X2D Thread

[sog1927]

I accept the new X1D will probably be 100 mp. However, what I hope for is a 50 mp version with all the improvements of the new body.

I wouldn't mind the faster scan speed in the next generation sensor - however I'm currently saving my pennies for lenses.

 

[sog1927]

Is shooting with ND filters when you need faster than 1/2000th out of the question? Would be cheaper and easier than a total system move.

The leaf shutters in the A6D lenses support shutter speeds up to 1/4000th sec. I wonder when that technology will migrate to the regular product line.

 

[DB5]

Hi,

To fall into the shadow of the X2D issues. There is a reason Dante is the patron saint o of this forum, you know.
This is a joke with a grain of truth, the X2D for its pricing will get compared to FF DSLR and Mirrorless cameras.

FF systems contain advanced technologies like on sensor Phase Detect AF, Super speedy custom chip-sets with many generations of expertise, Dual Pixel AF, IBIS etc.

There is no way the X2D is going to match any of this.
We compare the X1D to other MF systems, or in my case, It is an alternative to shooting film: change format, slowdown,
change the mood, : don't spend that much time on the computer editing (Hasselblad colors), it's ok to shoot more than one image and trow the ones that are not 100% in focus.

It's compact, you can take the machine and be surprised by the results you get. I love how the machine keeps the context in street photography. It's different. It will never match my Nikon in terms of practicality.

Fewer words: for many of us it is a celebration of the creative process.

Best regards,

This is very true and I agree with you for the most part, but the X1D had very critical flaws which may have least been mostly resolved.It was a product of a company in a very weakened position.

Fuji got it mostly right straight off the bat, because they have the resources to work with. Hasselblad was on the brink of total collapse.

I agree the chances of new problems are there , but, the older sensor is more than 4 years old, combined with a couple years R+D time. It's really old tech now in terms of digital.

I think the X2D is going to be a whole different camera because hasselblad is a whole different company now and this is far more developed tech.

 

[DB5]

I accept the new X1D will probably be 100 mp. However, what I hope for is a 50 mp version with all the improvements of the new body.

With Fuji having the GFX R, I'm sure there will be an entry level model to compete. That being an X2D-50c. Considering the ground floor is the best place to start a grass roots movement aggressive marketing and pricing is really important. It's not only a battle of competing products but also of company strategy. The last time something like this went on was when Canon changed to the EF and EOS platform - they did very out of that for decades.

 

[DB5]

I hope so, the rumor mill is silent.
After failing to deliver the lenses and saying nothing, Hasselblad needs to show that the company is alive and that the X project continues to be alive and in good help.

At the same time, they probably don't want to announce the machine and deliver the machine 3 months after the promised date.

The other question is the H, but that is a different question for a different place.

Best regards,

The rumour mill is always silent when something big is about to drop. If there is nothing then a company starts leaking rumours to control the flow of departure.

 

[DB5]

I've been an early adopter / user of the XID and am extremely happy with the images I get out of the camera - strangely enough I think I've only experienced one camera freeze moment in over 2 years - and that was a few days ago - the software updates have been continual, welcome and well executed. There is no doubt in my mind that the XID is one of the best examples of fresh industrial design and elegance as far as camera body and quality ever produced - I enjoy shooting with this camera as much as I do my Leica SL and in other times the Leica R8/9 bodies - all exapmples of outstanding design imho.

That said - I have no interest in 100 megapixels - and despite what I believe to be one of the best user interfaces - I do think that the camera is missing three useful features for my usage preferences

1. It was (imho) a massive silliness not to include a 'joystick' so that focus points can be moved - this needs to be rectified in any updated body design - same as making provision for a cable release of sorts.

2. My shooting with this camera is 90% walk around - no studio lighting usage all available light work and only very occasional tripod work - so the leaf shutter system in real world application for my style of shooting is a significant drawback as I find 1/2000th limit on shutter speed to be overly restrictive too often - no need to point out electronic shutter facility welcome as it was it isn't a substitute for a minimum of 1/4000th capability - for obvious reasons.

3. The lack of articulating screen is a major omission in my book for a walk around camera as well as what has now become a sub par EFV ( like the joystick ) should be able to be addressed.

