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Phase One IQ4 series. Much more than resolution.

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Is it true that initial IQ4 units are not arriving as originally forecast?
As of last week we expected the first pre-production preview unit to arrive to our NYC Phase One Demo Center today. Instead the first pre-production preview unit will be arriving to our LA office on Sunday in time for our Phase One IQ4 Event in LA on Monday.

So, technically two business days later than originally forecasted :).
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Doug
Lucky you guys, as another dealer is cancelling planned demo days for next week and beyond.
Couldn't speak to that, but we'll have it in LA and NYC for events next week; you're very welcome to come!

We have a bunch more cities in the works, but not yet 100% confirmed on date/time/location. Stay tuned.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
BUT my one disagreement is with the above quoted section. That seems more like the first pre-emptive shot across the bows for the upcoming 100mp Fuji, which rumor has it, has IBIS. It will be a great addition to MF digital, and Fuji, as you yourself admit, have possibly the best IBIS tech out there. Ok, it doesn't fix moving subjects, but it doesn't in 35mm either, and nobody is saying it's pointless for that! If anything, it will be *more* effective in MF than FF 35, as any movements are exaggerated with the bigger lens throw. Bring it on, I say. If Phase can't get that tech, then... sorry, but I'm moving on!
Dropping $22k for yet another upgrade seems like a strange way of “moving on.”
 
Another victim of Dante, mine is ordered.
I still use a P25-back on my Contax 645 and I admit that I was last week tempted to buy a new IQ50-XF-80mm kit, for which DT had a special offer at their new shop-site (I think it was 15k). C1 is a wonderful piece of software and I even like the XF and the Danish/Scandinavian design philosophy and corporate culture of perfectionism, all things, I can imagine to invest in. But then I thought about the narrative and perspectives for the future and decided, it will not be for me, why?

1) the upgrade trap: all these relatively cheap new-old-stock or CPO offers will expire soon enough and then there will be left only these absurdly overpriced 645 backs: 22k to upgrade from a 100MP to the new 150MP back, this is ludicrous ... P1 lost me here (wasn't the IQ3100 kit launched at 49k and now the new IQ4150 kit at 52k?, so in a bit more than 2 years the loss is 19k?).

2) the lenses: yes, there are some gems, but there are also still too much slouches at strategic points in the line-up (think 28/55/80/150). If P1 had the consistency and the breath-taking quality and character of Leica S line-up, yes that would be a big selling point, but they have not (yes I compared some lenses in the field). And even if SK manages to close these gaps in the next x years (nobody knows as there is no roadmap), the future lies in new lens designs, optimized for the shorter flange distance of mirrorless cameras, which shows especially with the wide angles. The Hasselblad XCD 30mm, for instance, has a much better corner performance than the praised BR 35mm (I won't even bother to compare the P1 28mm with the new Hasselblad XCD 21mm or the Fuji GF 23mm). See also this analysis: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126511.msg1064774#msg1064774. Adapting older lenses of other brands (think Zeiss, Leica), not possible because of the flange distance, using BR lenses with mirrorless cameras (not possible because of electronics).

3) the weight: yeah, I made a simulation for a whole system between Hasselblad X1D and Phase One XF, result: the P1 weighs twice. I still need my healthy back in the future and I am not a studio or 4x4 photographer.

4) the C1 policy: as there are no signs of P1 mirrorless cameras at the horizon, a lot of P1 customers (and I would do the same) have Fuji GFX or Hasselblad X1D as backup or hiking system, only that they can not use C1 for consistent results. If I would be a P1/C1 customer, I would be pissed off every day by this short-sighted policy (déjà-vu hybrid H-P1 photographers).

5) will there even be a visible difference in image quality between "crop" Hasselblad XD/Fuji GFX and "full" P1, when the new BSI 100MP sensors arrive. I assume not, the resolution difference is not very big, the Hasselblad and Fuji lens line-ups are more consistent and modern designs than the SK, and at least the Hasselblad colors are sublime. I am not even talking about the potential advantages in practical use like: precise focusing with EVF or IBIS. So what is left: some specialized advantages like modular backs for tech cameras, better tethering, viewing experience with OVF, etc.

Sorry P1, with these perspectives, I fear, it will be difficult to gain a considerable number of new customers ...
 
