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Leica S3

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Thats a tricky sell. They probably still figure out pricing. Will be tough game with the Fuji 100 at 10k. Not sure Leica 64 at 20k will sell like pancakes.
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
According to German sources (Profifoto), pricing will be 24K EUR.
OMG. Thats very tricky. Although I love Leica, this is even more ridiculous than P1 at this point. They should make it 14k or so and then I'd seriously consider it. 24k is like 30k with one good CS lens or so. Not sure about this being a good deal.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Thats a tricky sell. They probably still figure out pricing. Will be tough game with the Fuji 100 at 10k. Not sure Leica 64 at 20k will sell like pancakes.
Once the OVF advantages over that of EVF are espoused and people reminded that this is the last of the SLRs, sure they will sell a few. :)
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Once the OVF advantages over that of EVF are espoused and people reminded that this is the last of the SLRs, sure they will sell a few. :)
Actually, I think they will sell more than just a few. I had an S-006 and while a wonderful camera with an exceptional OVF, in the end, the weight of the thing precluded it as a walk around MF. However, those lenses were simply outstanding and I would expect them to offer even more with the predicted 64 mp. I would rank an S 100/2 above my Zeiss Otus 55. Against my MF Rodenstocks - hard to say - but more character for sure.
I think this is exciting news but let's see how the pricing compares with the competition. After having suffered an M-P 240 I swore I would never, ever visit a Leica store again...
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Good luck to Leica with this brave price point and new camera - am very happy for all those who are still invested in S system to see Leica continue to invest in it, thus avoiding the dump without apology scenario many of us had to deal with with the R system.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
24kEuros ? Ouch ! That's a really, really tough sell :-(

Some tech specs have leaked:
https://leicarumors.com/2018/09/25/...formation-full-technical-specifications.aspx/
Yup. If that is the price point, I will be shopping to see what kind of deals I can get for my S, S2 and all the lenses from Phase One etc. But I suspect I will be forced to mostly just eat the loss, and go with a Fuji 100mp when it comes out. Either that, wait even longer until Leica figures out that no one will pay 24K euros for a crop sensor medium format at 64mp when the competition is offering 100mp at 1/3rd the cost, and 50mp at 4500 USD. They can't hide behind the medium format mystique anymore, or even brand snobbism...you can get your premium Hasselblad X1D for 6500 dollars, and they are sure to update their resolution as well.
 

DB5

Member
In the Luminous Landscape videos, Leica have said that the S is a strategic product. I think it's there mainly for marketing to appear like they are a Pro brand. It's a store front. They have worked their numbers to make sure they can get by on what market they have.

This S3 is very disappointing and I agree that this should have been the 007. 10 years for this? It's made worse it won't be out till end of next year.

I accept that the camera is there for Leica's image and will keep my distance from it. It's a shame, I think it's a really nice system but there are no new lenses, and apart from more MP, which is long overdue, the processor and everything else remain the same. It really doesn't look like the system is growing or intends to grow.

I know many like and have an interest in the system - I think it's really great and I understand why you could fall in love with it. But it's totally the wrong deal for me and if it's really $28K then that totally kills of any interest I had in it. All aboard the Fuji GFX 100 train!
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Yup. If that is the price point, I will be shopping to see what kind of deals I can get for my S, S2 and all the lenses from Phase One etc. But I suspect I will be forced to mostly just eat the loss, and go with a Fuji 100mp when it comes out. Either that, wait even longer until Leica figures out that no one will pay 24K euros for a crop sensor medium format at 64mp when the competition is offering 100mp at 1/3rd the cost, and 50mp at 4500 USD. They can't hide behind the medium format mystique anymore, or even brand snobbism...you can get your premium Hasselblad X1D for 6500 dollars, and they are sure to update their resolution as well.
It is a game now being played out- on one side compelling value from Fuji matched with outstanding glass and a soon to come class leading 100megapixel camera with IBIS; and on the other side

PhaseOne/Hasselblad and Leica with people owning a lot of very expensive glass.

I think Capture One capitulation on raw processing side is a major strategic concession to the future. From a Japanese symbolic perspective getting the CEO of Capture One to get on the stage with Fuji to announce the support of all Fuji products was tantamount to a public surrender - very very powerful statement by both parties.

Interesting to note that Sony annoucned nothing except to say to CaNikon that they are way behind Sony good luck catching up and btw Sony will bring out another 20 or so lenses in 2019....and as an aside check out eye autofocus on wildlife now...

The only company with similar technology and capability on hand is Fuji and they are stalking SoCaNikon from below - vcia APC and similar sextreme high quality for low price strategy.

