For anyone who has C1 v. 11 or prior versions and might be thinking of downloading a 30 day trial of v. 12 to check it out, don’t do it. I owned and was using C1 v. 10 and decided to check out v. 11 a few weeks ago, so I downloaded a what i was told was a trial copy for 30 days. I tried it and didn’t see any justification for spending the money on that upgrade. However, when I went to start using my copy of v. 10 again, I could no longer open my Catalog. The way Capture One is configured, once the Catalog is used with a newer version of Capture One, it no longer opens with earlier versions. I had no choice at that point but to pay the “ransom” of $105 to upgrade so I could again get back to work and use my Catalog. No warnings about this from Phase One, nothing. What an incredibly deceptive business practice. Tricking someone into believing they were offering a free trial. Of course, to add insult to injury, 6 weeks later, Phase releases yet another new version of C1. Free upgrade? No! Strict 30 day rule. Free upgrade only if you purchased within the last 30 days, even if they essentially forced you to buy the prior upgrade. Nice company to do business with.
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
Capture One V. 12: Don’t “Try It”
- Thread starter hcubell
- Start date
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
There is a note about this when you first open the catalog in a new version of C1 but I can see where you excitedly clicked through it. Below is an example. Of course yours would have said "10.something" where this one says "11.3"
The backup that is automatically made for you should still be in the Package Contents of the catalog and you can restore it and return to using v10.
As an aside, DT generally suggests sessions over catalogs for most users (of course, there are times where catalogs are the better option).
Regarding the timing of your purchase. That sucks. The 30 day grace period is, like any arbitrary rule, always going to leave some people annoyingly close-but-on-the-wrong-side of the rule, but if they extended it 6 weeks (for example) there would be a group of users who bought 6.1 weeks ago that would be annoyed they were so close to that period. For what it's worth I think two months would be a better policy than 30 days, but I don't make the rules.
Moving forward, it might help you in the future to have the below reference list of C1 release updates. The past is not a guarantee of the future, but it's a pretty good guide:
- 2015, Nov 30: Capture One v9
- 2016, Dec 01: Capture One v10
- 2017, Nov 30: Capture One v11
- 2018, Nov 29: Capture One v12
I don't think I'm breaking any state secrets to guesstimate that late in 2019 you should expect version 13, and that September or October of 2019 is not a good time to upgrade to version 12.
A final alternative is the monthly subscription which comes with all updates as long as you're subscribed. I personally dislike the ethos of renting software, but even I would acknowledge that eliminating "I just purchased X days ago and now there is a new version and your grace period is only Y" is one of the better attributes of the subscription model.
Last edited:
pegelli
Well-known member
I agree with you on the 30 day rule, in my opinion it's too harsh and unfriendly to the customer. They could at least have a 2/3 off 60 day and 1/3 off 90 day upgrade deal or something of that kind to make it a bit less digital.
Let me get on my soapbox, whatever you use in C1 (sessions or catalogs) my advice is to make your "real working" catalog in Lightroom. The amount of options, user friendlyness and sturdyness is far ahead of anything in C1. Either do that or use another external database program to catalog all your shots but don't rely on just C1 for that. Been there, tried that and ran into a wall.
You missed my point. I knew about the upgrade cycle and that a new version was likely to come out shortly. That was a major reason why I decided NOT to upgrade to v. 11 and wait for v. 12. However, Phase One in practical terms forced me to upgrade, because I could no longer open my Catalog. This was not a free trial. There is NO WARNING about what happens to your Catalog when you use the supposedly free trial for 30 days, or an explanation that there are steps that you can and will need to take to revert to an earlier version of C1 if you decide not to purchase the new version after the free trial expires. I shouldn't need to get an explanation from Doug Peterson, the Head of R&D at Digital Transitions, on how to get out of purgatory without being forced into paying for the upgrade.
As for implying that it's my fault for not using Sessions, all I can say is.. I am speechless. That's the sort of customer friendly approach I have come to expect from Phase One.
While the policy of no free upgrade in my case where I was just outside the 30-day window would be annoying by itself, what I am very angry about is that I was basically forced to buy the v. 11 upgrade when I very reasonably understood that I had a free trial period. I didn't. If there was enough money involved here, the Federal Trade Commission would take Phase One to the woodshed over something like this.
I was not aware that I had a backup that I could still use with v. 10. There is no explanation from Phase One as to what you have to do to keep working with a prior version of C1 if you use the free trail copy of v. 12 and then decide NOT to purchase it.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
I could imagine a number of ways that Phase One could make it more obvious how to proceed, beyond the message that v11 gave you that said a backup was being made. For example, a message when you try to open a catalog that is made in a newer version could include an addendum like "You may be able to restore a backup that was made when it was upgraded" or a link to a help article.
I do wish you would have sought help so we could have helped you. A single phone call to Phase One, a (good) Phase One dealer, a support case at phaseone.com, or a post to this forum would have very quickly told you how to restore the backup. As would a google search for "Downgrade Capture One Catalog" or "Open Catalog in an earlier version of Capture One".
You're saying Phase One forced you to upgrade, when in fact Capture One automatically backs up your catalog when you upgrade it to a new version specifically so that you are NOT forced to permanently upgrade your C1 version to continue to use that catalog.
It sounds like you're very frustrated and taking it out on me. I honestly can't imagine how you come to view my post in such a negative light, as you've been on the forum long enough that I'd think you'd read my post with more positivity.
For clarity, I'm absolutely not saying anything is your fault for not using sessions. I don't blame you at all. I only regret you had asked for help so we could have helped you!