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dougpeterson

Workshop Member
We've posted a new article with a quick summary of the 32HR and 23HR test performed in Denmark. If you've already downloaded and examined those raw files the only new thing in this article is that we published the 23HR + 100mp Raw file (P1 only published the 150mp raw files) for direct comparison. If you didn't get a chance to look at those raws then our article (I hope) provides a succinct visual summary.

You can download all raws at the bottom of the article.

This is just the very start of the testing you should expect. This test was done in Denmark by Phase One itself and there is much that I would (and will be) doing differently in DT's testing in the US, such as including other backs, lenses, and movement combination. That said, it's a darn good start and the results are extremely promising.

Phase One IQ4 150mp vs 100mp 32HR and 23HR raw files
 

f8orbust

Active member
...if anything, it will be *more* effective in MF than FF 35...
That's it in a nutshell - cameras like the XF/H-line + DB are big and heavy, so too the lenses, and now you have a 150MP sensor. If any platform was crying out for IBIS it's MFD. Maybe HB/P1 could lease the tech from Olympus - their implementation (5.5EV body only or 6.5EV when paired with an IS lens) is pretty astonishing.

I just can't see how anyone could hold a camera the bulk of a MF SLR + 150MP DB, and not move <= 0.004mm during an exposure. Even at 1/1000 second that equates to trying to keep your hand movement slower than 4mm per second. I can't do that even before my first coffee of the day. And at 1/250, we're looking at <= 1mm per second. No way. So under absolutely optimal conditions you will likely realize 150MP of true data, but the rest of the time it will be significantly less.
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
I still use a P25-back on my Contax 645 and I admit that I was last week tempted to buy a new IQ50-XF-80mm kit, for which DT had a special offer at their new shop-site (I think it was 15k). C1 is a wonderful piece of software and I even like the XF and the Danish/Scandinavian design philosophy and corporate culture of perfectionism, all things, I can imagine to invest in. But then I thought about the narrative and perspectives for the future and decided, it will not be for me, why?

1) the upgrade trap: all these relatively cheap new-old-stock or CPO offers will expire soon enough and then there will be left only these absurdly overpriced 645 backs: 22k to upgrade from a 100MP to the new 150MP back, this is ludicrous ... P1 lost me here (wasn't the IQ3100 kit launched at 49k and now the new IQ4150 kit at 52k?, so in a bit more than 2 years the loss is 19k?).

2) the lenses: yes, there are some gems, but there are also still too much slouches at strategic points in the line-up (think 28/55/80/150). If P1 had the consistency and the breath-taking quality and character of Leica S line-up, yes that would be a big selling point, but they have not (yes I compared some lenses in the field). And even if SK manages to close these gaps in the next x years (nobody knows as there is no roadmap), the future lies in new lens designs, optimized for the shorter flange distance of mirrorless cameras, which shows especially with the wide angles. The Hasselblad XCD 30mm, for instance, has a much better corner performance than the praised BR 35mm (I won't even bother to compare the P1 28mm with the new Hasselblad XCD 21mm or the Fuji GF 23mm). See also this analysis: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126511.msg1064774#msg1064774. Adapting older lenses of other brands (think Zeiss, Leica), not possible because of the flange distance, using BR lenses with mirrorless cameras (not possible because of electronics).

3) the weight: yeah, I made a simulation for a whole system between Hasselblad X1D and Phase One XF, result: the P1 weighs twice. I still need my healthy back in the future and I am not a studio or 4x4 photographer.

4) the C1 policy: as there are no signs of P1 mirrorless cameras at the horizon, a lot of P1 customers (and I would do the same) have Fuji GFX or Hasselblad X1D as backup or hiking system, only that they can not use C1 for consistent results. If I would be a P1/C1 customer, I would be pissed off every day by this short-sighted policy (déjà-vu hybrid H-P1 photographers).

5) will there even be a visible difference in image quality between "crop" Hasselblad XD/Fuji GFX and "full" P1, when the new BSI 100MP sensors arrive. I assume not, the resolution difference is not very big, the Hasselblad and Fuji lens line-ups are more consistent and modern designs than the SK, and at least the Hasselblad colors are sublime. I am not even talking about the potential advantages in practical use like: precise focusing with EVF or IBIS. So what is left: some specialized advantages like modular backs for tech cameras, better tethering, viewing experience with OVF, etc.

Sorry P1, with these perspectives, I fear, it will be difficult to gain a considerable number of new customers ...
With all due respect, this is the second thread in an otherwise first class forum that is full of vile comments about Phase One. There is no excuse for this constant desire to hatefully complain about a product... and we all appreciate others having the grace to not do so. Instead, we prefer helpful and comments as part of a community.

