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Thread: Mamiya 645 DF

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    Mamiya 645 DF

    There seems to be a new Mamiya body out in Japan, although it is not yet clear exactly what the difference is, if any, other than the vertical grip. Does anyone know more?

    Google translation of Mamiya webpage:

    http://translate.google.com/translat...0A&sl=ja&tl=en
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    This looks very interesting as it seems to accommodate more batteries - but as virtually all my MFDB work is on a tripod, I doubt I'll be a buyer.

    Bill

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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    The 645 DF appears to be able to use the new leaf shutter (LS) series of lenses with flash synch up to 1/500th. Also from the rough Google translation, something about a built-in radio transmitter to trigger remote flash heads, ala Pocket Wizard, etc. Hopefully it will transmit on frequencies that are commonly used by the numerous devices now used in studios.
    Last edited by Jeff Turner; 26th March 2009 at 05:37.
    Jeff T.
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Not to put too fine a point on things, but just where is the line of leaf shutter (LS) lenses that have been promised for, what....a year and half or more now?

    This new 645 DF, is looking more and more like a super-sized DSLR now. I am sure the extra batteries help, and having that vertical grip will better accommodate some shooters for sure, but is there anything significant in this model? Just curious, as the info does not seem to say much beyond marketing hype.

    LJ

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Not to put too fine a point on things, but just where is the line of leaf shutter (LS) lenses that have been promised for, what....a year and half or more now?
    People keep talking about the leaf shutter lenses, but... Mamiya announced just one prototype leaf shutter lens six months ago. No news since then.
    http://www.mamiya.co.jp/news_mdinr08090015_eng.html

    This is a world apart from a whole range of leaf shutters lenses sitting on the retailer's shelf.

    I can't help thinking that a body like the Mamiya or Contax could become much more interesting if someone developed a superfast focal plane shutter with 1/500 flash sync. No need for new lenses that way, and you get the best of both worlds - fast shutter speed when you need it, simpler and cheaper lenses, decent flash sync speed. I guess someone would have done this by now if it were possible

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    A good 250 would be fine by me but 500 would certainly be huge in a focal plane when we can use our existing glass
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    It used to exist.....the Canon 1D, the one with the CCD sensor, had a 1/500s sync speed. I know guys that keep one around just to do indoor sports arena flash shooting. While the flash may be able to "freeze" the action, if the shutter is still open, you get ghosting. It may be harder to do with a much bigger shutter on MF, but it was done nicely on 35mm before ;-)

    LJ

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    It used to exist.....the Canon 1D, the one with the CCD sensor, had a 1/500s sync speed. I know guys that keep one around just to do indoor sports arena flash shooting. While the flash may be able to "freeze" the action, if the shutter is still open, you get ghosting. It may be harder to do with a much bigger shutter on MF, but it was done nicely on 35mm before ;-)

    LJ
    That wasn't quite 35mm Sensor size was 27.0 x 17.8mm which meant the shutter could be even smaller and faster.

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    That wasn't quite 35mm Sensor size was 27.0 x 17.8mm which meant the shutter could be even smaller and faster.
    True, and that was partly the point.

    There is some interesting stuff coming from the other end of things....flash triggering. If you look at some of the newly published stuff for those newer PocketWizard devices, it seems possible that some cameras are able to achieve a higher sync speed than posted because the flash triggering device is working differently. Have no idea if that is even remotely possible with something like the Mamiya body, but it is now happening with FF 35mm DSLR bodies, so maybe there is hope.

    LJ

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    True, and that was partly the point.

    There is some interesting stuff coming from the other end of things....flash triggering. If you look at some of the newly published stuff for those newer PocketWizard devices, it seems possible that some cameras are able to achieve a higher sync speed than posted because the flash triggering device is working differently. Have no idea if that is even remotely possible with something like the Mamiya body, but it is now happening with FF 35mm DSLR bodies, so maybe there is hope.

    LJ
    I think you might be referring to what is effectively continuous lighting for the duration of the exposure, which is not the same as flash sync, even though is uses flash units. It's a clever idea but not the same thing, and flash duration is not as short as 'real' flash and therefore won't freeze action the same way.

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Well, as I have read it, the HyperSync capability has two different approaches. One is a longer duration flash, as you suggest, the other is more of a timing issue when the flash gets triggered, and is calibrated to the camera. Here is the review and explanation in the Rob Galbraith site:

    http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/mul...9884-9903-9906

    While this is only available for Canon and soon Nikon and others, the concept should be able to be extended to other cameras. Timing is everything ;-)

    LJ

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    It used to exist.....the Canon 1D, the one with the CCD sensor, had a 1/500s sync speed. I know guys that keep one around just to do indoor sports arena flash shooting. While the flash may be able to "freeze" the action, if the shutter is still open, you get ghosting. It may be harder to do with a much bigger shutter on MF, but it was done nicely on 35mm before ;-)

    LJ

    This was an electronic shutter, not a true 1/500 x-sync. So obviously it wouldn't work on film, but that begets the question...why can't we have electronic shutters on MF digital cameras, or just on the back if also film-capable?

