Fuji GFX Lenses vs. Hasselblad X1D

[vjbelle]

Since owning the GFX for a little while I am quite sure I would have never been happy with the X1D. But..... that could easily be overlooked depending on the lens experience. Everybody raves about the GFX lenses but, as I'm sure some know, I'm more than a little fussy when it comes to lenses and I justify this with my thinking that the lenses are keepers for much longer than the camera body - which to me is just a throw away 2 to 3 years down the road.

The Fuji lenses have such incredible potential that I have found myself spoiled with even the smallest detraction from perfect causing me to send a lens back for replacement. They are wicked sharp but very different from my Digitar's with a more narrow DOF for the same angle of view and the transitioning from in focus to out of focus is very different with the Digitar's being much smoother..... I've learned to live with both.

I would like to hear from the GFX and Hassy owners regarding their experiences with lenses. Are they sharp edge to edge, corner to corner. What about skewing issues - the real culprit. None of these lenses are perfect as that would be impossible but both companies are getting much better with QC. Howard Cubell has had both systems, as I recall, so it would be interesting to hear from him.

I'm sure potential buyers of either system would be interested.....

Cheers......

Victor

 

[hcubell]

Hi, Victor. I did have the GFX with 32-64 zoom for about a month and I tested it side by side against the X1D with the XCD 30 and 45. Short story is that the 30 and 45 were marginally better in the corners, but the GFX zoom was just amazingly close. Easily the best zoom I have ever used, so I can only imagine how good the GFX primes must be. However, the XCD 45mm while excellent is the weakest of the XCD lenses. The 30 and 90 are superb. The 120 macro is a level beyond, and the 21 is a simply amazing ultra wide. Hasselblad is slow in building out its lens line but I couldn’t be happier with the image quality of what they have released so far. There are 4 lenses that are still on the roadmap, 3 of which were supposed to have been released in the first half of 2018.

 

[siddhaarta]

I have four Hasselblad XCD lenses (21/30/45/90) and could not find any QC related issues. All wonderful lenses for sure. I am quite fond of the 90mm because of the wonderful front and back bokeh (although it is only f/3.2). The 21mm is the most extreme wide-angle in MF, which opens up new opportunities.

What I can see from limited personal comparisons with a borrowed Fuji GFX, from MTF charts (a little bit limited in case of Fuji) and from some scattered Imatest results, the differences in lens performance (especially contrast, resolution and control of astigmatism) seem to be very small between the two brands (maybe centre resolution a bit better with Fuji and corner resolution a bit better with Hasselblad, depending on the lens, but all on a very high, eye-watering, level).

Therefore, I don't think, lens quality should be the main factor for a potential buyer to choose between the brands. Other factors come to mind (ordered according to my personal priorities):

1) Ergonomics (in the wider sense including menus, features, lens handling, etc.): what can I say, total, total different design philosophies

2) Color science: for sure subjective, for me a big, big plus for Hasselblad

3) Lens line up (considering the promised lens road map in the case of Hasselblad): some important differences which may be important for customers. In my case, I wanted the 21mm and 30mm (landscape bread & butter) which Fuji doesn't have (ok they have the zoom and a 23mm and rumors on a 35mm and 20-36mm zoom). OTOH, Fuji has the 110mm and the 250mm (+ tele converter) which Hasselblad sadly doesn't have

4) Weight and portability: Hasselblad has been more consequent in that matter

5) Tiltable LCD screen and EVF: important for macro and landscape and a big plus for Fuji

6) Leaf shutter vs focal plane shutter (use of flash, vibrations), also, adaptability to older lenses: Hasselblad depends on the e-shutter, some lenses as the Contax 645 only work with Fuji

7) Price: Fuji is considerably cheaper

 

[darr]

Thank you Victor for posing this question!
As an avid Hasselblad (film and CFV50c) and Fuji (X-Pro 2, XE-2, X100T) user, I am all eyes! :bugeyes:

A Fuji or a Hasselblad mirrorless is in my future, I just do not know which way I will go!
And I admit, I am a lens queen!

Kind regards,
Darr

 

[JohnBrew]

Darr, totally agree with you!
Cheers to you, we are waiting out the hurricane in an apartment on James Island which was inadvertent because my new house is awaiting floor finishing and interior paint! I did manage to stash the Jaguar in the garage of the new house (it is in no danger). And thank goodness we sold the beach house last month!

 

[darr]

Darr, totally agree with you!
Cheers to you, we are waiting out the hurricane in an apartment on James Island which was inadvertent because my new house is awaiting floor finishing and interior paint! I did manage to stash the Jaguar in the garage of the new house (it is in no danger). And thank goodness we sold the beach house last month!

