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Thread: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Perhaps flying under the radar, Alpa today announced the new Alpa 12 Plus:

    https://captureintegration.com/new-a...hotoplus-2018/


    Capture Integration will be exhibiting in booth #1028 at PhotoPlus Expo starting 10am, October 25, 2018.

    Among the items we will have in our booth will be a Phase One IQ4 150 and the just announced Alpa 12 Plus.


    Please come by and say hello if you're attending the show. There is a link for free Expo passes at the bottom of the below link.

    https://captureintegration.com/visit...18-booth-1028/



    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
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    Authorized Reseller TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar •
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    You’ve got to enjoy and applaud Steve’s salesmanship of the new Alpa “speed shift.”
    While most users of technical cameras enjoy slowly contemplating the possibilities of art creation with shift and tilt, Steve 🎺 trumpets the seconds saved by shifting quickly.
    Reminds me of my 1960 MGA, when I could speed shift, double clutch while down shifting and enjoy the sound of that muffler when I wound up that tiny but powerful engine.
    Nevertheless, I must agree with a Steve that The Alpa is great looking, precision instrument 🎻.
    Stanley
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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    You’ve got to enjoy and applaud Steve’s salesmanship of the new Alpa “speed shift.”
    While most users of technical cameras enjoy slowly contemplating the possibilities of art creation with shift and tilt, Steve 🎺 trumpets the seconds saved by shifting quickly.
    Reminds me of my 1960 MGA, when I could speed shift, double clutch while down shifting and enjoy the sound of that muffler when I wound up that tiny but powerful engine.
    Nevertheless, I must agree with a Steve that The Alpa is great looking, precision instrument 🎻.
    Stanley

    I tend to have the voice of the Top Gear lads in mind when I'm writing.

    And I do try to have fun when I write!

    Regarding speed mode, I actually do get anxious when light is changing rapidly.




    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Authorized Reseller Digital Cam: • Phase One | Fuji | Leica | Hasselblad •
    Authorized Reseller TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar •

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Perhaps flying under the radar, Alpa today announced the new Alpa 12 Plus:

    https://captureintegration.com/new-a...hotoplus-2018/
    You might want to fix the SSL certificate. I know it's only a few hours out, but it's still not a good look...

    captureintegration.com uses an invalid security certificate.

    The certificate expired on 24 October 2018, 06:01. The current time is 24 October 2018, 09:29.

    Error code: SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieAB View Post
    You might want to fix the SSL certificate. I know it's only a few hours out, but it's still not a good look...

    Thanks for the heads up!


    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Authorized Reseller Digital Cam: • Phase One | Fuji | Leica | Hasselblad •
    Authorized Reseller TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar •

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    At ~1000 grams I'm interested. I've always wanted a Max but couldn't get over the size.

    Dave
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Perhaps flying under the radar, Alpa today announced the new Alpa 12 Plus:

    https://captureintegration.com/new-a...hotoplus-2018/


    Capture Integration will be exhibiting in booth #1028 at PhotoPlus Expo starting 10am, October 25, 2018.

    Among the items we will have in our booth will be a Phase One IQ4 150 and the just announced Alpa 12 Plus.


    Please come by and say hello if you're attending the show. There is a link for free Expo passes at the bottom of the below link.

    https://captureintegration.com/visit...18-booth-1028/



    Steve Hendrix/CI

    Website is back up:

    https://captureintegration.com/new-a...hotoplus-2018/
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Authorized Reseller Digital Cam: • Phase One | Fuji | Leica | Hasselblad •
    Authorized Reseller TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar •

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    That ALPA 12 PLUS . How awesome . I don't need that camera . But I want it .
    Dante is always present and most successful .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Senior Member Abstraction's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Does it do tilts and swings?

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    At ~1000 grams I'm interested. I've always wanted a Max but couldn't get over the size.

