Abstraction
Well-known member
P1 has taken the first step towards becoming, what I think it will be, a software development company.
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Is it true? Fuji GFX Capture One support?
- Thread starter Christopher
- Start date
Phase One and Leica had a falling out, i could totally be wrong but I doubt Leica and C1 is ever going to happen.I joked earlier that the GFX, X1D, and Leica S were no longer competition for P1 and that C1 support would follow.
One down....
Matt
Hasselblad still has the H so is in direct competition, they were starting to get stronger so Phase One just killed Hasselblad.
They had to go with Fuji. Fuji just changed everything. Phase One can profit off Fuji's success now.
We'll see what happens with Pentax.
Mental note - not rushing into a system is a VERY good idea! i was so close to getting an X1D but I don't see that is likely now.
Skip forward to the future where Sony owns the sensor business and brings out a Medium Format camera with exclusive sensors. You just know that's going to happen at some point!
Fuji announces new mirrorless medium format cameras and lenses.
Phase one starts to support Fuji after years and years of excluding other MF vendors. How does that deal look like. We give you C1 support, you give us....?
Phase one does not have a mirrorless solution. Maybe a collaboration with Fuji on that subject was a key to make the deal happen ? Just speculating. But if Phase One wants to stay in the camera game, they'd better have a mirrorless solution, because now, they start to look like a dinosaur.
Phase one starts to support Fuji after years and years of excluding other MF vendors. How does that deal look like. We give you C1 support, you give us....?
Phase one does not have a mirrorless solution. Maybe a collaboration with Fuji on that subject was a key to make the deal happen ? Just speculating. But if Phase One wants to stay in the camera game, they'd better have a mirrorless solution, because now, they start to look like a dinosaur.
Shashin
Well-known member
Capture One for Fujifilm--download here: https://www.phaseone.com/en/Capture-One/Capture-One-Fujifilm.aspx
faberryman
Member
Junk Bond
Member
Or Fuji just buys Phase One lol
I had the same speculation as well... but couldn't make much sense out of it *at the moment* since Sony would need an entirely new manufacture line for MF camera and lenses, that is quite some $$$ into R&D.
Selling the MF chips is already quite profitable and doesn't leave Sony with the hassle of manufacturing, distribution and marketing, I suspect Sony will be going with this model for a very long time unless they see a huge profitability by joining the DMF fight.
The rather niche DMF market is as saturated with major players (P1, Hassy, Leica, Fuji & Pentax) as FF (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, and well, as of today, Panasonic), not sure if Sony could/would spare some resource to join the DMF flight.
But hey, you can never be sure what's gonna happen in a couple years
iiiNelson
Well-known member
Why would they or Fuji enter into an agreement of any sorts that excludes their premium pro flagship camera!?!
That thought process makes little sense.
I still think this is/was the natural (forced) progression for them. Many P1 owners buy a Fuji system with a few key lenses as backup tontheir P1 camera and/or a travel camera kit that’s not much larger than a DSLR. I also assume they lost some sales from people that feel 50mp is enough and 100 isn’t necessary... the. There are those that could never really afford a $50k+ back that rarely cross shop with $6k bodies.
I would think it may be in their best interests to watch everyone play their cards, and also get hooked in to their sensors. Then release a camera with a sensor that no one has access to.I had the same speculation as well... but couldn't make much sense out of it *at the moment* since Sony would need an entirely new manufacture line for MF camera and lenses, that is quite some $$$ into R&D.
Selling the MF chips is already quite profitable and doesn't leave Sony with the hassle of manufacturing, distribution and marketing, I suspect Sony will be going with this model for a very long time unless they see a huge profitability by joining the DMF fight.
The rather niche DMF market is as saturated with major players (P1, Hassy, Leica, Fuji & Pentax) as FF (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, and well, as of today, Panasonic), not sure if Sony could/would spare some resource to join the DMF flight.
But hey, you can never be sure what's gonna happen in a couple years
It's crazy to think there is Fuji, Hasselblad, Pentax, Phase One all with the same Sony sensors. It leaves them a little vulnerable. Leica is the only non Sony-sensored MFD.
That is a good point though. That would be awkward.
Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
very common for P1 owners to also own a GFX. However as one of those, the 100mp Fuji may not be good news for P1. I do have the 150mp back on order and am excited to see what it does, especially with tech camera, but I also just called my dealer to get on a waiting list for the new Fuji. It’s size and weight will make it a much more used camera than my current backup (Sony a7r3), and indeed may become my most used setup, especially when I have some hiking to do.
To me the alliance probably signals that Phase might not have a mirrorless option on the horizon, and as mentioned earlier doesn’t view Fuji as a direct competitor anymore as they seem to have abandoned the cropped MF space.
Maybe intended as a joke, but to someone who sold a majority interest in my company to a private equity firm, this investment is getting long in the tooth and I would be surprised if the PE firm isn’t looking for an exit strategy. Fuji certainly would seem to be a worthy suitor.Or Fuji just buys Phase One lol
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iiiNelson
Well-known member
I don’t disagree with you but with Phase One moving even further upmarket with the IQ4 line the potential hardware customer base shrunk that much further. I’m sure it was relatively small when it cost $25k+ to get into a newer system... the $70k+ requirement (starting fresh) is likely that much more daunting.
