sog1927]

The X1D is also listed as “out of stock” at the Hasselblad store.

So I guess the question here is: "What's coming: X2D or just a 'mid-life kicker' for the X1D?"
I suppose we'll know in a few days.

 

[DB5]

Either X2D or X1D-100c.

I think X2D. They will probably be eager to get away from the shadow of the early X1D issues.

 

[Sarnian]

Either X2D or X1D-100c.

I think X2D. They will probably be eager to get away from the shadow of the early X1D issues.

It's a 100MP X2D. I know a professional photographer who's been testing one for a few months. Don't ask me their name as I promised I wouldn't tell!

 

[DB5]

It's a 100MP X2D. I know a professional photographer who's been testing one for a few months. Don't ask me their name as I promised I wouldn't tell!

Where you live gave it away.

 

[jduncan]

Either X2D or X1D-100c.

I think X2D. They will probably be eager to get away from the shadow of the early X1D issues.

Hi,

To fall into the shadow of the X2D issues. There is a reason Dante is the patron saint o of this forum, you know.
This is a joke with a grain of truth, the X2D for its pricing will get compared to FF DSLR and Mirrorless cameras.

FF systems contain advanced technologies like on sensor Phase Detect AF, Super speedy custom chip-sets with many generations of expertise, Dual Pixel AF, IBIS etc.

There is no way the X2D is going to match any of this.
We compare the X1D to other MF systems, or in my case, It is an alternative to shooting film: change format, slowdown,
change the mood, : don't spend that much time on the computer editing (Hasselblad colors), it's ok to shoot more than one image and trow the ones that are not 100% in focus.

It's compact, you can take the machine and be surprised by the results you get. I love how the machine keeps the context in street photography. It's different. It will never match my Nikon in terms of practicality.

Fewer words: for many of us it is a celebration of the creative process.

Best regards,

 

[jduncan]

So I guess the question here is: "What's coming: X2D or just a 'mid-life kicker' for the X1D?"
I suppose we'll know in a few days.

I hope so, the rumor mill is silent.
After failing to deliver the lenses and saying nothing, Hasselblad needs to show that the company is alive and that the X project continues to be alive and in good help.

At the same time, they probably don't want to announce the machine and deliver the machine 3 months after the promised date.

The other question is the H, but that is a different question for a different place.

Best regards,

 

[PeterA]

I've been an early adopter / user of the XID and am extremely happy with the images I get out of the camera - strangely enough I think I've only experienced one camera freeze moment in over 2 years - and that was a few days ago - the software updates have been continual, welcome and well executed. There is no doubt in my mind that the XID is one of the best examples of fresh industrial design and elegance as far as camera body and quality ever produced - I enjoy shooting with this camera as much as I do my Leica SL and in other times the Leica R8/9 bodies - all exapmples of outstanding design imho.

That said - I have no interest in 100 megapixels - and despite what I believe to be one of the best user interfaces - I do think that the camera is missing three useful features for my usage preferences

1. It was (imho) a massive silliness not to include a 'joystick' so that focus points can be moved - this needs to be rectified in any updated body design - same as making provision for a cable release of sorts.

2. My shooting with this camera is 90% walk around - no studio lighting usage all available light work and only very occasional tripod work - so the leaf shutter system in real world application for my style of shooting is a significant drawback as I find 1/2000th limit on shutter speed to be overly restrictive too often - no need to point out electronic shutter facility welcome as it was it isn't a substitute for a minimum of 1/4000th capability - for obvious reasons.

3. The lack of articulating screen is a major omission in my book for a walk around camera as well as what has now become a sub par EFV ( like the joystick ) should be able to be addressed.

All that said - I think that Fuji is carving out a dominant position in realistically priced cropped MF sensor market - I am borrowing a friend's GFX50 and a few lenses in order to compare shooting experience and files and will decide from there which way to go. I have to say the leaf shutter 2000th limit is a significant issue for my style of shooting and is probably the tipping point for a total system move - only made possible by the fact that Fuji lenses ( like Hasselblad's) are outstanding - I am looking forward to details of the Fuji rangefinder version of the GFX - very much so in fact and I believe that the Fuji rangefinder version will be a very big challenge to Hasselblad XID form factor - the only thing 'wrong' with the GFX is the relative cunkiness in terms of body shape versus the elegance of the XID.

After decades of being a Leica fanboy and user as well as Hasselblad ( with side excursions on Leaf/Aptus/PhaseOne/Alpa blah blah blah ) I think the Fuji ecosystem in both APC and cropped MF sensor segments is a compelling value/quality proposition - going forward.

 

[JohnBrew]

I accept the new X1D will probably be 100 mp. However, what I hope for is a 50 mp version with all the improvements of the new body.

 

[tcdeveau]

I have to say the leaf shutter 2000th limit is a significant issue for my style of shooting and is probably the tipping point for a total system move -

Is shooting with ND filters when you need faster than 1/2000th out of the question? Would be cheaper and easier than a total system move.