A few people here know that I cannot afford anything sold by Phase One, and that is the reality I live with every single day. That reality will not change in my lifetime and is expected to become more dire as time passes. Do I like, admire, respect, and desire the best from Phase One? ABSOLUTELY! And yet, it is impossible. I prefer to see the images and listen to the experiences of others and learn from them.

More than that, those wonderful people at the Phase One dealers at the top of the home page for this thread do everyone a great service as part of this wonderful community. They employ superb people who have only the highest professional standards and personal service in mind for their customers and their local community. I will always strive to support them when and where possible. This last year, families and friends of individual patients recovering their lives from trauma, strokes and diseases have benefited immeasurably from the services of CI here in Atlanta in assisting (with equipment, time, expertise, physical and emotional support) our year long pro bono project of producing Art for Healing.

Phase One, the company that actually produces the very products seemingly under attack constantly by a few, continues to produce the highest quality products and deserve my respect. I gladly give that to them as they deserve it.

I cannot afford a Phase One, yet I choose to do what we are committed to doing in spite of my failure to become wealthy enough to own anything besides a handful of old cameras and a desire to express myself in the hopes of making a difference in this world. Others can certainly afford Phase One and that is the perfect way for Photography, at its highest level socially and ethically to make a difference. This forum shows magnificent work by highly skilled and talented photographers. Those using high end equipment inspire me (as others with humble gear like myself) and many others with every post to do better by learning from them. I know I can!

If not for those who can, I would have fallen away and become part of those who cannot. Phase One, the company and their clients, can! With time and hard work, maybe I will be blessed to be included in the category of those who can... but without Phase One products, and I am okay with that. I am not entitled to anything in life except the list of human rights. Last time I looked, photography gear was not on that list!:)

While I anxiously look for input and thoughtful recommendations from other forum members everyday, i look forward to the day, when we can all accept others and their lives without putting ourselves in stress over meaningless arguments and hard feelings over mere material possessions.:)
 

vieri

Well-known member
With all due respect, this is the second thread in an otherwise first class forum that is full of vile comments about Phase One. There is no excuse for this constant desire to hatefully complain about a product... and we all appreciate others having the grace to not do so. Instead, we prefer helpful and comments as part of a community.

A few people here know that I cannot afford anything sold by Phase One, and that is the reality I live with every single day. That reality will not change in my lifetime and is expected to become more dire as time passes. Do I like, admire, respect, and desire the best from Phase One? ABSOLUTELY! And yet, it is impossible. I prefer to see the images and listen to the experiences of others and learn from them.

More than that, those wonderful people at the Phase One dealers at the top of the home page for this thread do everyone a great service as part of this wonderful community. They employ superb people who have only the highest professional standards and personal service in mind for their customers and their local community. I will always strive to support them when and where possible. This last year, families and friends of individual patients recovering their lives from trauma, strokes and diseases have benefited immeasurably from the services of CI here in Atlanta in assisting (with equipment, time, expertise, physical and emotional support) our year long pro bono project of producing Art for Healing.

Phase One, the company that actually produces the very products seemingly under attack constantly by a few, continues to produce the highest quality products and deserve my respect. I gladly give that to them as they deserve it.

I cannot afford a Phase One, yet I choose to do what we are committed to doing in spite of my failure to become wealthy enough to own anything besides a handful of old cameras and a desire to express myself in the hopes of making a difference in this world. Others can certainly afford Phase One and that is the perfect way for Photography, at its highest level socially and ethically to make a difference. This forum shows magnificent work by highly skilled and talented photographers. Those using high end equipment inspire me (as others with humble gear like myself) and many others with every post to do better by learning from them. I know I can!

If not for those who can, I would have fallen away and become part of those who cannot. Phase One, the company and their clients, can! With time and hard work, maybe I will be blessed to be included in the category of those who can... but without Phase One products, and I am okay with that. I am not entitled to anything in life except the list of human rights. Last time I looked, photography gear was not on that list!:)

While I anxiously look for input and thoughtful recommendations from other forum members everyday, i look forward to the day, when we can all accept others and their lives without putting ourselves in stress over meaningless arguments and hard feelings over mere material possessions.:)
Well said, Dave.