    Dave
    The weight difference is minimal in the hand (I handled both up in a store yesterday)
    It is smaller - right between the Max and STC, though it's partly due to cutting down the front rise, from 25 to 20mm. That's a shame imho, as front rise is #1 movement for most people, but maybe the trade off is worth it - ymmv!

    Biggest shame is the lack of built in tilt, a la Cambo. That would have transformed this into a must have.

    Oh, and it's about $7000 for the bare bones body ! Alpa never cease to amaze...
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    I think the days of movements being a necessity for any kind of photography are at the end of their lifetime.

    Victor
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstraction View Post
    Does it do tilts and swings?
    Yes, but only down to 32mm.

    Dave
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Yes, but only down to 32mm.

    Dave
    And with the correct Short barrel lenses and tilt adaptor.
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I think the days of movements being a necessity for any kind of photography are at the end of their lifetime.

    Victor
    Movements may not be a necessity, but in photographing images where objects are moving within the scene and focus stacking isn’t an option; TILT definitely adds a huge improvement to the final image.
    I also find movements a extremely helpful tool preventing the appearance of leaning buildings etc.
    Stanley
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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Looks like a real monstrosity. What ever happened to SIMPLE ?

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Looks like a real monstrosity. What ever happened to SIMPLE ?
    Quite the contrary. Without eShutter / Silex it really IS simple.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I think the days of movements being a necessity for any kind of photography are at the end of their lifetime.

    Victor
    Can you elaborate? Are you saying this because one can tilt up and correct keystoning in post? Or because one can shoot extra wide and crop in post? I'd love to hear why movements are becoming obsolete.
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Looks like a real monstrosity. What ever happened to SIMPLE ?
    I don't understand, Doug. No buttons, switches, batteries, cords, viewfinder, lightmeter, focus mode, picture mode, A/S/M priority, custom functions or menu system. Doesn't even come with a manual. How many pages are there in the D850 manual? If I choose to shoot digital, that adds a whopping 5 buttons.

    Don't get me wrong: I understand it is a whole lot less versatile than a D850, but it certainly checks the simplicity box.

    Dave
    Last edited by dchew; 25th October 2018 at 04:25.
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    Movements may not be a necessity, but in photographing images where objects are moving within the scene and focus stacking isn’t an option; TILT definitely adds a huge improvement to the final image.
    I also find movements a extremely helpful tool preventing the appearance of leaning buildings etc.
    Stanley
    I agree. Also, I find that in general when I shoot focus stack sets (or exposure blends) those end up being the images that I seldom get around to processing later and end up going for those shots taken as single images.

    For me, tilt and especially rise & fall, are movements that I use extensively. I know that we have lots of pixels to crop these days but I do prefer getting a straight shot vs shooting wider to handle rise/fall/subject tilt/keystone, and similarly near/far focus in a single image.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    There is something beautiful about seeing a RAW file which is all corrected for perspective.

    The new Alpa body looks like a splendid evolution, I wouldn't mind...
    Alpa 12 Plus • TC | Schneider 90N | Schneider 120N | Hasselblad X1D | XCD 21 | XCD 45 | XCD 90 | www.danlindberg.com
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I think the days of movements being a necessity for any kind of photography are at the end of their lifetime.

    Victor
    I think there's a lot of truth in that statement - stick a wide angle lens and a 150MP DB on the camera and you have a lot of room to crop and yet still retain a high resolution image - higher in fact than MFDBs of just a few years ago (though you really need to be rigorous in terms of your technique to get close to realising all those 150MP).

    That said, I still like to do as much in-camera as possible because i) time in the great outdoors is worth far more to me than sitting in front of a computer tweaking things that could have been sorted in the field, and ii) it just feels ... right.
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Exactly - whilst you can crop/bend images the original 100mp will always be better.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 25th October 2018 at 02:48.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I think the days of movements being a necessity for any kind of photography are at the end of their lifetime.

