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I am thinking of getting the Fujifilm GFX 50S ....am I nuts ?

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I wonder how difficult it might be to hand hold the 100MP version when it comes. I know from using my 50MP Pentax 645Z hand held images were superb so I assume this 50MP model is just the same while using good technique during hand held captures. Sure I most always go for tripod, but on occasion hand held is necessary. For example, I am told from someone who was at Antelope Canyon in April, it is now better to opt for NO tripod in Antelope Canyon due to crowds and tripod restrictions.
The reality is that unless you are pixel peeping on screen at 100% the difference between a 50mp or 100mp image shot handheld will be pretty much identical in the same size print. In my experience I am almost always downsizing images for output these days, plus there are a number of great tools in PS and sharpening tools like piccure+ that manage to clean up handheld images where there are motion artifacts.

Now the big problem is that everyone does pixel peep at 100% and if you do that then yes you’ll inevitably see more evidence of motion blur at 100mp vs 50mp vs 24mp vs 12mp etc.

What I most like about the higher resolutions though is the increase in subtle tonality.

Btw, another thing to think about is that it’s not as though you are getting twice the linear resolution so even at the pixel peep level the same degree of movement you might resolve at 50mp is likely only a fraction of a pixel more even at 100mp.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
For me it's also a lot about platform.

Net, I use hand held for 75% of my GFX work, panos, and stills, love it. You can use the ES hand held, albeit it at higher shutter speeds, but it can be done.

XF/IQ100, very rarely hand held, just too much weight, mirror slap etc. If you use Vibration reduction on the XF hand held, it will never fire as it picks up your motion. (well sure it will wait for however long you have it set in time then fire). P1 Schneider went no OIS/VR on their glass, and that was their call. Hand held telephoto, really no way at least for me. So XF always mean tripod for me. Thus it tends to only get used now on trips where I want to carry the extra weigh.

Not to get off subject, but startup times. P1 12 to 14 seconds, with a 64 or 128GB card. GFX 1 second. Turn it on and by the time you have placed your eye to the finder, you are ready to shoot.

I love the files from the IQ100, and agree on the subtle tonality within. I see a lot of that with the GFX as I did with the IQ250.

Still feel that Sept 2018 will be an important month for P1. Odds are they will have the first 100MP 44 x 33 on the market in the IQ platform, (I base this on past deals P1 and Sony have made), so 2019 will be a good year for mirrorless.

Paul Caldwell
 

DB5

Member
I heard from a P1 dealer that internally people at Phase One are divided.

Some are really worried about the GFX and X1D, some think they should open C1 up to Fuji and Blad. Others don't and don't think it's much of a threat.

Whatever way you look at it, the Fuji is a screaming deal. I personally prefer the Hasselblad, it's actually very fortuitous for both Hasselblad and Fuji that the cameras are quite different. Maybe they knew what each other were doing.

If you are looking for a system to start a fresh with, you just can't go past the Fuji or the Hasselblad. I agree that the Fuji is the better system camera at this stage but I really think the Hasselblad will become more modular too as they get the funds to develop it with - something they didn't have at the time of designing the X1D.

Fuji will bring out the rangefinder and it will be more like the X1D and Hasselblad will, I'm sure, bring out something to make the X1D more modular like the GFX.

I really like the Fuji because you can adapt lenses more freely without having to worry about the electronic shutter which at 1/3rd of a second is usable but very limited.

I'm ready to buy the X2D, I think. Exciting times. I really hope Phase One have something up their sleeve but I'm not waiting around for them because I think this disruption really has taken them by surprise and I think they sunk all their money into the XF. A camera I no longer have any interest in. Look how many of them are for sale these days.
 

DB5

Member
Hopefully IBIS will be part of the 100mp system. Fuji has it in their X-H1 and it work well.

Fuji only has OIS in a couple of their GF lenses.