John,

Thanks for the heads-up as I was thinking about you guys!
Stay safe my friend!!

Darr

 

[algrove]

John
Please just get out of there.
Lou

 

[Shashin]

John, as a Certified Floodplain Manager (yes, there is such a thing, although I suspect you knew I was certified), I recommend evacuating over "riding the thing out." (85% of fatalities are from water, not wind (and no, you don't get to choose)) This storm is likely to stall at the coast, meaning the water trying to drain from the land will be prevented by the storm surge. This happened in Houston.

The weather is fine in Florida and almost everywhere else in driving distance.

By the way, if you want to see if you are in a floodplain, go here: https://msc.fema.gov/portal/home

A bit of background. 100-year flood zone does not mean that it floods every one hundred years, but that there is a 1% annual chance of flooding (or a 25% of flooding at least once over a 30-year mortgage). A 500-year flood zone is a 0.2% chance. These are based on historical records. A 100-year flood event in Florida is defined as 11" of rain in a 24 hour period. They are expecting up to 36" of rain where the hurricane hits and for possibly longer than 24 hours. Yes, a cat 3 storm sounds a lot nicer than a cat 4, but that is kind of like saying lung cancer is better than kidney cancer. Perhaps nothing will happen to you or your house, but feeling silly for retreating (which you should not) is a lot better than your good luck running out. Besides, the weather is really nice in Florida.

 

[vjbelle]

It's good to hear that the Hassy lenses perform well.... I expected as much. I don't shoot wide angle much so I stopped with the Fuji 45mm. That lens is easily the best I have ever used in that focal length or equivalent. My 63mm is superb and the 110mm is stunning. I made my decision for the GFX after a lot of reading of reviews and owner comments and coming to the conclusion that Fuji had a rich history of mirrorless camera design that they could incorporate into the GFX. None of this is selling the X1D short which I would also like to own but having two mirrorless MF cameras is really overkill.

Victor

 

[tcdeveau]

It's good to hear that the Hassy lenses perform well.... I expected as much. I don't shoot wide angle much so I stopped with the Fuji 45mm. That lens is easily the best I have ever used in that focal length or equivalent. My 63mm is superb and the 110mm is stunning. I made my decision for the GFX after a lot of reading of reviews and owner comments and coming to the conclusion that Fuji had a rich history of mirrorless camera design that they could incorporate into the GFX. None of this is selling the X1D short which I would also like to own but having two mirrorless MF cameras is really overkill.

Victor

Overkill? What’s that?

I have the X1D and 21/30/45/90mm XCD. I’ve been really happy with all of the lenses and their performance, although I don’t evaluate lens performance as critically as others. The GFX lenses are supposed to be outstanding, and I think the biggest difference between the XCD and GFX lenses are price and maybe size (in terms of physical dimensions). Regarding the cameras, I prefer the X1D body and UI greatly over the GFX, but that’s just personal preference.

Given the prices of the XCD lenses I thought about sticking with the X1D for lenses 90mm or less (what I’ve got) and supplementing the X1D by picking up a GFX for the longer GF 110, 120, 250, and any adapted needs....but of course in true GetDPI fashion I bought a tech cam instead.

 

[vjbelle]

Maybe someone will make an adapter for the X1D to use GFX lenses. There's 7mm to play around with for adapter depth and those lenses could be used with the E shutter. The other way around is impossible as the GFX has a deeper flange distance.

Victor

 

[danlindberg]

It seems to me that modern lens design and manufacturing techniques are in general really good that if only the lens is assembled as intended, then most are really great.
I have enjoyed my Loxia 50 and Loxia 21 for the Sony. Now I have gotten my feet wet with an X1D and a single portrait lens 90/3.2 and this is also amazingly sharp wide open.

 

[bab]

It seems to me that modern lens design and manufacturing techniques are in general really good that if only the lens is assembled as intended, then most are really great.
I have enjoyed my Loxia 50 and Loxia 21 for the Sony. Now I have gotten my feet wet with an X1D and a single portrait lens 90/3.2 and this is also amazingly sharp wide open.

This is a sharp image much sharper than the usual Leica image posts bragging how great the Leica lenses are!

 

[DB5]

This is a sharp image much sharper than the usual Leica image posts bragging how great the Leica lenses are!

That's not why I personally "brag" about Leica lenses.

Plenty of sharpness exists in loads of brands. Sharpness is over rated and sort pf important but not that important to me. The look of the image is something else, the rendering. While I think the X1D lenses are incredible, to me what's I've see so far they don't look as good as Leica lenses. That is Bokeh, transition, colour (not that you can see it in this b+w obviously), tonality.