    Victor
    i have to disagree. 90% of my work is shot with a cambo actus. i wouldn’t want to change the way i work and make compromises by using a non-movement camera system.
    i shoot mostly tabletop still-life and for that movements are essential and often for reasons a landscape photographer might not realise.
    for example when shooting bottles/glasses the eye/camera viewpoint and the curve of the glass rim and if the bottle is ‘grounded’ with a shallow curved base are all part of the composition and can not be done in post. and why would you when you can do it with movements? also you often have to hide the camera reflection in a matt label not shiny glass and shift to fit the frame. and lets not start on the movements used in watch photography which i do a lot of.

    if the industry decides it’s no longer viable to produce cameras with movements then i guess i’ll be shooting on the cambo until i retire.
    They are just tools for a job.
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    Senior Member Abstraction's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by med View Post
    And with the correct Short barrel lenses and tilt adaptor.
    I don't get its utility then. If the tilt options are so limited and my understanding is that there's no swing, then why not just slap at TSE lens on the camera or get an Actus DB? What am I missing?

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstraction View Post
    I don't get its utility then. If the tilt options are so limited and my understanding is that there's no swing, then why not just slap at TSE lens on the camera or get an Actus DB? What am I missing?
    The beauty of the Alpa system is that you can choose where you want to insert adapters and in which direction. You can use one between the camera and the lens for tilt and another one for swing between the camera and the back, or both on the front, or both on the back.
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Alpa have tilt adapters for lenses. You aren’t losing anything here other than the cost of their 6/12 degree tilt adapters.

    The camera body provides all the required shift/riser/fall needed. The tilts come from an additional adapter.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstraction View Post
    I don't get its utility then. If the tilt options are so limited and my understanding is that there's no swing, then why not just slap at TSE lens on the camera or get an Actus DB? What am I missing?
    There is swing; you just mount the tilt adapter axis vertically, just like you would rotate a TSE lens axis for swing.

    Vs Slapping on a TSE lens:
    You can only tilt/swing/rise/fall the TSE lens, not all your lenses. With this setup: 1) all your lenses will tilt/swing/rise/fall as long as you have one tilt adapter. The limitation is you cannot tilt or swing Rodenstock lenses wider than 32mm, or SK lenses wider than 60mm. 2) You can rise/fall AND shift at the same time; can't do that with a TSE. 3) You can tilt/swing/rise/fall the back instead of the lens if you want to. A TSE lens is much more limited in options. My tilt adapter is essentially permanently mounted to the STC so all my lenses tilt or swing. The one exception is if I use the sk 35xl.

    Vs an Actus DB:
    In my opinion, as long as you have a back with live view for accurate focus, the Actus is the better option for most starting from scratch. More versatile and once you get to ~4 lenses it is lighter. I suspect most of those interested in the Alpa 12 Plus will be people who already have a stable of Alpa helical-mounted lenses. In my case, even though the price is ridiculous it is cheaper than remounting my lenses for an Actus, not to mention buying the Actus too. I have an STC which I love, but it cannot rise/fall AND shift at the same time.

    As pointed out above, there are other software ways to accomplish the results of rise/fall/shift. I like to see and frame the finished image while in the field, but that is just a personal preference.

    Dave
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    To digress a little….. it has been my experience that shifting, swinging or tilting takes its toll on the image in the form of lost resolution. There isn’t a lens made that can shift even 10mm and not show some loss of detail on the edges. That’s my main issue with movements. If I need straight lines I would much prefer to pan three or four portrait images with a wider lens and then stitch and crop. I will have all the pixels I need and the image will be, for sure, sharper with more micro detail than if I had shifted. Software solutions for correcting keystone are almost as bad, if not worse, than shifting. Of the two I would probably shift.

    Granted…. There will always be some image that just can’t be taken with this technique but then there are images that can’t be taken with any amount of shifting.

    No matter what it makes no sense to me to throw away resolution if there is another solution.

    YMMV

    Victor
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Interesting discussion. Each of us have different ways of finding the moment, or the vision of the shot.

