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Astrophotography - 101: How to get started.
- Thread starter dave.gt
- Start date
Don Libby
Well-known member
Been loosing sleep the past week photographing the milky way both her in Tucson as well as in the Salton Sea.
I've been waiting for a second weight to arrive so I can properly mount and balance by GFX 50s and GF250. We still have dark skies and will make my first attempt tonight at deep space.
I've been waiting for a second weight to arrive so I can properly mount and balance by GFX 50s and GF250. We still have dark skies and will make my first attempt tonight at deep space.
dave.gt
Well-known member
Don,
You guys continue to inspire me to try LA (Landscape Photography) and I appreciate your beautiful work. I have not given up although light pollution, poor location, rare opportunities, logistics and stress have all conspired against my best efforts.
Yesterday, I crashed but awoke to see the clouds clearing ever so slightly. I thought it might be fun to try something different.
I left my own Optron in my Leica Cave... and opted for... 0-15 second exposures with my tiny Leica X1 on my huge Gitzo tripod. :ROTFL: I simply wanted to see if the tiny lens opening, wide-open, would gather enough light to see the Milky Way, especially in my backyard with all the light pollution.
As darkness set in around 9:30pm, I started playing with the X1 grabbing shots when I could. Too many clouds! But I kept shooting for over two hours and I did manage to capture a glimpse of Jupiter and the Milky Way but I had to stop because of heavy clouds moving in.
The results were encouraging, and I was surprised to actually get an image that showed potential with an APS-C sensor.
Embarrassingly not up to a quality image yet, but it was fun!
PS: It was liberating to use a tiny camera with a footprint the size of my little iPhone5.
Now if I can only find a fast wide lens for the H5....
Last edited:
My first attempt at astrophotography. The best view of the Milky Way was behind me but alas Crater Lake was in front of me. Focusing was a bit dicey but not bad considering how much wine I had over dinner!
Starry night, Crater Lake, Oregon
X1D | XCD45 | f/3.5 | 16 sec | ISO6400 | two-image stitch
John
Starry night, Crater Lake, Oregon
X1D | XCD45 | f/3.5 | 16 sec | ISO6400 | two-image stitch
John
Greg Haag
Well-known member
I am not, not quite sure how to, but I am so glad you refreshed this thread Dave! One of my photography goals for 2020 is to learn more about this topic.2020 Christmas Star tonight! First time in 800 years.
Is anyone planning on shooting this event?
glennedens
Active member
If the clouds cooperate I will give it a try this evening, last night I got clouded out.
glennedens
Active member
This will be a challenging event to photograph:
I use Skysafari for charts and planning, although there are a lot of good planetarium programs including the free Stellarium. I've use Lynkeos for planetary image stacking (since I'm Mac OS X) although I also use Pixinsight if I am gong for the best quality (not for the feint of heart).
Keeping my fingers crossed that the H2O nebula dissipates.
Kind regards, Glenn
- Jupiter is brighter than Saturn so exposure will be tricky - most of the best images so far have been composites with separate exposures for Jupiter and Saturn - it can definitely be shot in one image though.
- Immediately after sunset they will be low in the Southwest, I am at 35.5 degrees latitude and at sunset Jupiter and Saturn will be about 21 degrees above the horizon at a bearing of about 221 degrees (southwest) - the sky will be bright still and visually you likely will not yet see any moons - although a photograph will likely capture a few moons.
- At nautical dusk (5:55pm MST here) they will be about 13 degrees altitude - that will likely be the best window for a photograph although you will be shooting through a lot of atmosphere - depending on your local conditions you might see the planets drop in and out of clarity - a good technique is to take lots of images, sort through them and 'stack' the sharpest images by hand or by using specialized software.
