Phase One IQ4 Firmware Update Feature Wish List

[tashley]

I hear your frustration, and can say definitively that P1 understands each of these issues needs to be addressed.

I hope (and fully expect) that we can look back on this in a couple months and see that all your (very reasonable) concerns have been addressed; the lower-hanging fruit, hopefully sooner.

Re "big cities" - I get that totally. Obviously the Head of R+D for P1 cannot make it to all the small cities in the world (he already spends a good fraction of his year on the road) but this is the idea of having dealers that are "on the ground" as they say. We have trips/events planned in NYC, LA, Philly, Baltimore, DC, Jupiter, Boston, San Diego, San Fran, Seattle, Portland, Denver, and Phoenix, and that's just in the next four months) – most are on our Events Calendar and the rest will be soon. We're also always open to hearing from someone that they'd like to have an event in their city regardless of its size, especially if they have a space to offer to host us. We have a standing offer to do a C1 Masters class anywhere in the country, provided there are five people ready to sign up for it.

You are a saint, Doug - worth your weight in gold to Phase and to everyone who has you as their dealer.

 

[dougpeterson]

You are a saint, Doug - worth your weight in gold to Phase and to everyone who has you as their dealer.

Excellent justification for having gained a few pounds over the last year. More weight = more gold!

 

[earburner]

Even if you had a 12 pin cable for your alpa there is no option to set zero latency on the shutter...

on a slightly funnier note... if you enable jpg on the sd card, it only saves the jpg files at 1600 x 1200 with no other options.. lol


I feel like a software beta tester...


A few things I want in new firmware..

Network
Manual ip config options on wifi and lan
smb/nfs storage options over network

Jpg sd size options

 

[dougpeterson]

Even if you had a 12 pin cable for your alpa there is no option to set zero latency on the shutter...

Correct. Both a new cable and new firmware are needed. Both are coming soon.

 

[Eric Mansour]

Some quick observations from a walkaround street shooting with ES and a Tech Cam. Pretty fun, actually - and totally silent. Outside for maybe 1-1.5 hrs.

- ES has issues with flicker on certain lights, does this have to do with 60hz vs 50hz in DK? It manifests as rolling patches of darkness in the areas lit by that light. Those who work in motion will be quite familiar with the look.

- Would be nice to have Programmable back buttons to trigger the ES during live view, the two others could change ISO and shutter.

- Also would be nice to have a trigger that I can route around the tech cam so I can fire while holding with 1 hand, or one I can attach to the grip. I'd like to be able to take sneaky shots, so something more ergonomic would be appreciated.

- Confirmed that battery life is abysmal. Shot maybe 200 shots of IIQ14 and blew through 2 batteries (the ones that came with the cam). Not too much live view either, just to check focus here and there.

- The "rolling shutter" effect is pronounced, I didn't do any scientific testing, but it appeared to have less of an effect when switching to IIQ14 vs 16. I wonder what phase can do to minimize this.

- To Narikin's issues with moving people and rolling shutter - not sure how close you get your people to the lens - I'll agree, subject closer to the distortion of the lens + rolling shutter distortion is pretty gross. At a decent distance, it wasn't horrible. I'd still turn the shots in.

- Had no fewer than 2 shut downs, and the live view wouldn't trigger at 3 or more times. Once the Capture One logo just popped up on screen and I had to power cycle. Afterwards, I lost the last 10 minutes of photos. They disappeared from card. This was preceded by a large amount of black frames being recorded to card as well.

- I like the little zipper case the back comes in

- Where can I get a good screen protector for the back?

 

[Paul2660]

How pronounced is the ES rolling shutter?, only an issue on larger moving subjects, people, cars, etc. or do you see it also on trees, limbs leaves etc. On the IQ3, the rolling shutter effect for landscape work, even in slower exposures was not an issue, and I would appreciate your feedback. Supposedly, the ES on the IQ4 is "faster" than the IQ3, not sure what the differences in latency are however.

Paul C

 

[narikin]

Just to add - they need to put back the Beep audio signal. It's missing from Firmware 1.0.
I need and miss it!

Add that to the list.