The L mount 'partnership' is a reluctant ackowledgement by Leica/Panasonic and Sigma that they need to reluctantly form a JV in order to achieve sustainabel scale in lens share.

All these corporate moves are based on Private Equity ownership of Phase One and Leica V Sony and Fuji ( traditional Japanese corporations) and as a quiet aside the Chinese drone manufacturer who now owns Hasselblad.

Massive industry rationalisation coming over the next few years.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
It is a game now being played out- on one side compelling value from Fuji matched with outstanding glass and a soon to come class leading 100megapixel camera with IBIS; and on the other side

PhaseOne/Hasselblad and Leica with people owning a lot of very expensive glass.

I think Capture One capitulation on raw processing side is a major strategic concession to the future. From a Japanese symbolic perspective getting the CEO of Capture One to get on the stage with Fuji to announce the support of all Fuji products was tantamount to a public surrender - very very powerful statement by both parties.

Interesting to note that Sony annoucned nothing except to say to CaNikon that they are way behind Sony good luck catching up and btw Sony will bring out another 20 or so lenses in 2019....and as an aside check out eye autofocus on wildlife now...

The only company with similar technology and capability on hand is Fuji and they are stalking SoCaNikon from below - vcia APC and similar sextreme high quality for low price strategy.

The L mount 'partnership' is a reluctant ackowledgement by Leica/Panasonic and Sigma that they need to reluctantly form a JV in order to achieve sustainabel scale in lens share.

All these corporate moves are based on Private Equity ownership of Phase One and Leica V Sony and Fuji ( traditional Japanese corporations) and as a quiet aside the Chinese drone manufacturer who now owns Hasselblad.

Massive industry rationalisation coming over the next few years.
Yes, I bought into the S2 system before the Nikon D800 even came out. If you had told me at the time that I bought the S2 that the resolution would stay the same for 10 plus years, while every other manufacturer continued to grow with even every 35mm manufacturer surpassing it years in advance, I do not think I would have invested in it. The hard fact now is that I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for cameras and lenses which are only mountable to an extremely expensive, largely uncompetitive camera. The problem is really price more than anything else. It would be very attractive if it were priced like the Fuji and Hasselblad, but when it is priced like three or four Fuji's and Hasselblads, it is extremely frustrating. If this is a private equity issue, then I guess at least we can be thankful that we have not been given a Leica Lunar...
 

satybhat

Member
Yes, I bought into the S2 system before the Nikon D800 even came out. If you had told me at the time that I bought the S2 that the resolution would stay the same for 10 plus years, while every other manufacturer continued to grow with even every 35mm manufacturer surpassing it years in advance, I do not think I would have invested in it. The hard fact now is that I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for cameras and lenses which are only mountable to an extremely expensive, largely uncompetitive camera. The problem is really price more than anything else. It would be very attractive if it were priced like the Fuji and Hasselblad, but when it is priced like three or four Fuji's and Hasselblads, it is extremely frustrating. If this is a private equity issue, then I guess at least we can be thankful that we have not been given a Leica Lunar...
There is no denying the fact that price points hit the most ardent fans first. I was heavily invested in the system as well, then switched to phase IQ380, before having to sell that system as well (I needed to put in a deposit on a property). Now, I think sense has prevailed and since I don't shoot commercially anymore, I am quite at peace with my pentax 67ii + 2 lenses. After all, was it not Leica who not long ago said that they thought 37MP WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH for whatever you wanted to do? I might take up that advice and buy back the S006 (or 007) !
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Yes, I bought into the S2 system before the Nikon D800 even came out. If you had told me at the time that I bought the S2 that the resolution would stay the same for 10 plus years, while every other manufacturer continued to grow with even every 35mm manufacturer surpassing it years in advance, I do not think I would have invested in it. The hard fact now is that I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for cameras and lenses which are only mountable to an extremely expensive, largely uncompetitive camera. The problem is really price more than anything else. It would be very attractive if it were priced like the Fuji and Hasselblad, but when it is priced like three or four Fuji's and Hasselblads, it is extremely frustrating. If this is a private equity issue, then I guess at least we can be thankful that we have not been given a Leica Lunar...
I have enormous sympathy for people like you who have invested so much in glass that they are almost 'locked in' to a camera body....I went through similar with Hasselblad and Leica R as well as Leica S.... It has taken me years to get over the embarassment of huge financial loss ( let alone the disapointment of company after company making promises and then just exiting from the market and leaving me stranded) eg Sinar/Leica R or just being silly ( Leica S ) - quite frankly I have more confidence in Fuji or Sony than all the other current manufacturers combined *10.

