:bugeyes:
What are they smoking? The days of having to spend this sort of money are over. Especially when it's only really about another 50MP.
It seems to me they are stuck too far up their own lower-orifice to see what is happening out there.
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Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.
- Thread starter dougpeterson
- Start date
What are they smoking? The days of having to spend this sort of money are over. Especially when it's only really about another 50MP.
It seems to me they are stuck too far up their own lower-orifice to see what is happening out there.
Nice write up as always Doug and I am sure this back will sell well.
I would have liked to see more direction towards,
Sensor stabilization, (any type of stability) Focus more than one Single point in the center, phase detect, VR/IR etc on the glass, EVF as an option, new higher milliamp batteries for back and XF
Not sure where or what I would do with C1 on the Back, I can't work on that small a screen and C1 needs a lot of horse power to work the 100MP raw files, and Open GL. Why would you want to burn up your already short lived battery with processing on a camera screen? I am sure I missing the bigger picture here.
Glad to see they figured out how to get focus peaking into the 150MP back, sad that a simple firmware update can't deliver it to the 100MP systems, and don't tell me it can't be done. Just look at what Hasselblad and Fuji brought to a 50MP chip that Phase had in it's hands for over 3 years before they did.
Overall, I knew I would not be looking for 150MP, as 100MP in 16 bit and layering is already taking me to PSB for most of my 3100 files. The fact I still prefer to hike and carry gear means such as system would always be on a tripod, and I loose freedom immediately. The cost is out of sight anyway at least for me. And my business I can't justify it just for 23% more resolution. I am also so surprised to see that since the "tricolor" technology is "the best color available" it did not make into this chip. So now you have a choice, best color at 100MP or best resolution at 150MP.
P1 always handles these announcements with great fanfare, and they have out done themselves again. I wish them the best with the camera and I am sure they will get plenty of new orders and upgrades. Hopefully the BSI chip will help the tech camera users with color cast.
Paul C
Christopher
Active member
What Ethernet and USB standard is the back using?
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Thanks!
Sensor stabilization would require motion compensation hardware near the sensor, and I can confirm the IQ4 does not have that.
The rest of these suggestions all seem totally doable and I will pass them on to the R+D team for you!
The marketing phrase "Capture One Inside" is probably more usefully put, technically, as "Capture One Algorithms Inside".
The idea here isn't that you'd have the Capture One GUI (imagine how small the icons would be!) but that the on board processing of the on-screen previews and optional JPGs is now using the same math and engine as Capture One. That means the exposure, color, sharpness, and noise reduction will all more closely match the final image in C1. It also means you will (eventually) be able to use the same styles in C1 and IQ4; the mind automatically jumps to "instagram" looks (strong heavy-handed adjustments) but this would apply equally to subtle changes (e.g. you typically apply a bit of shadow recovery, darken blues in color editor a hair, and set the sharpening lower than default). It also opens up some interesting ideas that I can't talk about.
Indeed I agree the evidence is that the 50mp sensor could provide the required data stream to do a good live focus mask / focus peaking.
But the IQ1/2/3 turned out not to have the processing power to do the math behind such a feature (with sufficient speed to be useful). Not being able to implement features like this was one of the reasons why P1 put such effort into building a platform with lots of compute power for years to come and a software stack that was modular enough to allow rapid development of new features.
Obviously your call on what each feature/tool is worth to you and your business. Both are great backs, and to some extent you are comparing two top-end Maseratis; if you spend too much time focused on the advantages/differences between them it's easy to lose track of the fact they are both very very very good
.We have a chart comparing the features of IQ4 vs IQ3/2/1 and the differences between the 150mp and 100mp IQ4 models.
The IQ4 150mp compared to the IQ4 100mp has more resolution (duh), another stop worth of ISO range, a faster sensor-based electronic shutter (ES), a faster capture rate, and less color cast / better compatibility with tech cameras.
Phase One also says the color on the IQ4 150mp sensor didn't require a trichromatic CFA to get to where they want, and that they have no intention of making an IQ4 150mp with a trichromatic filter. Though I can't stand behind this claim until we've done our own in-house testing (we will, of course, make the raws available).
While using the IQ4 150mp at 100% pixel output would increase your Photoshop files even further:
1) There is no obligation to process at 100%. There are advantages to having the res when you want it even if you *usually* don't use it all. For example, every lens becomes a moderate-zoom, in that if you only want 100mp TIFF files you can crop quite a bit on any frame and not change the output. "Digital Zoom" got a bad rap because it was a "feature" of low quality low resolution cameras. But "Digital Zoom" (i.e. the habit of routinely cropping in post to gain a different effective focal length is not abhorrent in light of starting with 150 megapixels.
2) Computers get faster every year. Handling a 1GB PSB today is as easy as a 100MB TIFF was a few years ago. If you go back to today's work in ten years, you could process the 150mp file at full res and work with it at several times the speed you work with it today down-sampled to 100mp.