I truly don't understand people's need to vent their discontent about this or that product's pricing policy by attacking manufacturers. To me, it is simple: if someone likes a product, thinks it's worth the money and can afford it, he should buy it and enjoy it. If someone likes a product but cannot afford it, he should either do their best to be able to afford it eventually, and if that is not possible they should follow your example above which - IMHO - is among the best (and best worded) I have ever seen. If someone doesn't like a product, or feels that it's not worth the money asked for it, he should just vote with their wallets and not buy it; possibly, if they feel like helping, they could add some constructive criticisms and suggestions to help said products in meeting their expectations, so that they can buy it next time. Everything else is a waste of time, band and HDD space.

Just my .02.

Best regards,

Vieri
 

retcheto

Member
It seems to me forums like this are specifically about people discussing the pros and cons of each system. To me that’s very helpful. I think it’s perfectly legitimate for someone to argue a camera isn’t worth its asking price and give the reasons why they think so.

I like to hear those reasons, it helps me a lot. Sidhaartas comments were very interesting to me and he argued respectfully. Of course everyone in the end decides for themselves if they feel like spending money to buy or upgrade.

Imagine how unhelpful this forum would be if all people said was “if you like, buy it”. Thanks I already know that, I want to hear about everyone else’s experience and thoughts, why some features are useful or not, other systems that might be just as good, etc. Let’s keep the discussion going
 

retcheto

Member
PS my two cents are the P1 looks awesome but is past the point of diminishing returns in terms of price/performance, at least for my needs. If money were no object I would definitely buy it. I’m waiting for the X2D, that seems to be the sweet spot for me.

P1 strategy is risky, but there’s always an ultra high end in most markets so they’ll probably be OK. I can see why someone would buy it, I’m very very tempted myself and who knows what I will do in the next year or two ...
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
That's it in a nutshell - cameras like the XF/H-line + DB are big and heavy, so too the lenses, and now you have a 150MP sensor. If any platform was crying out for IBIS it's MFD. Maybe HB/P1 could lease the tech from Olympus - their implementation (5.5EV body only or 6.5EV when paired with an IS lens) is pretty astonishing.
Notably the Olympus implementation is on a very small sensor. I suspect strongly that if anyone (Fuji, Olympus, Phase, Hassy, whoever) did a medium format sensor implementation they would not be able to gain anywhere near 5+ stops. The weight of the sensor is a cubic function to it's longest side.

I just can't see how anyone could hold a camera the bulk of a MF SLR + 150MP DB, and not move <= 0.004mm during an exposure. Even at 1/1000 second that equates to trying to keep your hand movement slower than 4mm per second. I can't do that even before my first coffee of the day. And at 1/250, we're looking at <= 1mm per second. No way. So under absolutely optimal conditions you will likely realize 150MP of true data, but the rest of the time it will be significantly less.
That just indicates that the math your using isn't a good proxy to the real world results. This is an example of a question which would require extensive effort to make a perfect theoretical model of the math to predict the results... or you can take a couple pictures and see. To construct a mathematical model, for example, you have to account for which axis the motion is occurring on. Purely vertical motion of the camera on a wide angle shot of an infinity subject (e.g. a grand canyon) is irrelevant. Even if the camera moved an inch during the exposure it wouldn't have meaningful effect. In contrast, an equivalent-energy translated into a change in yaw or pitch would be devastating to sharpness. Note my first job was writing software for vibration analysis software used in the automotive industry; I'm very far from an expert, but I have a surprising familiarity with the science vibration for a camera nerd.

From a practical evaluation angle, my own quite extensive hand held shooting with the IQ3 100mp shows I need around 2x the focal length in shutter speed for acceptable results and 3x the focal length in shutter speed to get results visually indistinguishable from a tripod. And that's assuming that sharpness-at-100% is the way I'm judging. If I know the images are only going to be web or small prints (e.g. 11x14) then I don't even need 2x.
 
Thanks, dave and vieri for your feedback, and thanks, retcheto for your support.

I don't want to deepen this discussion, only some clarifications:

1) dealers: I don't have criticized any dealer and won't as the direction in which P1 goes is defined by the HQ in Denmark. Even the "upgrade trap" as I called it, is mainly defined by the price policy of HQ.

2) hate: nothing further away than this. If there is any emotion involved it would be disappointment, because as I stated, I feel some kind of admiration for the corporate culture of P1, but I think they are going in the false direction, which is sad and disappointing.

3) can afford: one thing is you can't afford it, another thing is you can afford it but you won't buy it because the cost-benefit ratio is not any more justifiable (as retcheto pointed out: past the point of diminishing returns). I am in the latter camp.