All that said - I think that Fuji is carving out a dominant position in realistically priced cropped MF sensor market - I am borrowing a friend's GFX50 and a few lenses in order to compare shooting experience and files and will decide from there which way to go. I have to say the leaf shutter 2000th limit is a significant issue for my style of shooting and is probably the tipping point for a total system move - only made possible by the fact that Fuji lenses ( like Hasselblad's) are outstanding - I am looking forward to details of the Fuji rangefinder version of the GFX - very much so in fact and I believe that the Fuji rangefinder version will be a very big challenge to Hasselblad XID form factor - the only thing 'wrong' with the GFX is the relative cunkiness in terms of body shape versus the elegance of the XID.

After decades of being a Leica fanboy and user as well as Hasselblad ( with side excursions on Leaf/Aptus/PhaseOne/Alpa blah blah blah ) I think the Fuji ecosystem in both APC and cropped MF sensor segments is a compelling value/quality proposition - going forward.

If you look at the sensor specs, the MP count, while a hefty upgrade, is not even the best feature. 100MP is a lot but there is also the fact it's BSI, The pixel pitch, which is going to make for potentially sharper images off the bat, 6 frames per second, the drastically reduced sensor read out for adapted lenses, 2K, 4K and 8K motion, 8K motion is at 18fps which opens up a RED camera type scenario with lifting 33MP still from the footage, the on sensor focus etc. This is all the tech that's missing from the traditional route of Phase One/Hasselblad H - I really think it's a revolution and the camera of the future.

I agree on points 1 and 3. Point 2 is swings and roundabouts - I find leaf shutters really useful but would also prefer a higher top end. They also have a lot less potential shutter slap. A leaf shutter is a better tool than a FP shutter in many instances for me. Combined with a much better electronic shutter it could be perfect for those times you need 1/16000 of a second outside. But if the Fuji gets IBIS, which I'm skeptical of this early, then that will be a Killer feature that Hasselblad would be worried about if they don't. But given DJI's involvement, they are placed to rectify this in time and possibly even by now. It will be exciting to see what happens. I can't see how IBIS is possible yet, with the size of the sensor to move around but it's possible Fuji had a breakthrough.

But I think the Fuji and Hasselblad cameras are both so good you just choose the one you prefer. Most of that will be around lens choices now. It's a good day to be being cameras and we have a lot of choice now and prices are significantly less.

 

[DB5]

All that said - I think that Fuji is carving out a dominant position in realistically priced cropped MF sensor market - I am borrowing a friend's GFX50 and a few lenses in order to compare shooting experience and files and will decide from there which way to go. I have to say the leaf shutter 2000th limit is a significant issue for my style of shooting and is probably the tipping point for a total system move - only made possible by the fact that Fuji lenses ( like Hasselblad's) are outstanding - I am looking forward to details of the Fuji rangefinder version of the GFX - very much so in fact and I believe that the Fuji rangefinder version will be a very big challenge to Hasselblad XID form factor - the only thing 'wrong' with the GFX is the relative cunkiness in terms of body shape versus the elegance of the XID.

After decades of being a Leica fanboy and user as well as Hasselblad ( with side excursions on Leaf/Aptus/PhaseOne/Alpa blah blah blah ) I think the Fuji ecosystem in both APC and cropped MF sensor segments is a compelling value/quality proposition - going forward.

Can you please let us know how your time with the Fuji goes? I'm in the same boat and would appreciate the comparison.

 

[jduncan]

The rumor mill is always silent when something big is about to drop. If there is nothing then a company starts leaking rumors to control the flow of departure.

Hi,

It's also quiet when nothing is coming.

This article contains some intriguing information on the comment section: https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/15/brand-disloyalty-mirrorless-and-why-its-good-for-everybody/

In particular:

Neal Spero says:
September 16, 2018, at 8:45 PM
We are before Photokina with Fuji R Fuji 100 mp New Leica’s 100 mp Hasselblad? Full frame Panasonic’s?The comments 10 days from now will be different

Reply Ming Thein says:
September 16, 2018, at 9:42 PM
Maybe from the fanboys, but if you can’t make a good image now, you’re not going to make a better one with more pixels – that requires higher shot discipline and higher clarity of thought in the details, not less…
Reply


So it seems that the X2D is far from ready. Also:

Jim says:
September 17, 2018, at 3:19 AM
I hope someone in a position to do something at Hasselblad reads your blog ��

While a 100MP X1D may be important to maintain competitiveness, I think more money would be made with a revision that a) remains affordable but b) makes the UI/haptics and internal capabilities more competitive with Fuji (or Sony or…). If the X1D performed as well as it looked, Hasselblad would have a tough time keeping them in stock.