 

[Eric Mansour]

The ES rolling shutter in these street shots is definitely dependent on the locomotion of the object. Passing cars will DEFINITELY look distorted - cartoony even. I was shooting anywhere between 1/400s - 1/1000s, so there may be a difference at lower shutter speeds. Tree limbs, leaves, and other organic shapes wouldn't really see problems in my estimation. The people I shot didn't exhibit too many of the negative symptoms of the rolling shutter. In fast moving, highly geometric objects, I'm sure you'd notice issues with the linework; but in the softer subjects, I don't think you'll be losing any sleep.

-------

The more pressing issue, and this is a HUGE problem - is an error in the back which is either deleting or not saving images that you've already shot. This happened to me while shooting both today and yesterday, which I mentioned in yesterday's post. To give you an idea of the conditions in which this occurred.

Back mounted on a tech cam, shooting handheld pressing the ES button. ISO 1000, 1/500s. 64gb XQD card, no SD card in.
Today - I spent about 15 minutes shooting a subject, and when I was walking away, the C1 symbol popped up on the still turned on back, just as it does during startup. Afterwards, screen goes black, but does operate normally. You can see the shots you've just shot, however. The back gives no indication that it is processing or saving photos. Once you turn off the back, the last (X) amount of shots (in my case 25 or 30) will no longer be on the card.

The exact same thing happened to me yesterday. 10 minutes of shooting lost. I'm sure there was a winner in there too.

This issue actually scares me.

How pronounced is the ES rolling shutter?, only an issue on larger moving subjects, people, cars, etc. or do you see it also on trees, limbs leaves etc. On the IQ3, the rolling shutter effect for landscape work, even in slower exposures was not an issue, and I would appreciate your feedback. Supposedly, the ES on the IQ4 is "faster" than the IQ3, not sure what the differences in latency are however.

Paul C

 

[vjbelle]

WOW.... I'm giving my 3100 a big hug:thumbup: and waiting till the dust settles on the 4150. No need to rush for me.....

Victor

 

[mpsa]

I would like a back that works reliably. That would be a good starting point.

I’m loving the image quality, but tech cam users beware of purple fringing (trees against sky etc) which can’t be fully corrected.

I’ve had numerous issues with live view freezing, and sometimes pixelating to the extent that it is unusable (requires a reboot) - this is in decent light. The double tap does not work reliably. Sometimes it’s great, sometimes it stops working. The batteries sometimes don’t work if less than half charged. When the dark frame capture is turned on, sometimes the image is corrupted. I do wonder what’s going on at P1. Quite concerning - what is going on behind the scenes at P1?

 

[Eric Mansour]

Most of the issues I’ve encountered are inconveniences, like you mention. Live view glitching, batteries draining or not working (I had one battery that drained to 8% in 15 minutes, and one that doesn’t seat properly so the back won’t turn on(probably not 150 issues).

However, the photos not being saved/being deleted glitch, is the first one that gives me pause. Moments can’t be repeated. Today it was only an inconvenience because I had to go back out in the rain to get the shots again down the street. I don’t want to hesitate to bring this to a job or travel with it.

I hope it can be sorted.

 

[Eric Mansour]

To update on handheld ES - I did a few more impromptu comparisons of IIQ14 and 16EX. The readout time on the 16EX is significant, I’ll time it today, but more often than not I got some insane distortion during readout. 14, is totally usable, in my opinion. If you don’t need the extra latitude of the 16EX files, the shortened readout time lessens the likelihood of distortion by your hand and by the subject - and makes handheld pretty fun with a tech cam. More frames per second too.

 

[Paul2660]

Wow, I did not realize you were attempting to hand hold the back with ES. I can't begin to hand hold the 3100 ES even at 1/500, (with XF) just too much movement or distortion or what not. I am always on tripod with ES.

Curious if you see same amounts of distortion with the 16 bit ES files on a tripod?

Agreed, the disappearing images, is a big concern, and especially the way they are disappearing.

Paul C

 

[dougpeterson]

New firmware (1.01) has been posted. DT will investigate and test immediately. I expect it will be only the low-hanging fruit (i.e. bugs) but will report soon.

Do do not miss the important note in the PDF:
Please do not interrupt the updating process. Updating can take more than 10 minutes, during this time the back will seem inactive, but interferring with this process can be fatal, and unrecoverable. If updating fails, the digital back have to go back to service. After update, the system will reboot and display a dialog on the XF Screen and/or the IQ4 Screen stating that “Firmware Verified!”