- Exposure is hard to suggest since it varies depending on your optical train (telescope or lens, flattener, barlow, etc.) - I'll be using a 4" refractor, a Tele Vue NP101 telescope (not the best choice since its designed for wide-field views) which is natively 540mm at F/5.4, adding a Tele Vue Powermate 2x (essentially a barlow) which will result in roughly 1080mm at F/11 - using an Fuji XT-3 I'll start with ISO 1600 and 1/2 sec and work up - you want the shortest exposure time.
- Eyepiece projection would be a better approach, however I don't have all the right tubes and extenders.
I use Skysafari for charts and planning, although there are a lot of good planetarium programs including the free Stellarium. I've use Lynkeos for planetary image stacking (since I'm Mac OS X) although I also use Pixinsight if I am gong for the best quality (not for the feint of heart).
Keeping my fingers crossed that the H2O nebula dissipates.
Kind regards, Glenn
glennedens
Active member
Ai_Print, It's all rather 2D isn't it
Craig Stocks
Well-known member
My take on the Jupiter / Saturn conjunction. I normally use my IQ4150 with a telescope but in this case I used a Sony a7r2. In this case the camera sensor size doesn't really matter because the telescope is 1900mm focal length no matter what camera is attached, and this is a center crop from the frame.
ImageDetailStudio
New member
Very Nice!
Greg Haag
Well-known member
This is a great thread that I have spent the past couple days working my way thru, it provides lots of information, thank you for starting it Dave! I consider myself to be reasonably adept at technical stuff, but I find this to be a bit overwhelming to sort thru. It seems like the Pentax K1 provides the simplest way to enter Astrophotography, especially things like landscapes with the Milky Way. All the way up to the impressive but much more complex setups that Craig and Glenn have that seem to have a much steeper learning curve. For those of you who may have gone down this road already, what did you decide to do, is there something you wish you would have done differently? As a point of information, my main interest is in deep sky images. Is this like tripods, buy the best you can afford and buy once? I feel a bit stuck on how I should proceed. Also, it seems like finding things in stock may be an issue.
Thanks,
Greg
In case it is important, this is a map of the light pollution of where I live and the areas within about a 2 1/2 drive.
Thanks,
Greg
In case it is important, this is a map of the light pollution of where I live and the areas within about a 2 1/2 drive.
dave.gt
Well-known member
Odd, isn’t it? Something invisible on this planet can put things on hold for two years, and I am just now re-visiting most interesting thread.
Greg, I am excited that your interest is kindled and all you need is more wood on the fire!Yay!!!
I have not given up myself, but I did learn a lot! One thing that stands out, the deeper one goes the more technically complex and expensive it gets!!! That first part trips me up right off the bat, LOL…
The second part can be solved with a lottery ticket. Or maybe I could sell a body part or something?
The real killer for me is location/logistics. It can be fun and I will definitely give it another try one day but in a specific/limited manner.
I particularly like some automotive light-painting with the Milky Way in the background! There are unlimited opportunities!
Please keep us updated on your work!!!
Greg, I am excited that your interest is kindled and all you need is more wood on the fire!
Yay!!!I have not given up myself, but I did learn a lot! One thing that stands out, the deeper one goes the more technically complex and expensive it gets!!! That first part trips me up right off the bat, LOL…
The second part can be solved with a lottery ticket. Or maybe I could sell a body part or something?
The real killer for me is location/logistics. It can be fun and I will definitely give it another try one day but in a specific/limited manner.
I particularly like some automotive light-painting with the Milky Way in the background! There are unlimited opportunities!
Please keep us updated on your work!!!
Craig Stocks
Well-known member
Deep sky is very different from wide angle Milky Way. As in with all things photographic the more you spend the better equipment you can get, and it can make a difference. Overall I'd rate the importance of things like this
#1 - Post processing. Astrophotography depends on collecting lots of data and combining it Photoshop or dedicated astro programs like PixInsight.