    I grew up looking at classical architectural compositions from the early masters, and so for me there is something fundamentally satisfying about getting the shot composed and set up in the field. Movements are key to that way of working.

    Yet others do more of their work in post - is that just correction, or is it an extension of the original vision? Hard to say. Perhaps a sliding scale? Cropping and stitching could be seen as honoring the original composition, whereas more aggressive work in post, such as adjusted alignments, special panoramics or other "assemblies" possibly move the creative moment to the computer? That's probably just fine, each their own, but its still satisfying to get it right in the field...
    Last edited by Geoff; 25th October 2018 at 07:03.

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    The ALPA 12 PLUS is 7378€ here and will be available in the first week of November .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Be careful, Dave, or next thing you know you'll find the "need" for an IQ4 150 to handle the extra shifts!

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    At ~1000 grams I'm interested. I've always wanted a Max but couldn't get over the size.

    Dave
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by jng View Post
    Be careful, Dave, or next thing you know you'll find the "need" for an IQ4 150 to handle the extra shifts!
    Yeah, as usual my wish list is ten times the size of my wallet. IQ4 150, Rodi 138mm f/6.5, Alpa 12 Plus, 44" printer to replace my 9-year old Epson...

    Ain't no way much if any of that is going to happen.

    Dave
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Yeah, as usual my wish list is ten times the size of my wallet.
    . . . . .

    Dave
    Dave , not only your wallet is giong to suffer . Mine too . DANTE is hardworking , really . He must have a contract with ALPA . My ALPA 12 PLUS is on order . The first lot is already sold . So mine will be shipped mid NOVEMBER .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Yeah, as usual my wish list is ten times the size of my wallet.
    Only ten times, lucky you. I don't dare to do the math
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Dave , not only your wallet is giong to suffer . Mine too . DANTE is hardworking , really . He must have a contract with ALPA . My ALPA 12 PLUS is on order . The first lot is already sold . So mine will be shipped mid NOVEMBER .
    Congratulations I'm sure it will be great! Don't forget to show us your setup when it arrives
    Alpa 12 Plus • TC | Schneider 90N | Schneider 120N | Hasselblad X1D | XCD 21 | XCD 45 | XCD 90 | www.danlindberg.com
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    I transitioned to the Actus DB which gives me every movement I’d ever need, but, a bellows camera has its disadvantages in bad weather, wind etc. That’s where I miss having a solid body technical camera with helicoids etc.

    There’s no perfect set up for every situation alas.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Looks nice, but the cheap plastic knobs ruin the outift IMHO and 20mm rise and shift
    is standard on my Cambo WRS 1600 not to mention the built in flip from horizontal
    to vertical which is really handy. And for the record, NO, the Swiss DO NOT have any
    better CNC than the DMC MORI Cambo uses, so it´s a little bit overpriced for what it
    has to offer, (100% to be clear) but that´s just my irrelevant opinion.

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Congratulations I'm sure it will be great! Don't forget to show us your setup when it arrives
    Thank you Dan . There is still a little chance to get a "PLUS" from the first lot .
    I will know more by tomorrow evening . Exiting times are coming up .
    And yes , I will show my setup with the "PLUS" when available .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phase V View Post
    Looks nice, but the cheap plastic knobs ruin the outift
    They are certainly not "cheap plastic" - pretty tough stuff, of high quality. Been standard on Alpa Tech cameras for years now, and I've never heard of any issues.

    There's a line of thought that plastic is cheap and bad, and metal is automatically good. Have to say that isn't so. Try cold weather, for one random example. Metal expands and contracts by temp, affecting tolerances, for another. It's heavier, for a third, etc...

    I vaguely recall some quote by by Mr Toyoda, the genius who founded Toyota about "heavier than needed is bad design"

    (not picking on Cambo, they make excellent products, just sayin'...)