That is not unusual for firmware, but it never hurts reminding people not to stop a firmware update in the middle.

 

[Eric Mansour]

Oh yeah, street shooting isn’t necessarily my forte, but the tech cam with ES is reminiscent of being a Speedgraphic newsman. Except it’s silent. I’m walking around with a 5.6 or 8 and guessing distance, pointing and pressing the shutter on the back. I’ve shot as low as 1/125 and had fine results, happy to share some files privately if you’re curious. Perfection isn’t the goal of these shots, but as long as you don’t have drastic xyz axis movements during readout, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I think 16EX files on a tripod with ES will be totally fine for landscape. I believe Doug says it’s a pixel line by pixel line readout, and if you consider how relatively small the moving parts of a landscape shot are (fluttering leaves), the rolling shutter distortion you’re due to encounter will likely be minimal. Caveat being, I haven’t shot that way yet.

Wow, I did not realize you were attempting to hand hold the back with ES. I can't begin to hand hold the 3100 ES even at 1/500, (with XF) just too much movement or distortion or what not. I am always on tripod with ES.

Curious if you see same amounts of distortion with the 16 bit ES files on a tripod?

Agreed, the disappearing images, is a big concern, and especially the way they are disappearing.

Paul C

 

[narikin]

ES needs to be 14bit if you want to avoid rolling shutter in a situation like this. A 16bit file takes much longer to 'read' hence slower scan speed and more ES rolling shutter. Pretty obvious once you think about it.

Added to which: if you are going above base ISO (lets say 100iso) then it's moot to use 16bit - may as well be 14bit. So if you are shooting at 200iso, or certainly 400iso, then it's pointless to save it in highest bit formats.

 

[dolevy]

ES needs to be 14bit if you want to avoid rolling shutter in a situation like this. A 16bit file takes much longer to 'read' hence slower scan speed and more ES rolling shutter. Pretty obvious once you think about it.

Added to which: if you are going above base ISO (lets say 100iso) then it's moot to use 16bit - may as well be 14bit. So if you are shooting at 200iso, or certainly 400iso, then it's pointless to save it in highest bit formats.

Interesting - why is that?

 

[narikin]

Interesting - why is that?

It's been discussed here before. I'm traveling, but a search should turn up some threads here or in LuLa MF forum.

 

[drunkenspyder]

It's been discussed here before. I'm traveling, but a search should turn up some threads here or in LuLa MF forum.

It's not super easy to find because of terms commonality, but here is a LuLa thread that summarizes the reasons. OTOH, because I shoot at 35 or 50 as much as possible, and am not usually shooting quickly moving subjects, I don't worry about ES, especially on my tech camera, and I am loathe to give up any info whatsoever to save a few mb of almost free storage space. Easier to set it for max than worry about what it's set for as one shoots. YMMV.

 

[shuttermax]

It's been discussed here before. I'm traveling, but a search should turn up some threads here or in LuLa MF forum.

The readout speed is a function of the sensor. Faster readout induces more noise which affects all native sensor ISO (gain) levels. The difference is that with the fast readout you already start with less than 14 bit dynamic range at base ISO. When I measured the dynamic range of the H6D-100c by analyzing black frames in RawDigger I got the following data points:
ISO 64 and 100 (16 bit): 14.45 bit; ISO 64 and 100 (14 bit): 13.90 bit;
ISO 200 (16 bit): 13.84 bit; ISO 200 (14 bit): 13.43 bit;
ISO 400 (16 bit): 13.02 bit; ISO 400 (14 bit): 12.73 bit;
ISO 800 (16 bit): 12.13 bit; ISO 800 (14 bit): 11.92 bit;
ISO 1600 (16 bit): 11.19 bit; ISO 1600 (14 bit): 11.04 bit;
ISO 3200 (16 bit): 10.29 bit; ISO 3200 (14 bit): 10.19 bit
Anything over ISO 3200 is just a software ISO offset with this 101 MP sensor.

At higher ISOs the difference between long read-out (16 bit) and short read-out (14 bit) decreases because the gain noise effect increases.

How long are the sensor read-out times for the different file formats on the IQ4 150?