Paul C
Yeah, I've actually wondered if that ugly back hump of the GFX-50 has been making room for the IBIS for GFX-100 all along.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Yeah, I've actually wondered if that ugly back hump of the GFX-50 has been making room for the IBIS for GFX-100 all along.
I thought it had more to do with the battery placement. Either way, IBIS in the GFX would really make it even more hand-holdable than it already is.

I don't think anyone here is going to tell you're nuts for wanting to get the GFX. Poke around and you'll see that this forum is full of enablers :p

The biggest thing with the GFX (and X1D) is figuring out when to buy. There's rumored to be a cheaper GFX rangefinder on the horizon as well as the new 100 mp model next year. Do you get the GFX now, wait for the rangefinder, wait for the GFX-100 and buy it, or wait for the GFX-100 and buy a used GFX-50s/rangefinder? You'll have to figure that out yourself based on your own circumstances (and wallet)
 
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Paul2660

Well-known member
Yeah, I've actually wondered if that ugly back hump of the GFX-50 has been making room for the IBIS for GFX-100 all along.
Hump is mainly due to the LCD articulation mechanism. Fuji had thought about going the X1D way and no screen movement, however "thankfully" they did not. If I was still young and had the joints of a 20 year old, I would re-consider the X1D, but I still like to shoot like I did when I was 20, thus I love a tilting screen, period. It just makes low angle and off angle work that much easier. I realize that is a personal issue to everyone.

Actually the only problems I found in the body, are:

1. placement of the Q button, IMO stupid location on grip, hit it constantly.
2. the strap lugs, (what was Fuji thinking there)
3. No shutter release from touch screen. Touch for AF, but no Shutter. (nikon, P1 both have this)
4. Focus peaking, Fuji IMO needs to pay Sony and mirror their model. I use it a lot with Pentax, and Nikon D850 (Nikon's implementation is excellent) and Fuji is just to me strange.
5. Massive over view when zooming in. Fuji, double tap on the screen should go to only 100% view, instead it goes to like 200 or more. You can't tell anything and have to pinch the screen back down. The Live View is the same implementation.

Software only problem is that Adobe did their one and done pass, and LR/ACR pulls a lot more noise out the files than C1. C1 on the other hand you need to work around the wall.

I also prefer the dealer model, and now as my dealer handles Fuji, it's very easy for me to stay there. Fuji's tech support unless you picked up their extra fee support for the GFX is iffy at best. Luckily the camera has been pretty trouble free.

I agree the X1D is a simpler platform, has the looks, etc. But no zooms yet, 30 to 40 percent more (however X1D pricing continues to drop not as much on the lenses). I just prefer the advantage I get from a zoom and the Fuji GF 32-64 is excellent through out the range.

With the new lenses announced last week, Fuji is going to have a very rounded out platform.

Paul C
 

DB5

Member
I thought it had more to do with the battery placement. Either way, IBIS in the GFX would really make it even more hand-holdable than it already is.

I don't think anyone here is going to tell you're nuts for wanting to get the GFX. Poke around and you'll see that this forum is full of enablers :p

The biggest thing with the GFX (and X1D) is figuring out when to buy. There's rumored to be a cheaper GFX rangefinder on the horizon as well as the new 100 mp model next year. Do you get the GFX now, wait for the rangefinder, wait for the GFX-100 and buy it, or wait for the GFX-100 and buy a used GFX-50s/rangefinder? You'll have to figure that out yourself based on your own circumstances (and wallet)


You're right, I think that is the trickiest part! I think we'll see them announced at Photokina and I think I'm going to jump in on pre order.
 

DB5

Member
Hump is mainly due to the LCD articulation mechanism. Fuji had thought about going the X1D way and no screen movement, however "thankfully" they did not. If I was still young and had the joints of a 20 year old, I would re-consider the X1D, but I still like to shoot like I did when I was 20, thus I love a tilting screen, period. It just makes low angle and off angle work that much easier. I realize that is a personal issue to everyone.

