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Phase One Takes Controlling Interest of Mamiya

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Food for thought...

Let's keep in mind that any new digital specific body is not confined to perform to film specs... IOW a current Mamiya 645 *lens* has an image circle of roughly 72mm -- and that IC would currently fill a 50mm x 50mm square sensor if the shutter box of the camera body were reconfigured to let it through.

However, the fact we know we're getting a vertical grip for the next Mamiya body eliminates that consideration from a practical standpoint -- but it remains something they could certainly plan for going forward *IF* the shutter box gets optimized.

Cheers,
 

LJL

New member
This is the philosophy that Leica has taken with the S2, no? Build a "pure" digital body and do not worry about accommodating film. (There are enough older film bodies in MF to handle those needs for most folks anyway.)

LJ
 

yaya

Active member
However, the fact we know we're getting a vertical grip for the next Mamiya body eliminates that consideration from a practical standpoint
Cheers,
Why is that? The only area where a vertical grip improves things is handheld shooting and even then one still has to pull the camera down in order to change settings or to view the LCD display.

On a tripod it makes no real difference, especially if one uses a remote cable release.

Yair
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Well I have long been a fan of Phase products, but not the M645. I hope Mamiya brings out a completely new camera worthy of the back, and yes I would expect it to be a closed system.
I totally agree with this. While I have not actually owned a Phase Back, I've worked with them and admire the company.

Same with the Leaf backs I've actually owned.

I was not that thrilled with the Mamiya AFD that the backs were mounted on. I know the AFD-II is better, but the things I didn't like haven't changed ... yet.

A Mamiya the equal to the Contax 645 (but with better AF), would be some serious competition for the H.

If Hasselblad comes forth with a focal plane shutter H camera ... they would blunt some of this and retain people like me much easier.
 
Why is that? The only area where a vertical grip improves things is handheld shooting and even then one still has to pull the camera down in order to change settings or to view the LCD display.

On a tripod it makes no real difference, especially if one uses a remote cable release.

Yair
Yair, I think what Jack is saying is that if it was a square sensor, there'd be no point in having a vertical grip?
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Even then. a vertical grip will be useful for those occasions when you are not certain which way is up.
-bob
 
D

DougDolde

Guest
Too bad they didn't invest in Contax. That would be worth something.

Hard to believe the new DF has no waist level finder ! Same dumb looking design except the vertical grip is new.

 
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JPlomley

Member
Would love to see a digital version of the Mamiya 7. Sort of an M8 on steroids. If it came in at 12-15K I'd sell my M8's in a heartbeat. Might provide some interesting competition against the S2 as well.
 

stephengilbert

Active member
Yair,

So your point is that no one should pay any attention to Phase/Mamiya products?

I'll try to remember that. Thanks, Steve
 

eleanorbrown

New member
I read this quote on the LL site. "Phase One backs will eventually appear under the Mamiya brand through existing and new distribution channels"....

Don't tell me Phase One backs will be called Mamiya instead of Phase One. Am I reading this correct? As a long time Phase back user I know Phase has been the leader in development of digital backs. I would hate to see the Phase One name disappear. Eleanor
 

yaya

Active member
Yair,

So your point is that no one should pay any attention to Phase/Mamiya products?

I'll try to remember that. Thanks, Steve
Excuse me? Did I ever put words in your mouth? I think not....

I've been using Mamiya products longer than many people on this board and my respect for both Phase and Mamiya is not a secret. I think that the people in both companies that I know in person are well aware of that.

And Jack I'm sorry that I got your words backwards!

Yair
 

John Black

Active member
IMO there are two market segments, 1) high end dSLR users looking for cross-over solution that's relatively the same price as a 1Ds3 or D3X, and 2) the high end market with P65+ buyers. It's pretty hard to move a 1Ds3 buyer from a $8k system to a $40k system. So, I expect to see the Mamiya branded backs & solutions to focus on the cross-over segment. Essentially lower-priced offerings intended to bring people into the fold. And then the Phase products will focus on the high end market.

It seems like Phase is moving towards a Zeiss business. Meaning, Phase will do the R&D, out-source the manufacturing and then distribute the finished product through their channels. The one variable that I cannot figure out is how Leica figures into this equation. That seems like a "Plan B" option for Phase and Leica. Or, maybe some quiet behind the scenes cooperation to make sure neither company steps on the other's toes?

I guess this is good for Phase owners, but as companies partner, competition thins and weaker companies cease to exist, the breadth of the product offerings contract. Price tends to be more polarized too. Pooling of resources is good for operational efficiencies, but that doesn't automatically mean better and more products.
 

carstenw

Active member
But what if I want to orient my square vertically Jack?

Bet you didn't think of that!
This already works for square sensors, by osmosis. No need to rotate the camera. Just think it, and it is done. The correct orientation is also managed by all software, even software which doesn't normally do this.
 

carstenw

Active member
I believe at this point that the Phase One/Leica relationship is only about using Capture One Pro for S2 raws.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
IMO there are two market segments, 1) high end dSLR users looking for cross-over solution that's relatively the same price as a 1Ds3 or D3X, and 2) the high end market with P65+ buyers. It's pretty hard to move a 1Ds3 buyer from a $8k system to a $40k system. So, I expect to see the Mamiya branded backs & solutions to focus on the cross-over segment. Essentially lower-priced offerings intended to bring people into the fold. And then the Phase products will focus on the high end market.

It seems like Phase is moving towards a Zeiss business. Meaning, Phase will do the R&D, out-source the manufacturing and then distribute the finished product through their channels. The one variable that I cannot figure out is how Leica figures into this equation. That seems like a "Plan B" option for Phase and Leica. Or, maybe some quiet behind the scenes cooperation to make sure neither company steps on the other's toes?

I guess this is good for Phase owners, but as companies partner, competition thins and weaker companies cease to exist, the breadth of the product offerings contract. Price tends to be more polarized too. Pooling of resources is good for operational efficiencies, but that doesn't automatically mean better and more products.
Those are good points John, especially the last paragraph.

If the idiosyncratic companies cease to exist, there are less and less chances of cameras like the highly innovative Contax 645, and more recent Hy6 being developed.

My observation on this is that it'll end up being survival of the fittest. Not necessarily the best solution but one that fits the broadest spectrum of the miniscule market that MF represents. What appears to be driving this are the MF camera companies that face swift extinction if they cannot forge a digital relationship with a back maker.

The unknown wild card here is just what the 35mm companies may do in future ... who would've thought Leica would move into this segment? What if Canon and/or Sony go there? Both those companies have resources and already make their own sensors. We all know that without a significant breakthrough in sensor design, 35mm DSLRs are close to maxed out.

These companies already have a built in potential sales base by providing an upgrade path to customers they already have a dialog with. Despite apparent brand jumping, there is actually a lot of brand loyalty intact. Sony and Zeiss are already tight. A medium format camera with a good 645 sensor and all new Zeiss modern AF Zeiss lenses ... basically where the Contax 645 could have gone ... hmmmm? What then?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Come on Steve, Phase is hardly losing anything in keeping the Mamiya AFD "open" at this point. Who is going to buy a Hasselblad back to stick on an AFD these days? Very different in the other direction. Lots of buyers of Phase and Leaf backs have put those backs on H series cameras. Were it not for Hasselblad closing the H3, Phase would still be functioning as a corporate leech and would never have moved to develop camera systems. This seems to be turning out to be well for everyone. (I hope.) Lots of choices that would not otherwise exist but for the H3D.
I also agree to this!
 
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