#2 - Computer control and autoguiding. I highly recommend the ASI Air for controlling the mount and autoguider but if you want full remote operation you'll need a full featured computer like an Intil NUC. You will also end up wanting a dedicated astronomy camera since it will work seamlessly with the computer. The computer also knows how to use an astro camera and can locate the targets for you, that's important since you wanting to photograph things you can't see. Unfortunately a medium format camera isn't supported so you won't get those advantages.
#3 - The mount. A good solid mount with accurate tracking will make a huge difference. I'd start with something like the SkyWatcher EQ6-R Pro or similar. The Software Bisque Paramount MY-T would also be a good choice but there are lots of choices.
#4 - The camera. Most deep sky objects are emission nebulae (meaning they glow and give off their own light) and are best imaged using narrowband filters and a monochrome dedicated camera so you don't have the Bayer filter array in the way sucking up light and detail. I started out using my XF/IQ4150 but eventually tired of spending time and money trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and switched to an astro camera.
#6 - Telescope. You probably want a good "wide field" refractor. There are good ones in the 60 to 120 mm aperture range (300 to 600mm focal length) and can be had for anywhere from $800 to $8000. With good autoguiding and post processing you may have trouble telling the difference in the finished image.
#7 - Narrowband filters. You can use them with a DSLR but you end up fighting the color filter array and need really long exposures - and end up only recording data on one color channel. Narrowband filters generally cut through light pollution and even moonlight, not 100% but quite a bit. If you're shooting with a color camera it's a lot harder to deal with light pollution. There are some dual and triple narrowband filters for use with a color camera and they do work OK. Very little is imaged without any filters, generally either light pollution filters on a color camera narrowband filters on a monochrome camera.
Obviously a dark sky is a key ingredient, the darker the better.
The other big ingredient is time. A good image of most deep sky targets will typically need 5 to 20 hours of exposure time spread across the various filters. That's one of the reasons remote imaging is so popular, you can sit in the comfort of your own home and remotely control a telescope 100 feet or 1000 miles away under a dark sky. You can see more discussion about that at https://utahdesertremote.com/the-value-of-a-dark-sky/.
My 2 cents worth.
#1 - Post processing. Astrophotography depends on collecting lots of data and combining it Photoshop or dedicated astro programs like PixInsight.
#2 - Computer control and autoguiding. I highly recommend the ASI Air for controlling the mount and autoguider but if you want full remote operation you'll need a full featured computer like an Intil NUC. You will also end up wanting a dedicated astronomy camera since it will work seamlessly with the computer. The computer also knows how to use an astro camera and can locate the targets for you, that's important since you wanting to photograph things you can't see. Unfortunately a medium format camera isn't supported so you won't get those advantages.
#3 - The mount. A good solid mount with accurate tracking will make a huge difference. I'd start with something like the SkyWatcher EQ6-R Pro or similar. The Software Bisque Paramount MY-T would also be a good choice but there are lots of choices.
#4 - The camera. Most deep sky objects are emission nebulae (meaning they glow and give off their own light) and are best imaged using narrowband filters and a monochrome dedicated camera so you don't have the Bayer filter array in the way sucking up light and detail. I started out using my XF/IQ4150 but eventually tired of spending time and money trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and switched to an astro camera.
#6 - Telescope. You probably want a good "wide field" refractor. There are good ones in the 60 to 120 mm aperture range (300 to 600mm focal length) and can be had for anywhere from $800 to $8000. With good autoguiding and post processing you may have trouble telling the difference in the finished image.
#7 - Narrowband filters. You can use them with a DSLR but you end up fighting the color filter array and need really long exposures - and end up only recording data on one color channel. Narrowband filters generally cut through light pollution and even moonlight, not 100% but quite a bit. If you're shooting with a color camera it's a lot harder to deal with light pollution. There are some dual and triple narrowband filters for use with a color camera and they do work OK. Very little is imaged without any filters, generally either light pollution filters on a color camera narrowband filters on a monochrome camera.
Obviously a dark sky is a key ingredient, the darker the better.