Reply Ming Thein says:
September 17, 2018, at 7:59 AM
X1D: first generation, limited volume, limited budget, definitely room for improvement ��

Reply

So it seems they are working on it, but at the same time, I wonder if Ming Thein is still with the company. He could have answered: I actually work with them, but he did not. It could be cultural, but it looks unusual for my occidental mind.

I hope I am wrong, and Hasselblad is preparing to suprice us. Maybe not by Photokina. But they need to show something, before people desists. We know have Fuji on board, a company capable of compiting with Sony.

Best regards,

 

[DB5]

Hi,

It's also quiet when nothing is coming.

This article contains some intriguing information on the comment section: https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/15/brand-disloyalty-mirrorless-and-why-its-good-for-everybody/

In particular:

Neal Spero says:
September 16, 2018, at 8:45 PM
We are before Photokina with Fuji R Fuji 100 mp New Leica’s 100 mp Hasselblad? Full frame Panasonic’s?The comments 10 days from now will be different

Reply Ming Thein says:
September 16, 2018, at 9:42 PM
Maybe from the fanboys, but if you can’t make a good image now, you’re not going to make a better one with more pixels – that requires higher shot discipline and higher clarity of thought in the details, not less…
Reply


So it seems that the X2D is far from ready. Also:

Jim says:
September 17, 2018, at 3:19 AM
I hope someone in a position to do something at Hasselblad reads your blog ��

While a 100MP X1D may be important to maintain competitiveness, I think more money would be made with a revision that a) remains affordable but b) makes the UI/haptics and internal capabilities more competitive with Fuji (or Sony or…). If the X1D performed as well as it looked, Hasselblad would have a tough time keeping them in stock.

Reply Ming Thein says:
September 17, 2018, at 7:59 AM
X1D: first generation, limited volume, limited budget, definitely room for improvement ��

Reply

So it seems they are working on it, but at the same time, I wonder if Ming Thein is still with the company. He could have answered: I actually work with them, but he did not. It could be cultural, but it looks unusual for my occidental mind.

I hope I am wrong, and Hasselblad is preparing to suprice us. Maybe not by Photokina. But they need to show something, before people desists. We know have Fuji on board, a company capable of compiting with Sony.

Best regards,

I don't think Ming is in the position to say anything, this is a crucial stage in the game and no one is going to show their cards. Ming used to give a lot more info about Hasselblad but he has really pulled back lately.

I agree that it seems more and more unlikely we will see an X2D at Photokina 2018 but everything points to it coming soon. Fuji apparently wouldn't be ready to ship a 100MP GFX until later next year either.

 

[DB5]

X1D is now "OUT OF STOCK" on the Hasselblad online store.

:clap: :watch:

 

[jduncan]

X1D is now "OUT OF STOCK" on the Hasselblad online store.

:clap: :watch:

Hi,

Hope is the strongest art.

Best regards,

 

[PeterA]

Can you please let us know how your time with the Fuji goes? I'm in the same boat and would appreciate the comparison.

I will do.

 

[gmfotografie]

Remember DJI has the money... but please...
Hasselblad should not release the new one in 2018 or 2019 .... otherwise my wife is going to kill me; I´m scary ...

 

[satijntje]

Remember DJI has the money... but please...
Hasselblad should not release the new one in 2018 or 2019 .... otherwise my wife is going to kill me; I´m scary ...