Which is why I have just traded my XID out and jhave placed an order for a Fuji50S and 3 lenses - happy to use that as my second body when a year from now I pick up the 100megapixel version. The cost to me of this switch is an XID body and a lens and a Leica SL lens - no brainer -especially as I know from testing I lose nothing in terms of IQ.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Its a given that in the small medium format space ...Fuji and HB have set a new lower price point with their EVF systems . But I need no sympathy for my dedication to the Leica brand . The S product line has been the finest photographic equipment I have had the pleasure of using and I have no interest in trading out of it .

WHY ??

The S body to me is elegant (in a manner similar to a fine automobile ) . I prefer an OVF for a range of subjects (but acknowledge the benefits of a strong EVF) . The system is completely weather proofed . With the exception of the Da%& AF gear problem (fixed 100% by Leica for 10 lenses @ a cost to me of $250 ) ...the cameras have been bullet proof .

To my eye no finer set of lenses exist and they share a common aesthetic (which is important if you work with collections of images taken over time ).

VALUE PROPOSITION

This issue is not on my radar at all . Sure I have avoided the Phase One ...because having a $50K back depreciate to $20K in less than two years would make me feel bad . But buying a $25K camera that will depreciate to $10K in 3 years ..thats $5K a year .

What is important is that I can maintain a system that I find terrific into the future . This I worry about ..not because my gear will depreciate ....but because there will be no future improvements .

For my requirements the S 007 ticked all the boxes ..except 37.5MP just is not enough if you print large or want to crop an image . 64MP is enough ......for me .

My order has been in for some time and my disappointment is that (1) the first shipment will not be until next spring (which means about now next year ) and (2) they have committed nothing to new lenses and appear to have dropped the 350MM they promised almost 10 years ago . (not that I need it ). Agree 100% that they appear to be phasing out the product line in favor of the SL .

So I will be a happy customer when I get my S3 .
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Its a given that in the small medium format space ...Fuji and HB have set a new lower price point with their EVF systems . But I need no sympathy for my dedication to the Leica brand . The S product line has been the finest photographic equipment I have had the pleasure of using and I have no interest in trading out of it .

WHY ??

The S body to me is elegant (in a manner similar to a fine automobile ) . I prefer an OVF for a range of subjects (but acknowledge the benefits of a strong EVF) . The system is completely weather proofed . With the exception of the Da%& AF gear problem (fixed 100% by Leica for 10 lenses @ a cost to me of $250 ) ...the cameras have been bullet proof .

To my eye no finer set of lenses exist and they share a common aesthetic (which is important if you work with collections of images taken over time ).

VALUE PROPOSITION

This issue is not on my radar at all . Sure I have avoided the Phase One ...because having a $50K back depreciate to $20K in less than two years would make me feel bad . But buying a $25K camera that will depreciate to $10K in 3 years ..thats $5K a year .

What is important is that I can maintain a system that I find terrific into the future . This I worry about ..not because my gear will depreciate ....but because there will be no future improvements .

For my requirements the S 007 ticked all the boxes ..except 37.5MP just is not enough if you print large or want to crop an image . 64MP is enough ......for me .

My order has been in for some time and my disappointment is that (1) the first shipment will not be until next spring (which means about now next year ) and (2) they have committed nothing to new lenses and appear to have dropped the 350MM they promised almost 10 years ago . (not that I need it ). Agree 100% that they appear to be phasing out the product line in favor of the SL .

So I will be a happy customer when I get my S3 .
I bought into the S line for the same positives you outline above. Very understandable reference set you have.

I'm intrigued as to why you think the SL is being favoured tbh - the SL lenses are all capable of rendering to 100megapixels + but to date ( hence why I am buying Fuji to use now becaue it is available now and will only get better later....) the SL lenses are restricted to a 24 megapixel chip...I think Leica has serious conflicts of interest between the two systems a lot of potential overlap artificially held apart somewhat by the dual use leaf and focal plane shutter option in S lenses. This seeming confusion is irritating tbh - and life is too short to be irritated for too long. I am prepared to give Leica another year to announce the SL2 but if form factor is radically changed and specifications dont do justice to the lenses I have - I 'm OUT and I am moving partially out already - selling my beloved 90-280 which has been crying out for a 1.4 or two 2X convertor but nothing....nada ...buys me (almost) an XT3 and a 200/2 Fuji for telephoto work delivering an equivalent 400/2.8 for a couple of bucks more than than the 90-280 is worth alone.

the price value proposition for my shooting requirements is not even close comparing IQ betwen systems alone Fuji has Leica SL and S covered, as for shootong pleasure - Fuji has it in bucket loads.
 
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