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Oh, there's also Colin Chapman - F1 Lotus design genius:

    "Simplify, then add lightness."
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    "When your rear wheel overtakes you, you know that you're sitting in a lotus."

    Graham Hill


    Greeting Gerd
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phase V View Post
    Looks nice, but the cheap plastic knobs ruin the outift ...
    Yeah, as others have said - there's plastic, and then there's plastic - and the dials on the Alpa are absolutely top notch, with brass inserts that make them even more of a joy to use.

    As far as the Alpa 12 Plus is concerned, I still prefer the plain old vanilla Alpa 12. Why ? i) just seems a cleaner overall design without all the corners of the Plus, and ii) there's hardly any real daylight between the functionality of one over the functionality of the other.

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    I love my Cambo and would agree that CNC machining with any of these manufacturers is superb. However, having owned Alpa’s for many years, I have to say that the Alpa/Seitz industrial design and attention to detail such as ball bearing detents, brass rails etc etc really is a level above the competition, albeit it’s a very subtle difference. However, it does come at a cost, even with the plastic and 3D printed parts like lens hoods.

    If you absolutely want the best though, there is basically nobody better than Alpa. (And yes, I’m biased).
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I love my Cambo and would agree that CNC machining with any of these manufacturers is superb. However, having owned Alpa’s for many years, I have to say that the Alpa/Seitz industrial design and attention to detail such as ball bearing detents, brass rails etc etc really is a level above the competition, albeit it’s a very subtle difference. However, it does come at a cost, even with the plastic and 3D printed parts like lens hoods.

    If you absolutely want the best though, there is basically nobody better than Alpa. (And yes, I’m biased).
    Am I biased too ? ? ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I love my Cambo and would agree that CNC machining with any of these manufacturers is superb. However, having owned Alpa’s for many years, I have to say that the Alpa/Seitz industrial design and attention to detail such as ball bearing detents, brass rails etc etc really is a level above the competition, albeit it’s a very subtle difference. However, it does come at a cost, even with the plastic and 3D printed parts like lens hoods.

    If you absolutely want the best though, there is basically nobody better than Alpa. (And yes, I’m biased).
    What you are actually saying is that you really like the quality of the anodising and the carefully chosen material quality and presentation of the fasteners used to make these baubles yeah? Nothing wrong qith that - it is male jewelry like those Swiss watches we all buy and wear - which cant match the time accuracy of an Iphone . It isnt about real 'functionality' or amenity or even utility really is it? It is about the 'look' it is all about the 'look'...

    have to dash off now because I am going to fondle a Leica M10-D have been waiting for years for the re-introduction of a film advance lever on a digital camera.....
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Peter,

    Yes you nailed it. I’m not too proud to admit that I like quality things. Heck I wear an IWC Portugueser or Omega Seamaster - neither of which are as accurate as my iWatch but I don’t care.

    And the M10 D is on my radar for no rational reason other than I want one.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 26th October 2018 at 01:12.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Back on topic. What’s not to like about a more compact Alpa Max. When I had one, the size / form factor was a pain to fit in a bag. The new body looks easier to fit.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Peter,

    Yes you you nailed it. I’m not too proud to admit that I like quality things. Heck I wear an IWC Portugueser or Omega Seamaster - neither of which are as accurate as my iWatch but I don’t care.

    And the M10 D is on my radar for no rational reason other than I want one.
    Totally agree with your perspective - not as if life is a dress rehearsal right?
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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Totally agree with your perspective - not as if life is a dress rehearsal right?
    exactly!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...

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    Re: Alpa 12 Plus Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I think the days of movements being a necessity for any kind of photography are at the end of their lifetime.

    Victor
    This is both a bizarre and willfully ignorant statement to come out with.

    Had you said "most kinds...", then maybe you could argue the point.

    But "any"?

    Remarkable.

    Every single photo (not including cell phone snaps of course) I have taken in the last couple of years has used tilt and swing and shift and rise/fall. Not just one of those - all of them. Every single shot.

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