The other big ingredient is time. A good image of most deep sky targets will typically need 5 to 20 hours of exposure time spread across the various filters. That's one of the reasons remote imaging is so popular, you can sit in the comfort of your own home and remotely control a telescope 100 feet or 1000 miles away under a dark sky. You can see more discussion about that at https://utahdesertremote.com/the-value-of-a-dark-sky/.
My 2 cents worth.
Greg Haag
Well-known member
Thank you Craig, that is very helpful, certainly a lot to consider before going down this path!
glennedens
Active member
Craig's advice is spot on, the only change in the order I'd make is to put the mount first, it is going to be your path to fun or frustration - once you get past Milky Way shots you are going to need a driven mount that will counteract the Earth's rotation (OTOH there is some good work that has been created on the brighter objects with a ILC/DSLR, tripod and software stacking. For Deep Sky objects you really want a driven mount, probably with Goto. Roland Christensen of Astro-Physics says the three most important things in astroimaging are the mount, then the mount, then the mount....
Start with a short refractor, say 60-100mm aperture (objective size) and 300-600mm focal ratio - so that would put you somewhere between F4-F7, here faster is better since it can have a dramatic effect on exposure time). On the simple end of a mount is a star tracker - like the Skywatcher Star Adventurer and a solid tripod. In the middle is a German Equatorial Mount (GEM) something like the EQ6R as mentioned by Craig. I've had okay luck with a Celestron AVX, better luck with a Vixen SXD2 and the best of all luck with my Astro-Physics Mach2 (big bucks though). Software Bisque makes great mounts (My-T) and when I lived in Boulder I used to hang out with the Bisque clan (they were in Golden, CO).
Another approach to the mount is both easy and complex (at the same time), what is called a driven alt-az mount, this avoids polar alignment (still needs to be aligned on typically two stars) BUT at the expense of something called field rotation (everything in the view spins over time) so you need to do special processing to register (align) the images, stack them and your images will essentially be cropped. There are solutions to this such as the Track The Stars Panther TTS-160 mount which rotates the entire camera and telescope tube - it works really well, and it is a blast to take on camping trips but it is a different kind of complexity. It packs down tiny so fits in the camper van easily. I'll try and find some examples to post, I never seem to have good luck posting images here
The next decision is are you going to do One Shot Color or Monochrome?
On the camera front you can use a DSLR or an ILC, I did a lot of work with a Fuji XT-2 and XT-3, and don't forget the Nikon D810a or the Canon modified equivalent, this is all called one shot color since you are shooting a color image (the CFA impacts exposure and you have to limit exposure time based on sky condition, I found 30-45 seconds worked fine, take a lot of images, use software to register (align) and then stack them. The next step up, as Craig suggests, is a monochrome camera, and better yet one that is cooled electronically. Vendors include SBIG (who kinda started it all), FLI, ATIK, ZWO, QHYCCD, QSI, and more I can't remember right now. SBIG and FLI the premium brands, however its getting really complex with the move from CCD to CMOS (you should hear the arguments in the astro circles, it puts the photographers to shame
ZWO deserves special mention since they also make a device Craig referenced - called the ASIAir, which is a tiny computer (Raspberry Pi) designed specifically for astronomy and controlled by your iPad - it is all in one and has become quite capable, it can help with polar alignment, focusing, guiding (another whole subject), taking images, running the filter wheel (if you are doing monochrome you will want a filter wheel and filters), etc.. The ASIAir is a fantastic device, however it only supports ZWO cameras, ZWO guide cameras, ZWO focus motors and ZWO filter wheels, however it is the quickest path to astroimaging with a dedicated astro camera. Highly recommended especially to get started. I still use it all the time unless I'm trying to collect exposure time for a group project - then the big guns get deployed.
One thing with the ASIAir and iPad that is really fun is to use live stacking and registration for sharing the night sky with a group, it is awe inspiring to see the image unfold as more images are stacked - I will usually have another telescope setup so folks can try to see the same thing with their own eyes - something I've never tired of!