4) constructive critics: you may think my criticism is not constructive: point taken, but it would be easy for you to translate my arguments into suggestions: so please P1, hear your potential customer: 1) don't abandon "crop" MF because this is a good way for new customers to get into your brand and don't criticize "crop" sensors as "pseudo MF"; 2) improve your lens line-up and fill the gaps; 3) lose weight of your system; 4) facilitate the use of other MF makers images in your C1 software; 5) make a new, compact "full frame" mirrorless body/system with a new, state-of-the-art lens line-up.

For P1, their strategic decisions maybe logical in a strict business sense, but that does not make them automatically good for their existing customers or potential new customers.

My interest as a curious MF customer is that the market widens and not that it retreats into niches.

But at the end you are right: all this discussion about gear and technical perfection is not very important and even counterproductive. See this recent article/comment and reflection about the theory of Überkameras: The Online Photographer: Best Comment Ever
 
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Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Because I often shoot wildlife or from boats where a tripod is not an option, I have extensively tested my own ability to hand-hold the XF/IQ3-100 combo still enough to replicate tripod-based shots. I did this by taking a series of pix at each lens's sweet spot (f8-11 generally for my work) first on my heavy Gitzo/Cube and then hand-held.

I'm not as good as Doug (probably because I'm older!) and prefer 4 times the focal length to get ultimate sharpness. This means I rarely shoot at slower than 1/350 or 1/500 with my most used 55, 80 and 150 mm lenses. In practice I tend to set the shutter at 1/500 and the aperture at f8 or thereabouts depending on the subject and then use Auto ISO. Of course, anything to lean on, or to put my elbows on, really helps.

Incidentally, I find the mass of the XF/IQ3-100 seems to help damp my motion. But I still prefer a tripod!
 
In practice I tend to set the shutter at 1/500 and the aperture at f8 or thereabouts depending on the subject and then use Auto ISO.
I have adopted a similar approach (though I don't have a P1). My thinking is that with today's sensors, any degradation from using a higher ISO is more than offset by a reduction in camera shake. Auto ISO has changed the way I think about exposure. Unlike with film, we now have three exposure variables for every shot.
 
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dave.gt

Well-known member
Thanks, dave and vieri for your feedback, and thanks, retcheto for your support.

I don't want to deepen this discussion, only some clarifications:

1) dealers: I don't have criticized any dealer and won't as the direction in which P1 goes is defined by the HQ in Denmark. Even the "upgrade trap" as I called it, is mainly defined by the price policy of HQ.

2) hate: nothing further away than this. If there is any emotion involved it would be disappointment, because as I stated, I feel some kind of admiration for the corporate culture of P1, but I think they are going in the false direction, which is sad and disappointing.

3) can afford: one thing is you can't afford it, another thing is you can afford it but you won't buy it because the cost-benefit ratio is not any more justifiable (as retcheto pointed out: past the point of diminishing returns). I am in the latter camp.

4) constructive critics: you may think my criticism is not constructive: point taken, but it would be easy for you to translate my arguments into suggestions: so please P1, hear your potential customer: 1) don't abandon "crop" MF because this is a good way for new customers to get into your brand and don't criticize "crop" sensors as "pseudo MF"; 2) improve your lens line-up and fill the gaps; 3) lose weight of your system; 4) facilitate the use of other MF makers images in your C1 software; 5) make a new, compact "full frame" mirrorless body/system with a new, state-of-the-art lens line-up.

For P1, their strategic decisions maybe logical in a strict business sense, but that does not make them automatically good for their existing customers or potential new customers.

My interest as a curious MF customer is that the market widens and not that it retreats into niches.

But at the end you are right: all this discussion about gear and technical perfection is not very important and even counterproductive. See this recent article/comment and reflection about the theory of Überkameras: The Online Photographer: Best Comment Ever
Points well taken. I only disagree strongly with what people think is the right direction for Phase One. That is a bit of a stretch for anyone outside of their corporate walls to presume to know the right direction. But I digress.

My post was in response to this initial thread, as the criticism of Phase One follows close on the heels of it, and a lot of piling on occurred:

https://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium...ks/64582-cheapest-route-get-iq150-system.html

The OP has a history of such posts about Phase One pricing all the way back to 2014. This time he used this forum to call for a boycott of Phase One. That thread was not helpful or courteous.