In any case this is a great move for both both companies and I’d be interested to see if P1 opens support to Pentax and Leica as well.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
I think the Fuji 100 is bad news for P1's hardware division. And C1 opening up to Fuji MF makes total economic sense if they think they cannot stop the Fuji behemoth anyway. They are with the back against the wall and need to create cashflow. Software is great for that. Quicker money than alpha backs shipping in 2019 ... in fact, this is a monumental shift for P1 -> with crop MF lost to the competition, investor pressure, market forces working against you re-think your priorities. This is what happened here, I would think.
Also competition wise it makes sense. Like Samsung's screen division selling OLED to Apple and Sony's sensor division selling sensors to everyone. If they got some sort of licensing revenue or full frame exclusivity out of it, then good for them.
But it won't help...
Fuji basically set the new 100MPX price point to the 10k mark, adding IBIS!! to the equation, great color science and cheaper lenses. In fact, after having seen the upsettingly low trade in offer I got for P1 for upgrading (insult to an old P1 customer) I am really tempted if P1 doesn't go down in price over the next year to go full on Fuji. I bet many are too.
I think the investors didn't foresee the Hassy crop camera and Fuji's glorious market entry back in 2014.
The sole area of retreat for P1 now is "full frame MF" (plus C1), but honestly who besides Alpa camera users needs this when you can have a Fuji for 10k at 100MPX with C1 tethering?
And for all those considering going for the P1 150 -> cancel your preorder and order next year when prices go down. My dealer here in Europe told me there's usually a price drop of 5k EUR at least once first wave of "enthusiasts" (ie rich old men that do the same landscape photos as everyone else and hang it up for relatives to applaud) + real pros bought their cameras.
Will be very interesting to see how Fuji will change the MF world.
And with P1 transitioning more towards a software company, I think dealers should become worried for what the future will hold. C1 sells via credit card and webshop ... and the Fuji 100s will sell via Amazon / B&H.
Also competition wise it makes sense. Like Samsung's screen division selling OLED to Apple and Sony's sensor division selling sensors to everyone. If they got some sort of licensing revenue or full frame exclusivity out of it, then good for them.
But it won't help...
Fuji basically set the new 100MPX price point to the 10k mark, adding IBIS!! to the equation, great color science and cheaper lenses. In fact, after having seen the upsettingly low trade in offer I got for P1 for upgrading (insult to an old P1 customer) I am really tempted if P1 doesn't go down in price over the next year to go full on Fuji. I bet many are too.
I think the investors didn't foresee the Hassy crop camera and Fuji's glorious market entry back in 2014.
The sole area of retreat for P1 now is "full frame MF" (plus C1), but honestly who besides Alpa camera users needs this when you can have a Fuji for 10k at 100MPX with C1 tethering?
And for all those considering going for the P1 150 -> cancel your preorder and order next year when prices go down. My dealer here in Europe told me there's usually a price drop of 5k EUR at least once first wave of "enthusiasts" (ie rich old men that do the same landscape photos as everyone else and hang it up for relatives to applaud) + real pros bought their cameras.
Will be very interesting to see how Fuji will change the MF world.
And with P1 transitioning more towards a software company, I think dealers should become worried for what the future will hold. C1 sells via credit card and webshop ... and the Fuji 100s will sell via Amazon / B&H.
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Fuji have the know-how, the resources, the manpower, the heritage, they've been making medium format cameras for so many decades. It's a massive company who create high quality well designed practical products for a lower price. There will be no way anyone can stop them at this point, this is what they do best and now they have infiltrated a ripe market where the competition can't compete on this level with this product. Phase One was always vulnerable to this being priced so incredibly high - fine when there is no other competition. Best to get on board with them and join the inevitable ride. In the late nineties when film started dying out Fuji bombed out to the amateur market, but all along and that long ago they were planting their seeds, building and growing, learning to make things even cheaper, and turning into a digital powerhouse. They've clawed their way back up through APS and now they've dropped a bomb on the high end market. The place they stood so long ago.
I think Capture One will stay around but they are already significantly diminished. I hope they go on to create more interesting and niche products. It would be great to see a very high end mirrorless from them.
I've been buying Phase One backs since 2004 and this the first time since then I will be moving to another brand. I never in my life thought it would be possible to see such a leap in specification, never seen before features like IBIS all at a fraction of the cost. Check mate.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Abstraction
Well-known member
Don't worry, they might be joining team Fuji right along with you.
Erik Lundqvist
Member
How does the performance compare between Lightroom and Capture One? I have no issues with Lightroom apart from performance. It is so slow.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
:clap::clap::clap::clap:
Well, I’m a very happy camper today!
I’m sure that whatever deal was worked out between Phase One and Fuji, the winners are definitely the photographic community.