Actually the only problems I found in the body, are:

1. placement of the Q button, IMO stupid location on grip, hit it constantly.
2. the strap lugs, (what was Fuji thinking there)
3. No shutter release from touch screen. Touch for AF, but no Shutter. (nikon, P1 both have this)
4. Focus peaking, Fuji IMO needs to pay Sony and mirror their model. I use it a lot with Pentax, and Nikon D850 (Nikon's implementation is excellent) and Fuji is just to me strange.
5. Massive over view when zooming in. Fuji, double tap on the screen should go to only 100% view, instead it goes to like 200 or more. You can't tell anything and have to pinch the screen back down. The Live View is the same implementation.

Software only problem is that Adobe did their one and done pass, and LR/ACR pulls a lot more noise out the files than C1. C1 on the other hand you need to work around the wall.

I also prefer the dealer model, and now as my dealer handles Fuji, it's very easy for me to stay there. Fuji's tech support unless you picked up their extra fee support for the GFX is iffy at best. Luckily the camera has been pretty trouble free.

I agree the X1D is a simpler platform, has the looks, etc. But no zooms yet, 30 to 40 percent more (however X1D pricing continues to drop not as much on the lenses). I just prefer the advantage I get from a zoom and the Fuji GF 32-64 is excellent through out the range.

With the new lenses announced last week, Fuji is going to have a very rounded out platform.

Paul C
That articulating screen is very good, and when they released the GFX, my jaw literally hit the floor when they showed the tilt swivel EVF adapter. That is next level design and evolution and I think it's going to show up everywhere in the future. Seminal design. Fuji really knocked it out of the park with the GFX, and it just shows how much pedigree they have with design and medium format design from the last several decades.

I think in defence of Hasselblad, it really was a last ditch attempt to stay in the game, and it worked. It will be really interesting to see how it develops n future now they have some cash in the bank and some hunger for their products again.
 

Boinger

Active member
I tried the GFX in store yesterday,

And I got to say that EVF is wayyyyy better than the x1d's. It's so much bigger not just the resolution, it's almost tempting to get it for that!
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I heard from a P1 dealer that internally people at Phase One are divided.

Some are really worried about the GFX and X1D, some think they should open C1 up to Fuji and Blad. Others don't and don't think it's much of a threat.
If I were Phase One I’d take $299 per Fuji sale because that sale is going to happen anyway. Lack of C1 Pro support isn’t going to encourage someone to pay 3-4x the price of a camera for a Phase One back vs an alternative.

Those of us that own and use Phase One backs do so in ADDITION to the fuji. Now if Phase One had a comparable competitive system to Hasselblad / Fuji at a similar price point I might understand better. I would wager that they are losing more MF sales to Sony A7RII/III 42mp systems which they DO support.

My $0.02.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I tried the GFX in store yesterday,

And I got to say that EVF is way better than the x1d's. It's so much bigger not just the resolution, it's almost tempting to get it for that!
It’s certainly not designed by an Italian car designer (Guigiaro for Nikon F6 and D series) but it is very functional. Ok, purely functional. I don’t like the play / delete button position but otherwise I like it a lot.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
You make too much sense, Graham. I almost wish I bought a Range Rover Sport like yours ...:ROTFL:

Now if Phase One announced a mirrorless camera at ~$15K at Photokina, then their C1 Pro business plan would make more sense.

Fingers-crossed for a Phase One new mirrorless camera (Dante's forum compels it). But I won't hold my breath for C1 Pro support for the Fuji GFX.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Play button is in a awkward location, but the Q button really is my issue. Constantly hit it. I would love to be able to disable it, as I don't use it on the GFX or X series.

Paul Caldwell
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Not to slam P1, but a mirrorless from them, lets just say, will be a learning experience. They have nothing even close it currently.

They need to either redesign all new lenses, or make an adapter for current Schnieders or both. Fuji's previous X series cameras gave them a lot of knowledge as to feature function. However weight/mass of current Schneiders from P1, would really be a balancing act on a mirrorless body. You need an XF to work with them.