    Minolta had a 1/300 shutter on the 9...but it was backed down to 1/250 or less on the A900, so they must be hitting a limit.

    A focal plane leaf shutter of some sort would be intruiguing. It would obviously add to camera size to accomodate the multiple curtains/flaps.

    Greg

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    The grip in the picture is still the mockup that has been shown for months. It would be nice to see it going into production (or at least a working prototype) sooner rather than later.

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Yeah, the grip caught my eye. Some of the fit around the edges is a little off and crooked, but I suppose it is just a final prototype or a pre-production model.
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Yeah, the grip caught my eye. Some of the fit around the edges is a little off and crooked, but I suppose it is just a final prototype or a pre-production model.
    It's a mockup, see the release button and the wheels. Been into this business in previous life I know what I'm talking about.

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Hah, an early mould, or something. I didn't even notice that, just that the rubber was really poorly fit around the regular trigger.
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    The grip in the picture is still the mockup that has been shown for months. It would be nice to see it going into production (or at least a working prototype) sooner rather than later.

    Yair

    Hey - at least it's not wood anymore!


    Steve Hendrix
    Phase One

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/Phase One View Post
    Hey - at least it's not wood anymore!


    Steve Hendrix
    Phase One
    The one in the pic could well be a wooden one...that is if you consider MDF to be some kind of wood:-)
    But it is most likely to be polyurethane foam - the more dense type that mills nicely on a CNC.

    Anyway it would be great to see a real working one and even better if it can be fitted to the whole AFD/II/III range.
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  19. #19
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/Phase One View Post
    Hey - at least it's not wood anymore!

    Steve Hendrix
    Phase One
    Why does it happen.... that after 3 years of waffling about Digital MF, that the moment I'm about to make a decision, the game seems to change again...

    I've got a client who's interested in helping me finally procure some digital MF stuff, so I'm makin' my list (checking it twice!), and now in the space of one month we've got changes related to MF at F&H, Phase, Mamiya, Calumet, you name it.

    Argg...

    Back to my original plan... Contax and an original p25, lol.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Shelby I have a P25 Plus in Mamiya mount that I want to get a P30 Plus so it is for sale. Shameless plug. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  21. #21
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Shelby I have a P25 Plus in Mamiya mount that I want to get a P30 Plus so it is for sale. Shameless plug. LOL
    (Ignore that this is going OT)

    Plug away Guy... send me a note as to what you're interested in selling it for. I'm a canon shooter (who doesn't like canon or nikon... am intrigued with the a900 however)... but every time I shoot something like the pics below (all from various high school senior portrait session), I wish I had the bit depth and "umph" that MF provides.

    Do I wanna shoot every frame with it... nah... just mostly

    All with the lowly canon 5D (man i'd love more DR and cleaner skies):



    or this (HEAVY manipulation here):


    or this:


    or this (get where this is going ):

  22. #22
    jmvdigital
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Shelby, you should definitely move to MF... cause these shots are terrible!

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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Shelby,

    Justin is being a bit sarchastic, but I agree with him in that your images show outstanding talent and artistic appeal, and IMO are being limited only by the technical performance of whatever gear you shot them with. You are clearly ready to make the move to MF!

    ,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  24. #24
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by jmvdigital View Post
    Shelby, you should definitely move to MF... cause these shots are terrible!
    Now THAT was funny... time do go back to shooting rebels I guess.


  25. #25
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Shelby,

    Justin is being a bit sarchastic, but I agree with him in that your images show outstanding talent and artistic appeal, and IMO are being limited only by the technical performance of whatever gear you shot them with. You are clearly ready to make the move to MF!

    ,
    Wow... such kind words. Just walked in after a brutal day shooting a wedding, and comments like that make my feet ache a little less.

    Can we start an endowment for me here at GetDpi?

    Thanks Jack, much appreciated.
    Shelby

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    Member dogstarnyc's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Jack is spot on, you show great creative talent and like a lot of you want it all !!!! Great highlight and show detail, I stayed with mt Fuji S5 and it sitslong side the MF kit... both give me fab dynamic range.

    I know...... you buy my ZD back.... I buy Guy's P25.... he gets then to buy the P30 he wants...


  27. #27
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 645 DF

    Sounds good to me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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