Phase One - a cautionary tale regarding their "support"

[gerald.d]

Ulf Liljegren -

"Phase One offers the best in-class support, promising our hardware users a response from the globally positioned support team within 8 hours, regardless of location and no matter what the concern.

"We promise to respond within 8 hours. But typically, that is 7 hours more than we need."


Below is the timeline of events and conversations between myself and my Phase One dealer.

My IQ3 100 is under warranty. Like many here I have had a long relationship with Phase One and have spent a great deal of money with them.

That relationship ends today. They won't be getting a single penny from me in the future.

Why should anyone be expected to put up with this kind of "service" on a $40K product?

("You" in the below text refers to my dealer.)

September 2nd - I report tethering issues with my IQ3 100
September 3rd - You raise the case with Denmark
September 5th - Denmark reply, back needs to be returned under warranty for repair, and a loaner will be provided. This is of course what I have paid for when purchasing the back.
September 6th - I confirm that I will drop off the back and collect the loaner in Hong Kong.
September 9th - I chase to see whether the swap in HK is confirmed. My flights are booked.
September 10th - You say it should be OK, and will call Denmark. "Back should have been sent Friday (7th) to HK office.
September 10th - You provide case and RMA number.
September 11th - You inform me that the back was only dispatched from Denmark on the 10th.
September 12th - I arrive at Phase One office at 9am to drop off my back. Checking with courier, it is clear the loaner will not arrive in time before I have to head to the airport.
September 12th - I ask what will happen now?
No answer for two days
September 14th - Arrangements will be made to courier the loaner to me in Thailand. I provide my address.
No answer for three days
September 17th - You state DK have informed HK to courier the loaner. You state that you should have the tracking number "later today or tomorrow, but the shipment should leave the HK office today."
September 18th - I chase for the tracking number.
No answer.
September 19th - I chase for the tracking number.
September 19th - You state you are awaiting a reply from Denmark. Should get the tracking number this afternoon.
September 20th - I chase for the tracking number.
No answer.
September 24th - I chase for the tracking number.
September 24th, 12:48pm Bangkok time - "I am meeting the guy from the HK office in about an hour, then I will ask him directly for the tracking number."

Three hours later.

Nothing.

 

[glenerrolrd]

This is exactly what makes it so hard to pay $40k ( more like $50k) ..for their backs . For every system I use I have a back up plan ..which means most of the time a 2nd or even 3rd body at the ready . :

With my Leica S007 I kept the the S 006 as a back up body and take both ..not perfect but my back up body has a FMV of about $5K . Pick your brand (HB,FUJI ..e.g.) but nearly every alternative system has a possible back up solution ..except phase because of the cost .

You had a solution until they shipped late (thats 100% Phase mistake ) .....trying to reroute something in transit is a fools errand . :banghead:

 

[kdphotography]

I hope your experience was the unfortunate exception.

I would have expected a dealer to expedite a loaner to you prior to your trip departure, and even before Denmark is fully involved.

Mistakes happen. I hope Phase One reaches out to you and makes this right.

Ken

 

[Craig Stocks]

That’s sad to hear. I’m sure we’ve all had our own unique experience but since I adopted Capture Integration as my dealer years ago I’ve had nothing but good experience. They’ve gone above and beyond to ensure I had the best support possible including shipping a loaner to me overnight while I was on the road.

When I innitially bought into medium format years ago I used a different dealer and I did not get good support from them (unnamed but it wasn’t DT). Unfortunately Phase One’s support structure depends on the dealer as the link to the customer. If you have a good dealer it works well but a poor dealer can suck all the fun out of the process. Since switching to CI I’ve had consistently good support.

 

[Frankly]

No offense but given the amount of scamming going on I probably would not be rushing to ship a $50k package to anyone on the other side of the world without absolute certainty of who they are and reliable insurance should it go missing. Not to excuse Phase without knowing all the details but humans are going to be cautious and fallible, we don't reach adulthood without realizing that.

Granted I don't play in that expensive a playground but in 35 years of professional photography I've always had two redundant cameras. I don't know how you could risk your business otherwise? It would make more sense to have two $25k systems than one $50k system.