But Hasselblad did it, with the X1D, so I can clearly see P1 doing something, it's inevitable. Nikon and Canon both should be showing something in the full frame mirrorless later this year, so mirror less is the future for most cameras.

But for sure the P1 offering, whenever it happens, will not compete price wise with Fuji or Hasselblad.

September 2018 could be interesting for sure.

Paul C
 
M

mjr

Guest
I'm used to the Q button now, only rarely hit it but it is in a daft place. As for the play button, I just remapped it to the button directly above the 4 way controller, below joystick, super easy to use there and never bother with the one on top. In fact, with on/off exposure preview on left controller button, timer on the top controller button, focus stack setup on the right, horizon on top button above the Q and rear focus, there is nothing else I need, it's entirely controllable without taking the camera from my eye, love it! I only ever shoot in manual mode but never use either the top dials for shutter speed or iso or the aperture ring, just do it all from the front and rear scroll wheels. It's an incredible easy camera to use, I haven't gone in to the menu once since I initially set it up.

Mat
 

narikin

New member
Not to slam P1, but a mirrorless from them, lets just say, will be a learning experience. They have nothing even close it currently.

They need to either redesign all new lenses, or make an adapter for current Schnieders or both. Fuji's previous X series cameras gave them a lot of knowledge as to feature function. However weight/mass of current Schneiders from P1, would really be a balancing act on a mirrorless body. You need an XF to work with them.

Paul C
Agreed. and to add, the XF lenses all were designed as heavily retrofocus to account for that large mirrorbox, which.... is no longer needed in a mirrorless body. A lot of the reason Leica's lenses were rated higher than Canon/Nikon in film days was simply that - it was mirrorless, allowing a 'purer' lens design, especially from slight wide to wider.

Yes it's a big ask, but I too feel they have to jump. I love and need big Mp cameras, and Phase/C1 pipeline quality, but will certainly buy a 100mp Fuji GFX2, for its features, AF abilities and ease of use. I'll probably upgrade to the 150mp Phase back too, but if I find myself leaving it at home too much, then it will be sold.

Phase may have the high ground, but the waters are rising around them. If they don't see that, then they will be in trouble.
 

narikin

New member
On a related note: How do people find the Fuji 63mm and/or 45mm lenses.

The Fuji MTF charts are a joke. Theoretical, no aperture given, but apparently they out-resolve by far any Zeiss Otus or any lens ever made! Which is clearly a big bag of twaddle.

I'd expect they are poor at f2.8, but by f4 and certainly f5.6 should be good. But are they really good, or just good?
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Just returned from Scotland and need to finish loading the image files before I can see them on a larger screen than my 15" laptop; that said the system continues to impress me. I went on this trip with 3-Fuji lenses (32-64, 45 and 23) as well as a Mamiya APO 200 with 2x. I had thought I'd have the 250 with 1.4 however that didn't happen and am currently waiting for FedEx to show up.I've had the system since around March/April last year and have used it in shooting in the desert, dark spaces of Silo City in Buffalo, as well as in rain, snow and sleet this past winter. It has been used to capture landscape, nature and wildlife (moose in Jackson Hole WY). I've used this to capture the Milky Way and Northern Light in Alaska this past Jan. And then there's the trip I just returned from.Just as a side note - I had a 63 f/2.8 however just didn't feel the love; not that it was a bad lens it just wasn't for me.the 32-64 is my most used lens followed by the Mamiya APO 200 which will be replaced shortly by the GF250. I feel the 45 and 23 both have their uses and when need I don't hesitate to use either. In short I've found all the Fuji lenses to be excellent and worth the money.I've shared some images from this past trip on our Instagram page (Iron Creek Photography) as well as the GFX Facebook page. I'll see about sharing some here if time permits.Have to run as FedEx is stopping....
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
+1 to what Gerd said.

I have been extremely happy with the quality of every GF lens I’ve bought so far.
 
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