A ZWO cooled monochrome micro4/3 or APS-c sized imager can be had used for $600 or so and up to the ZWO ASI6200mm for $5K, the latter being 60 megapixel full-frame. I always recommend either micro4/3 or APS-c to get started, full-frame increases the cost of everything like filters and telescopes that can cover full-frame can get really, really expensive. So a ZWO ASI1600mm (monochrome) or a ZWO ASI294MC (color) are incredible entry points and will keep you busy for years and years.
So lets say you decide monochrome, then you need a filter wheel and filters - ah and yet another decision - broadband (LRGB) or narrowband (SHO)? Broadband takes exposures through four filters, clear (Luminance), red, green and blue and you composite the images in post to make a color image. Exposure times are "relatively" short BUT you need a relatively dark site to do good work. Narrowband takes three or four images, clear (Luminance), Sodium2, Hydrogen Alpha and Oxygen3 - these filters have very narrow passbands and thus exposures get long quick, however you can image from the middle of a big city. Ray Gralak and Robert Gendler first introduced me to narrowband imaging long ago, look up their work - Ray used to image from his driveway under street lamps in urban San Jose.
Get a seven position filter wheel, since if you "get hooked" you can have LRGBSHO filters all loaded and ready to go - and yes they are expensive, so another reason to keep sensor size to micro4/3 or APS-c, cost goes up geometrically
Although it is a tough decision, I'd probably suggest starting with a one shot color (ZWO ASI294mc) and a light pollution filter maybe? I'd start with a 80-90mm refractor, you really want to stay with an Apochromatic (either a doublet or a triplet). Mount wise gets harder, I never had a lot of luck or fun with the star trackers, however many people (like Don) have had good luck. I'd go for a GEM and just learn how to polar align, the ASIAir can make it simpler. I'd go with the ASIAir and an iPad. I'd get either a Bahtinov mask for manual focusing or a ZWO EAF focus motor (this can be a pain to get mounted properly depending on your telescope). So mount wise I'd spend as much as you can, so either used or new if you can - the trade off is stability versus weight versus cost. There are definitely bargains to be found, folks get into and out of the hobby on a regular basis. For many years my "compact" kit was a Vixen SXD2 mount with their tripod (today there are better choices), a Takahashi FSQ 85mm telescope and a variety of cameras including long ago a SBIG STL11000, SBIG 8300, later ZWO ASI294mc and later a ZWO ASI1600mm with 7 position filter wheel and an ASIAir using an iPad.
Cloudy Nights is a great website for classified, forums, opinions, etc......
Yes this can be a money pit and a time pit and a learning journey as well as training in patience! Dante loves astrophotographers even more than s/he loves medium format photographers!
Kind regards, Glenn
Start with a short refractor, say 60-100mm aperture (objective size) and 300-600mm focal ratio - so that would put you somewhere between F4-F7, here faster is better since it can have a dramatic effect on exposure time). On the simple end of a mount is a star tracker - like the Skywatcher Star Adventurer and a solid tripod. In the middle is a German Equatorial Mount (GEM) something like the EQ6R as mentioned by Craig. I've had okay luck with a Celestron AVX, better luck with a Vixen SXD2 and the best of all luck with my Astro-Physics Mach2 (big bucks though). Software Bisque makes great mounts (My-T) and when I lived in Boulder I used to hang out with the Bisque clan (they were in Golden, CO).
Another approach to the mount is both easy and complex (at the same time), what is called a driven alt-az mount, this avoids polar alignment (still needs to be aligned on typically two stars) BUT at the expense of something called field rotation (everything in the view spins over time) so you need to do special processing to register (align) the images, stack them and your images will essentially be cropped. There are solutions to this such as the Track The Stars Panther TTS-160 mount which rotates the entire camera and telescope tube - it works really well, and it is a blast to take on camping trips but it is a different kind of complexity. It packs down tiny so fits in the camper van easily. I'll try and find some examples to post, I never seem to have good luck posting images here
The next decision is are you going to do One Shot Color or Monochrome?