No on chip multi point AF? sensor stabilaization? sensor shift? eye recognition? it is 2018 and i expected a bit more TBH, its almost as if phase did the easy things instead of pushing for something truly 21st century. at the price they charge the backs should offer everything a flagship camera system from other manufacturers does (MFD and 35mm) and more if they want to be considered the ultimate.
dont think this will tempt me back to MFD, just doesn't make sense for my business.
dont think this will tempt me back to MFD, just doesn't make sense for my business.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Ethernet 1G and USB-C.
Christopher
Active member
USB 3.0? 3.1? Both can use usb-c
Doug, how many kidneys do you have left to sold??
DougDolde
Well-known member
Two. No plans to sell
I think the interesting meta-story here is that Phase One is placing all their chips on the high end of the high end; they are not even going to try to compete with the 645Z/GFX50S/X1D class of products.
That's not in any way intended as a criticism, just an observation. They know their business a whole lot better than I do, and obviously they've concluded that they can make this strategy work.
That's not in any way intended as a criticism, just an observation. They know their business a whole lot better than I do, and obviously they've concluded that they can make this strategy work.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Great Question! Pretty sure it's one of the 3.1 flavors. I'll confirm and get back to you.
Hi,
Very good.
with this basically match the areas where the H6D was better (dual slots, pitch to zoom, USB-C etc) and keeps the areas were the Phase One was better like focus staking.
This is important :
"The company itself has also reorganized to reflect this new way of thinking. Development for Hasselblad H, Hasselblad V, and Contax has ended"
As expected is impossible to support the "open platform" when the cameras are super expensive to develop. Hasselblad closed the platform because other companies expected them to carry the full load of the H system for free.
That is an issue of the past, we know P1 is not into "open" Capture One is an example. Not an issue one does not expect a coorporation or company to be altruistic to the point of severly hampering the bontom line.
Let's hope the IQ4 platform proves to be stable, long life to the modular systems.
Best regards,
We really don't know that Phase isn't feverishly working on a mirrorless camera system that will compete. Hasselblad did it, with far less resources than Phase One. My sense is that there is a niche in this market for a Phase version that carries a premium price tag. Hasselblad rushed the X1D out the door prematurely. Phase wouldn't do the same, so no surprise that it hasn't hit the market yet. What complicates the analysis is that Phase is owned by a private equity firm that is very likely at this point to be looking to exit. Unclear how the existing owners feel about spending huge R&D money now to create a whole new system of cameras and lenses, particularly when the XF is only a few years old and cost a tremendous amount of time and money to develop. It's a bitter pill to accept that the XF was way too late to market and is now viewed by many as an overweight dinosaur.
Bill Caulfeild-Browne
Well-known member
But it's still got the best files of any dinosaur I've used....and I've used most of them!
Bill
Bill
What we know is that Phase One has discontinued all crop-sensor (33x44mm) products and that a central theme of the marketing blitz for IQ4 is the deprecation of crop-sensor.
So sure, in the long run anything is possible - we've certainly seen companies turn on a dime from "X is the best because blah blah blah" to "Y is the best because bleh bleh bleh". But I think a mirrorless system based on 40x54mm sensors is very unlikely in the near future, for both technical and marketing reasons.
AFAIK, Phase has only discontinued backs with cropped sensors. The only thing I saw that could be viewed as "deprecating" cropped sensor systems was the graphic on the Phase web page showing a comparison of the size of the "full" IQ4 sensor with the FF 35mm sensor and the cropped MF sensor. I would not interpret that as a signal from Phase that it won't develop a system with a cropped sensor. The IQ4 150 at $50k is otherwordly. The new Phase mirrorless at $15k is merely spectacular. Phase doesn't worry about being hypocritical.
I will say that, if Phase is NOT developing a mirrorless system with the cropped sensor, I think it's lights out. The merry go round of selling new backs with ever increasing megapixel counts at nosebleed prices is grinding to a halt. I see what's happening with the customer base represented here who were very loyal Phase One customers and dutifully upgraded each step along the way, even after saying 39MP were enough, then 65 megapixels, then 80 megapixels, and then 100 megapixels. There are terrific alternatives now. The Hasselblad and the Fuji are unbelievably capable, and so much smaller and lighter than an XF system. The lenses are spectacular. 100 megapixel versions are coming soon. Yes, they are also cheaper, but that's not the real driver for so many of the former Phase customers.
Anyway, back to the story proper: just jumped through the hoops to download the sample raws and the C1 update needed to read them... now my P800 is starting to churn out a monochrome conversion of the Nyhavn scene at 12x16.3", 720ppi.
Purely for entertainment, as I can't remotely afford one. But I'm curious just the same...
Purely for entertainment, as I can't remotely afford one. But I'm curious just the same...