It's subjective and not worth arguing over though.

 

[danlindberg]

I agree that sharpness is only one of several factors important in a lens. But in my very personal case, it is the first characteristics that needs to satisfy me, before going through the rest of the 'personalities' of a lens.

I have difficulty in using lenses that are full of character but soft corner to corner. If I want dreamy images I make it in post. Having said that, sharpness isn't everything either, I have a great copy of the Sony 55/1.8. This is very very sharp even wide open but does not render nicely in my view. I much prefer the Loxia 50.

It is too early days for me to know what I think about the XCD 90/3.2, so far so good!

Let me just say as well that my sample image is 'destroyed' by cranking up contrast way too much with blown highlights on her cheek and no details at all in the blacks. But the sharpness at f3.2 is seriously impressive in my book!!!

 

[DB5]

I agree that sharpness is only one of several factors important in a lens. But in my very personal case, it is the first characteristics that needs to satisfy me, before going through the rest of the 'personalities' of a lens.

I have difficulty in using lenses that are full of character but soft corner to corner. If I want dreamy images I make it in post. Having said that, sharpness isn't everything either, I have a great copy of the Sony 55/1.8. This is very very sharp even wide open but does not render nicely in my view. I much prefer the Loxia 50.

It is too early days for me to know what I think about the XCD 90/3.2, so far so good!

Let me just say as well that my sample image is 'destroyed' by cranking up contrast way too much with blown highlights on her cheek and no details at all in the blacks. But the sharpness at f3.2 is seriously impressive in my book!!!

I agree in the sense that there has to be excellent sharpness, that is a given to me. BUT - I couldn't really say there are many lenses I've tried in the last 5 years that don't make the grade though. But I realise how open ended that is and there are probably some out there! Also perceived sharpness is made up of many things. Contrast and Micro contrast, reveal far more detail that I'm more interested in than lens sharpness. You need sharpness but you also need micro contrast and there's a bunch of lenses out there that don't have as much. Even the Sigma ART's compared with the Otus are just lacking that extra texture and detail you get from the Otus micro-contrast. Leica's 50mm APO-Summicron is to die for in that regard.

I don't believe in making things dreamy in post. For me it has to, absolutely, be done in camera unless there is something specific that can't be done in camera. Intent and pre visualising to me is a fundamental thing about making an artwork, not blundering about later in post where, IMO, it looks relatively pretty bad in many cases.

The 90 XCD is a beautiful lens. I am put off by that bokeh when not fully wide open (after the firmware update) it still looks messy when stopped down a little and having to shoot wide open ALL the time to avoid it is not really practical.

 

[danlindberg]

Yep! It is not the best bokeh I have seen. A little too busy for my taste, but not a dealbreaker even though this will be my main portrait lens. It is definitely sharp enough wide open and so far, I nail focus more times than not.

For landscapes it will never be used, that will be with the Alpa adaptor and tech lenses :toocool:

 

[vjbelle]

Dan..... am curious as to why you would never use the Hassy 90 for landscapes..... Seems like a great focal length. I wouldn't hesitate to use my GFX 110mm for landscapes but I'm always looking for reach and a little compression for landscapes. Of course I always have my Schneider Digitar's......

Cheers....

Victor

 

[glenerrolrd]

This is a sharp image much sharper than the usual Leica image posts bragging how great the Leica lenses are!

BAB

You are seriously incorrect . Just completed a similar fashion shoot in NYC which included testing the new Leica 75/2 with the SL and using my legacy 50/1.4 R summilux ...plenty of similar window light images .

The contrast of the light has a huge amount to do with the perceived sharpness and this photo is near the edge of the DR .

When you can see the flakes in the eye makeup at 2:1 enlargement ....thats plenty sharp enough . When you can do that wide open at F2 its more than what is required .

As Dan mentions its the aesthetic ( roll off of sharpness and bokeh ) that is so important in a portrait lens . Personally I still prefer the rendering of the Leica R 80/1.4 for portraits and the Leica S 100/2 is a close second .

With that said the rendering of the 90 HB lens is impressive and paired with the larger 50MP sensor looks to be a exceptional all around performer . I ve looked at plenty of files and still believe you can not beat medium format with anything full frame . The tone separation,color responsiveness and the softer rolloff of the plane of focus creates at more pleasing aesthetic .

 

[retcheto]

Any thoughts on the native XCD lenses vs the Hasselblad H lenses via the adapter? I've been using the 210mm H and very happy with it. Autofocus is not a concern for me, I prefer manual focus anyways.

It seems like there are some good deals to be had on the H lenses used every once in a while.

I'm looking for something wider (maybe 30mm XCD or the 28mm HCD)