The most financially successful professional photographer I know bought the state of the art Phase system 5-6 years ago and after testing it, bought an identical one. He's still using it. Part of it is marketing value, the art director expects a medium format system on a $20k assignment (he's pretty vanilla) but even the best ADs don't know the difference between current and older models. Most are ignorant and merely good shoppers and fashionable trend followers.

30 years ago Sinar used to advertise a $20k system for using 4x5 with special in-plane light meters and behind the camera adjustments. The claim was it would make the photographer faster and more productive, thus paying for itself in saved time and better quality. Yeah, right. The kid with a $400 view camera could do the very same thing with a little practice. At least I did.

Sorry to be a nag, I hope you have a DSLR kit or the clients aren't breathing down your neck. Good Luck!

 

[gerald.d]

No offense but given the amount of scamming going on I probably would not be rushing to ship a $50k package to anyone on the other side of the world without absolute certainty of who they are and reliable insurance should it go missing. Not to excuse Phase without knowing all the details but humans are going to be cautious and fallible, we don't reach adulthood without realizing that.

No offence, but perhaps you should take a little time to actually read what I posted and not be so condescending.

The loaner back was being shipped from Denmark to Phase One's own offices in Hong Kong for me to pick up in person.

I timed a three-city trip over 4 days based on Phase One telling me the loaner would be dispatched on Friday 7th to their Hong Kong office.

Then, when I actually arrive in HK, I pick up the email stating that in fact the back was only sent on the 10th. I still head to their office on the morning of the 12th, but it's very clear the loaner isn't going to arrive in time.

That was the 12th of September.

Today is the 24th.

Phase One know who I am. I've owned four backs. I've hosted senior execs from Denmark in Dubai and provided access to them for rooftop shooting. I've provided them with images for their marketing. At my last company we hooked up one of their aerial cameras to a Shotover - to the best of my knowledge, the first people in the world to come up with a solution for that.

But whatever. I'm sure you're absolutely correct and they were just being "cautious".

Actually. No.

They weren't being cautious. Just lazy and deceitful.

I've finally got the tracking number.

The replacement back should be with me on Wednesday.

Go back and re-read the timeline. Guess when it was dispatched...

Go on...

Guess.

 

[f8orbust]

My guess ... the 24th.

 

[danlindberg]

My guess ... the 24th.

+1

Sad story...

 

[gerald.d]

My guess ... the 24th.

Close.

22nd.

 

[glenerrolrd]

This is more than incompetence .

Having traveled internationally for years (for business ) ...I have had my share of “find and retrieve situations “ so I know what is possible . My world revolved around my laptop and I could not work without it . I once left it at a hotel (being charged up before a flight ) ..got to the airport and realized I had left it . My assistant arranged to have it sent air freight to Atlanta and it arrived at my home before I did . Priceless !

No more than 48 hrs max to HK if they wanted to get it there on time .

 

[Smoothjazz]

I also have had good experiences with Capture Integration. Over the years I have had two digital backs fail while on trips in the mountains. The folks at CI have been very helpful with phone support, and offering to ship back-up gear (which was not feasible-but they at least checked to see if shipping was possible). They have been supportive with repairs in every case; once my back had to go all the way back to Europe, and they offered a free replacement during the repairs- I was not expecting that. We have to appreciate that overnight shipping and loaner digital backs do cost some resources, time, and effort.

 

[JeRuFo]

Has this sort of thing happened to you before that you felt the need to warn us about Phase One? I know how terrible it is to receive bad service or pretend service like in your case. Once in a while everybody seems to drop the ball at the same time and nothing really happens. I've had dealers (not for photographic equipment) tell me similar things because they have always trusted that the manufacturer had their back and forgot to check up on it causing very expensive delays for the people I worked for. It shouldn't happen, but sometimes it does.

I've never owned P1 products personally, but have worked with them quite a bit and the times I've dealt with their support system it has always been a good experience, but that was quite a few years back already.

It makes total sense that you want to either drop your dealer or Phase One based on the experience you have had, trust is a hard thing to earn etc., but is this a screw up or is it more systematic in your case?

 

[f8orbust]

I was surprised to read that P1 were actually going to ship a $50k back internationally on a temporary basis. I mean, it ain't easy shipping $50k worth of gear into and out of a country on a temporary basis without filling in a lot of paperwork or running the risk of attracting the interests of customs officials at both ends. Unless of course you just break the law and stick $100 next to the declared value ... and pray that UPS/FedEx don't goof ... which is, in my experience, what happens 99.99% of the time.