Well, I’m a very happy camper today!
I’m sure that whatever deal was worked out between Phase One and Fuji, the winners are definitely the photographic community.
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Don Libby
Well-known member
Just finished loading the upgrade and after over a year of not using C1 it was refreshing to use once again. I can now return to a double click of the mouse to check focus. Sandy and I were in San Diego shooting at the Wildlife Park and have a ton of files to review from both the GFX as well as a A7rIII. We loaded the upgrade then spent way less time reviewing the files marking which ones we wanted to return to than when we were using just Adobe. This is great news. I think the merger reflects the sad news that Phase One will not be releasing a mirrorless camera and choose to partner with Fuji.
PeterA
Well-known member
Fuji won the 'super ff' game as soon as they announced the GFXS a couple of years ago. I was in a phase One dealership the other day and made the point ( again ) that Capture One is silly not opening its software up to other medium format backs and the response ( again) was a smug grin followed by (again)- if you want Capture One in MF you need to buy a Phase One back, to which I replied (again) - been there done that matey mate - never gunna happen. Fuji have also smashed Hasselblad as much because of the Capture One alliance as the fact that their total product offer, lens portfolio and development timetable is unlikely to be troubled for as long as Hasselblad insists on pushing their lens offer ( like Phase one) at prices not in line with performance.
I've been mucking around with a GFX for a couple of weeks and as an XID user am glad I am putting myself through the test and think curve. This Capture One announcement makes the decision to move to a unified shooting space as far as gear goes much more appealing the ramifications are enormous as I've also been testing Fuji X series cameras over the last couple of years - against my benchmark Leica SL. Again - the price performance differential is well in Fuji territory and I am now wondering whether a switch to Fuji X and Fuji GFX and out of everything else isn't the smartest move as far as rationalising a bloated shooting ecosystyem goes. Have a look at the just announced 200/2 Fuji X series telephoto if you want to get an idea of what Fuji has in store for SoCaNikon.
The only missing link in Capture One is a unified DAM capability ala LR - however I need to explore some construction around this . Of course this Capture One announcement might be the kick in the pants that Adobe needs to put some serious effort into their product - a product which has become increasingly less appealing with each new iteration.
CaptureOne has the ability to develop itself into a real alternative to Adobe if it chooses to go down that route (which would mean opening their software up to all camera systems and formats) - as far as their camera offer goes it will become increasingly more and more stuck in lala land- 100megapixels and IBIS for a quarter of the cost of your clunky offer Phase One - that is what Phase One and its investors have to deal with - and Phase One does not have the established user base or product spread of Leica to follow their model.
In Fuji land I can score a 100megapixelIBIS4Kcapable camera and a slew of top quality lenses for 20K. In Leica land that buys me an M10 and a Noctilux or an SL and a zoom with an adaptor for my M lenses....meanwhile Hasselblad has annoucned a few new lenses - the most interesting of which is a 90/1.2 with twin autofocus motors this lens alone will cost 3/4 of the price of a the 100GFX or more than the 50 megapixeld GFXs or R...again - forgedaboudit.
Radical price re calibrations are coming folks - and even then perhaps it wont be enough for a few companies to survive anyway.
I've been mucking around with a GFX for a couple of weeks and as an XID user am glad I am putting myself through the test and think curve. This Capture One announcement makes the decision to move to a unified shooting space as far as gear goes much more appealing the ramifications are enormous as I've also been testing Fuji X series cameras over the last couple of years - against my benchmark Leica SL. Again - the price performance differential is well in Fuji territory and I am now wondering whether a switch to Fuji X and Fuji GFX and out of everything else isn't the smartest move as far as rationalising a bloated shooting ecosystyem goes. Have a look at the just announced 200/2 Fuji X series telephoto if you want to get an idea of what Fuji has in store for SoCaNikon.
The only missing link in Capture One is a unified DAM capability ala LR - however I need to explore some construction around this . Of course this Capture One announcement might be the kick in the pants that Adobe needs to put some serious effort into their product - a product which has become increasingly less appealing with each new iteration.
CaptureOne has the ability to develop itself into a real alternative to Adobe if it chooses to go down that route (which would mean opening their software up to all camera systems and formats) - as far as their camera offer goes it will become increasingly more and more stuck in lala land- 100megapixels and IBIS for a quarter of the cost of your clunky offer Phase One - that is what Phase One and its investors have to deal with - and Phase One does not have the established user base or product spread of Leica to follow their model.
In Fuji land I can score a 100megapixelIBIS4Kcapable camera and a slew of top quality lenses for 20K. In Leica land that buys me an M10 and a Noctilux or an SL and a zoom with an adaptor for my M lenses....meanwhile Hasselblad has annoucned a few new lenses - the most interesting of which is a 90/1.2 with twin autofocus motors this lens alone will cost 3/4 of the price of a the 100GFX or more than the 50 megapixeld GFXs or R...again - forgedaboudit.
Radical price re calibrations are coming folks - and even then perhaps it wont be enough for a few companies to survive anyway.