My glass bowl says:
Presentation X2D: May 2019 (Photokina)
Earliest delivery to clients: July 2019
Normal availability for clients: October 2019

So enjoy your X1D's for the coming 12 months without a serious headache for a need for an upgrade!:watch:
John

 

[jduncan]

My glass bowl says:
Presentation X2D: May 2019 (Photokina)
Earliest delivery to clients: July 2019
Normal availability for clients: October 2019

So enjoy your X1D's for the coming 12 months without a serious headache for a need for an upgrade!:watch:
John

Hi,
In my view, If Hasselblad doesn't have anything to show by this year's Photokina, they will lose another opportunity to grow, another one that will not come back ever. For a little window, an X2D-100c will have a significant resolution advantage over FF. (tell me all that you want about how 50mp is enough, we are talking market share, and without it, there is nothing but death in the future of the company). A resolution advantage like this one is unlikely to happen again (the MF big sensor advantage is no longer 2x is 1.5x), even if it does, it will be less important once FF hits 75mp. I understand the need to have an advanced machine that corrects most of the "deficiencies" of the X1D, but if they can't deliver, an x1d-100c with better focusing and a better viewfinder will do. Then Hasselblad can take the time to release the X2D-100c with all the new technology, and the same sensor, in 2020.

Fewer words: Get a camera out, get the new lenses, stop the bleeding.

I ignore if the X mount is big enough to support technologies like IBIS, but even if it does, all the fancy technology is not going to help if the machine is too late: Sometimes, as they say, "Perfect is enemy of good".

Best regards,

 

[faberryman]

I ignore if the X mount is big enough to support technologies like IBIS, but even if it does, all the fancy technology is not going to help if the machine is too late: Sometimes, as they say, "Perfect is enemy of good".

The X-mount is not what supports IBIS; the larger XH1 body does.

 

[jduncan]

The X-mount is not what supports IBIS; the larger XH1 body does.

Hi,

It's more complicated than that. A bigger mount allows you to compensate for more movement, in the sense that it allows wider movements without moving the sensor "out of the mount" (shadowing).

Here is a nice explanation in the case of Fuji's X mount: https://www.fujirumors.com/fuji-man...are-observing-the-progress-of-organic-sensor/ by Fuji managers. Notice that it can be done, but it needs software compensation.

What you say seems common sense, but as you can see, in science and engineering going with "common sense" is a risky business.

Best regards,

 

[faberryman]

Hi,

It's more complicated than that. A bigger mount allows you to compensate for more movement, in the sense that it allows wider movements without moving the sensor "out of the mount" (shadowing).

Here is a nice explanation in the case of Fuji's X mount: https://www.fujirumors.com/fuji-man...are-observing-the-progress-of-organic-sensor/ by Fuji managers. Notice that it can be done, but it needs software compensation.

What you say seems common sense, but as you can see, in science and engineering going with "common sense" is a risky business.

Best regards,

I find the Fuji article interesting. The X-mount has a throat diameter of 44mm. Sony's E-mount has a throat diameter of 46mm yet allows coverage of a FF sensor and IBIS. I would have expected a 44mm throat diameter to be sufficient for the smaller APS-C sensor and IBIS.

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

I remember this from the X1D and my own pre-order experience.

Actual delivery: February 2020

My glass bowl says:
Presentation X2D: May 2019 (Photokina)
Earliest delivery to clients: July 2019
Normal availability for clients: October 2019

So enjoy your X1D's for the coming 12 months without a serious headache for a need for an upgrade!:watch:
John

 

[PeterA]

Hi,
In my view, If Hasselblad doesn't have anything to show by this year's Photokina, they will lose another opportunity to grow, another one that will not come back ever. For a little window, an X2D-100c will have a significant resolution advantage over FF. (tell me all that you want about how 50mp is enough, we are talking market share, and without it, there is nothing but death in the future of the company). A resolution advantage like this one is unlikely to happen again (the MF big sensor advantage is no longer 2x is 1.5x), even if it does, it will be less important once FF hits 75mp. I understand the need to have an advanced machine that corrects most of the "deficiencies" of the X1D, but if they can't deliver, an x1d-100c with better focusing and a better viewfinder will do. Then Hasselblad can take the time to release the X2D-100c with all the new technology, and the same sensor, in 2020.

Fewer words: Get a camera out, get the new lenses, stop the bleeding.

I ignore if the X mount is big enough to support technologies like IBIS, but even if it does, all the fancy technology is not going to help if the machine is too late: Sometimes, as they say, "Perfect is enemy of good".

Best regards,

FYI

Hasselblad just announced 3 new lenses and a teleconvertor - available as of December this year...of special interest is the 80/1.9 with dual focus motors - that is right f1.9 - pretty amazing comes with an amazing price tag as well the other 2 are mere f2.8 a 65 and 135 ( which the telconvertor is designed for.