I assume that if a local dealer had an IQ3-100, then P1 would simply have gotten them to supply the gear and so avoid all the shipping hassle ? Since HK isn't exactly the arse-end-of-nowhere, I'm surprised that didn't happen.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I think nothing more to expect from a private equity owned, on profit growth focused firm. Guys, stop preordering the back. It is in alpha and by mid 2019 they will run a discount of c. 5k EUR on the backs after the first couple of "ambitious enthusiasts" bought the backs.

 

[faberryman]

I was surprised to read that P1 were actually going to ship a $50k back internationally on a temporary basis.

It is not really a $50K back. That's just what they charge you for it. The monetary risk of loss is substantially less.

 

[Frankly]

Apologies to the OP, it sounds like abysmal service.

One thread like this one probably "unsells" a dozen cameras.

 

[MGrayson]

It is not really a $50K back. That's just what they charge you for it. The monetary risk of loss is substantially less.

True. My IQ140 was worth at least $5K when I traded it in for a Leica Q. I never got a trade-in deal from Phase One, even when they were advertising P65+ deals.

It's a $50K back. Enjoy it.

Matt

PS. I do not object to the price. But it is disingenuous to claim that that isn't "the price". If I wanted a system that heavy, I'd buy back into it.

 

[JeRuFo]

I think nothing more to expect from a private equity owned, on profit growth focused firm. Guys, stop preordering the back. It is in alpha and by mid 2019 they will run a discount of c. 5k EUR on the backs after the first couple of "ambitious enthusiasts" bought the backs.

What on earth are you talking about. Phase One has been a well established company for decades with quite stable pricing and a loyal customer base. You are acting like they are a one day fly trying to make a quick buck. Their prices are high (for a camera system), but with a small client base like they have, you should look at them more like custom made high-end machines and then the price is really not ridiculously high at all.

 

[JeRuFo]

I was surprised to read that P1 were actually going to ship a $50k back internationally on a temporary basis. I mean, it ain't easy shipping $50k worth of gear into and out of a country on a temporary basis without filling in a lot of paperwork or running the risk of attracting the interests of customs officials at both ends. Unless of course you just break the law and stick $100 next to the declared value ... and pray that UPS/FedEx don't goof ... which is, in my experience, what happens 99.99% of the time.

I assume that if a local dealer had an IQ3-100, then P1 would simply have gotten them to supply the gear and so avoid all the shipping hassle ? Since HK isn't exactly the arse-end-of-nowhere, I'm surprised that didn't happen.

In most countries you can do a temporary import, where duties are suspended for a limited time (for tourists, trade shows, commercial or scientific testing etc). They probably ship them as commercial samples or something, so they can move them freely.

Edit: sorry, you already said the same thing. But they probably have their standard way of doing stuff like that. With low volume production you're going to have to ship back and forth based on demand anyway.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

What on earth are you talking about. Phase One has been a well established company for decades with quite stable pricing and a loyal customer base. You are acting like they are a one day fly trying to make a quick buck. Their prices are high (for a camera system), but with a small client base like they have, you should look at them more like custom made high-end machines and then the price is really not ridiculously high at all.

There was a buyout in 2014. CEO is fully incentivised.

This is what that got you: an expansion into institutional (drones, repro), yearly updates with full on marketing for small updates (TriChromatic is a marketing move to generate sales in a year with no sensor updates), low trade in values (they only give you ebay trade in plus a bit more and not the loophole from the past where with some bargaining you could get higher trade ins), the support described above and a focus on sales. The IQ150 announcement has been rushed out of the door to generate preorder cashflow as they have grown a lot more than their sales, which have stalled. 80m in 17 and in 16 if I remember correctly. Thats panic mode for PE if you increase personnel to 300, spend tons into R&D and market forces move against you (democratisation of crop medium format systems).

There was no real growth with Phase One - just the expansion into institutionals. Now they are trying to generate cashflow although product is in alpha and months away from shipping. You only do this if you feel the pressure. As I said, to anyone contemplating buying a system now - just wait. My dealer told me 5k EUR is a usual discount after the first wave of sales to enthusiasts.

Best
P