I stand by my position that if anyone does not like a product or the price of the product, then they should have a dialogue with the company itself in lieu of launching a negative campaign. It would be much more productive than attacking the company verbally and issuing calls to boycott, or other suggestion such as cutting their prices in half.

In the end, we are all limited in our role as a consumer. We are not however, limited in our ability to be creative with whatever gear we are using, or in being rational, courteous and helpful to others.

This is my last word on that topic, thankfully.

May you enjoy this weekend with glorious light and good health in which to take advantage of every opportunity.:):):)
 

tjv

Active member
I can't afford this new back, at least not until they go on the used market AND I've finished paying off my Credo 60. Even then, it's likely a choice between buying it or our first family home; can't imagine we could afford to do both, even though we have a good deposit for the latter, and I know which is a better long term 'investment' for my wellbeing. Anyway, I must admit that this new back is the first offering in a long time that has me excited, or at least optimistic for the future of DMF and continued support for technical camera use. The LCC files look amazing compared to anything I've ever seen before. Coming from CCD with the Credo (which I love using, incidentally, save for a few well known limitations of use,) the live view and extra DR would really rock my world (and was already offered in the 100mpx version,) but the faster electronic shutter as well as the improved LCC performance is really something. I'm not happy about the cost of entry–free would be good–but good luck them.
 

DougDolde

Well-known member
I still use a P25-back on my Contax 645 and I admit that I was last week tempted to buy a new IQ50-XF-80mm kit, for which DT had a special offer at their new shop-site (I think it was 15k). C1 is a wonderful piece of software and I even like the XF and the Danish/Scandinavian design philosophy and corporate culture of perfectionism, all things, I can imagine to invest in. But then I thought about the narrative and perspectives for the future and decided, it will not be for me, why?

1) the upgrade trap: all these relatively cheap new-old-stock or CPO offers will expire soon enough and then there will be left only these absurdly overpriced 645 backs: 22k to upgrade from a 100MP to the new 150MP back, this is ludicrous ... P1 lost me here (wasn't the IQ3100 kit launched at 49k and now the new IQ4150 kit at 52k?, so in a bit more than 2 years the loss is 19k?).

2) the lenses: yes, there are some gems, but there are also still too much slouches at strategic points in the line-up (think 28/55/80/150). If P1 had the consistency and the breath-taking quality and character of Leica S line-up, yes that would be a big selling point, but they have not (yes I compared some lenses in the field). And even if SK manages to close these gaps in the next x years (nobody knows as there is no roadmap), the future lies in new lens designs, optimized for the shorter flange distance of mirrorless cameras, which shows especially with the wide angles. The Hasselblad XCD 30mm, for instance, has a much better corner performance than the praised BR 35mm (I won't even bother to compare the P1 28mm with the new Hasselblad XCD 21mm or the Fuji GF 23mm). See also this analysis: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126511.msg1064774#msg1064774. Adapting older lenses of other brands (think Zeiss, Leica), not possible because of the flange distance, using BR lenses with mirrorless cameras (not possible because of electronics).

3) the weight: yeah, I made a simulation for a whole system between Hasselblad X1D and Phase One XF, result: the P1 weighs twice. I still need my healthy back in the future and I am not a studio or 4x4 photographer.

4) the C1 policy: as there are no signs of P1 mirrorless cameras at the horizon, a lot of P1 customers (and I would do the same) have Fuji GFX or Hasselblad X1D as backup or hiking system, only that they can not use C1 for consistent results. If I would be a P1/C1 customer, I would be pissed off every day by this short-sighted policy (déjà-vu hybrid H-P1 photographers).

5) will there even be a visible difference in image quality between "crop" Hasselblad XD/Fuji GFX and "full" P1, when the new BSI 100MP sensors arrive. I assume not, the resolution difference is not very big, the Hasselblad and Fuji lens line-ups are more consistent and modern designs than the SK, and at least the Hasselblad colors are sublime. I am not even talking about the potential advantages in practical use like: precise focusing with EVF or IBIS. So what is left: some specialized advantages like modular backs for tech cameras, better tethering, viewing experience with OVF, etc.

Sorry P1, with these perspectives, I fear, it will be difficult to gain a considerable number of new customers ...
I don't blame you and I know what you mean. The Contax 645
is still a great camera and not so complicated as the XF. Just enough to get the job done. I had one with an Aptus 75S and loved it. Should have kept it, though the D850 is technically better
 
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