When I said "As an aside," I meant that what followed wasn't specifically directed at you or this situation. In fact using sessions would not have resolved this issue; with EITHER a session or catalog workflow you need to restore the automatically-used-backup in case you want to return to a previous version of C1. I just take any chance I can to put out the PSA that catalogs are often a user's default choice (more out of momentum than active choice), and it is often, in our opinion, not the best choice.
This is also a really good time to, as a PSA and not necessarily directed specifically at you, remind everyone to take stock of their current backup routine (separate from whatever backup tools the OS or software you are using create). There are a dozen reasons why you might, at some point, need to restore a backup of your critical digital files: Disk failure, natural disaster, corruption by the OS, corruption by software, user error (e.g. accidental deletion or overwriting). Given a long enough time period, having one copy of your work is the same as having zero copies of your work. A lot of folks in California likely tragically learned that the hard way a few weeks ago in the fires.
Last edited:
Did you contact Phase One prior to giving in and paying their “ransom”?
And have you attempted to obtain a refund?
Last edited:
Mexecutioner
Well-known member
FWIW I am really enjoying this new version. The luminosity masks and the radial gradient are very useful to me. So far I've found nothing to complain about except that I noticed that the Light Control tool (Profoto plugin) does not show up any more and can't be re-added as a tool. Maybe and updated plugin from Profoto is in the works.
pegelli
Well-known member
I think Doug's story that he is sorry that Howard didn't seek help is a bit of a weak cop-out. I think the built in little warning when starting the free trial for the first time is just far below standard for such a company and rolling back should have been made much more easy and intuitive without the need for calling/emailing for help.
The fact they don't do it is for me a sign they expect all customers to ugrade, but I think that is very much against the notion of the "free 30 day trial". A genuine "free trial" basically should not touch any other programs or systems on your computer to protect for when you decide to end the trial without a purchase of the new version. I find the fact you can't easily roll back or just simply deinstall the free trial is simply the wrong approach.
The fact they don't do it is for me a sign they expect all customers to ugrade, but I think that is very much against the notion of the "free 30 day trial". A genuine "free trial" basically should not touch any other programs or systems on your computer to protect for when you decide to end the trial without a purchase of the new version. I find the fact you can't easily roll back or just simply deinstall the free trial is simply the wrong approach.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Note that I don't work for Phase One. I don't determine what messages are displayed. I agree it could be more intuitive to roll back a catalog. I say I wish he had sought help, so that we (DT, P1, or the forum) could have helped him avoid the annoyance that the lack of such a more-clear-message caused.
"Not touch anything" on the system would mean, in practical terms that would mean they would need to duplicate any catalog you go to open. That could easily mean an hour or two and a ton of redundant disk space used up (if it's even free). I don't see that as a good option.
Instead C1 stores a backup of your cat file, which is the only thing effected by the upgrade. To rollback this file takes five seconds (open package; delete the new cat file, rename the backup file). I agree this process could be more explicitly stated inside the software (as I said earlier).
pegelli
Well-known member
I never said you worked for PhaseOne, I just said that I found your argument weak, irrespective who you work for.
This is not logical. If there are a lot of catalogs a lot of redundant backups of the previous version are created, which is a very similar waste of space and resources as you are saying by not creating separate new version catalogs. So doing it right doesn't waste any more space than doing it like C1 is doing it now. Secondly if you have a lot of catalogs rolling back from the free trial will not be a 5 second job. As an aside, I really doubt that for many people this is a 5 second job, even for only 1 catalog.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
You may not realize it, or it may not have been intended, but the above comes across as quite rude. If you were at a house party would you say this to another guest?
I could have been more precise with my terminology.
The "catalog" can be very large and include the previews and sometimes the raw files. Duplicating it (to avoid making any change to the existing copy) would be time consuming and eat up a lot of disk space.
The "cocatalogdb" file (I called it a "cat file") is much much smaller and is located within the "catalog".
pegelli
Well-known member
Well, the fact you put words in my mouth I never said I find rude, which triggered my reaction. I'm sure this discussion would go better when we would meet face-to-face, but unfortunately that is a bit unpractical. If I used the wrong words pls. accept my apology.
Maybe better to continue the technical discussion in the second part of my post.
pegelli
Well-known member
Why not create a "cocatalogdb_vX"file in the catalog that vX calls upon and let the vX-1 version (which is the paid up and permanent version until the new version is actually bought) still use the original file. Or some other similar method. Now you can't even run your old version during the free trial (might be useful if you want to compare). I don't think it's right to prohibit the use of the version you actually paid for during the trial of the new version.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Fair enough; the written word often comes across in a less than ideal way. Kindly accept my apology as well, if I put words in your mouth you did not intend.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
I suspect there is a good technical explanation relating to wanting the catalog to not ping-pong between versions and possibly cause corruption.
However, I don't know that for sure as modern database programming (beyond the literal 101 class for it in college) is well beyond me.
pegelli
Well-known member
I'm also not a specialist in databases but I would urge Phase1 to find a way to make a "free trial" a real one, and not a hidden quasi purchase that if you want to get out (or use your previous version during the trial) you are committed to several manual steps outside C1.
Sorry to again mirror with Lightroom, there any previous version just calls its own catalog and you can without problem use multiple versions of the program on the same computer. I really like some of the raw renderings I can get from C1, and use the program when I need it but the database attributes (and now this issue) just keep me with Lightroom as my main tool and only use v10 for some selected images.