On the camera front you can use a DSLR or an ILC, I did a lot of work with a Fuji XT-2 and XT-3, and don't forget the Nikon D810a or the Canon modified equivalent, this is all called one shot color since you are shooting a color image (the CFA impacts exposure and you have to limit exposure time based on sky condition, I found 30-45 seconds worked fine, take a lot of images, use software to register (align) and then stack them. The next step up, as Craig suggests, is a monochrome camera, and better yet one that is cooled electronically. Vendors include SBIG (who kinda started it all), FLI, ATIK, ZWO, QHYCCD, QSI, and more I can't remember right now. SBIG and FLI the premium brands, however its getting really complex with the move from CCD to CMOS (you should hear the arguments in the astro circles, it puts the photographers to shame
ZWO deserves special mention since they also make a device Craig referenced - called the ASIAir, which is a tiny computer (Raspberry Pi) designed specifically for astronomy and controlled by your iPad - it is all in one and has become quite capable, it can help with polar alignment, focusing, guiding (another whole subject), taking images, running the filter wheel (if you are doing monochrome you will want a filter wheel and filters), etc.. The ASIAir is a fantastic device, however it only supports ZWO cameras, ZWO guide cameras, ZWO focus motors and ZWO filter wheels, however it is the quickest path to astroimaging with a dedicated astro camera. Highly recommended especially to get started. I still use it all the time unless I'm trying to collect exposure time for a group project - then the big guns get deployed.
One thing with the ASIAir and iPad that is really fun is to use live stacking and registration for sharing the night sky with a group, it is awe inspiring to see the image unfold as more images are stacked - I will usually have another telescope setup so folks can try to see the same thing with their own eyes - something I've never tired of!
A ZWO cooled monochrome micro4/3 or APS-c sized imager can be had used for $600 or so and up to the ZWO ASI6200mm for $5K, the latter being 60 megapixel full-frame. I always recommend either micro4/3 or APS-c to get started, full-frame increases the cost of everything like filters and telescopes that can cover full-frame can get really, really expensive. So a ZWO ASI1600mm (monochrome) or a ZWO ASI294MC (color) are incredible entry points and will keep you busy for years and years.
So lets say you decide monochrome, then you need a filter wheel and filters - ah and yet another decision - broadband (LRGB) or narrowband (SHO)? Broadband takes exposures through four filters, clear (Luminance), red, green and blue and you composite the images in post to make a color image. Exposure times are "relatively" short BUT you need a relatively dark site to do good work. Narrowband takes three or four images, clear (Luminance), Sodium2, Hydrogen Alpha and Oxygen3 - these filters have very narrow passbands and thus exposures get long quick, however you can image from the middle of a big city. Ray Gralak and Robert Gendler first introduced me to narrowband imaging long ago, look up their work - Ray used to image from his driveway under street lamps in urban San Jose.
Get a seven position filter wheel, since if you "get hooked" you can have LRGBSHO filters all loaded and ready to go - and yes they are expensive, so another reason to keep sensor size to micro4/3 or APS-c, cost goes up geometrically
Although it is a tough decision, I'd probably suggest starting with a one shot color (ZWO ASI294mc) and a light pollution filter maybe? I'd start with a 80-90mm refractor, you really want to stay with an Apochromatic (either a doublet or a triplet). Mount wise gets harder, I never had a lot of luck or fun with the star trackers, however many people (like Don) have had good luck. I'd go for a GEM and just learn how to polar align, the ASIAir can make it simpler. I'd go with the ASIAir and an iPad. I'd get either a Bahtinov mask for manual focusing or a ZWO EAF focus motor (this can be a pain to get mounted properly depending on your telescope). So mount wise I'd spend as much as you can, so either used or new if you can - the trade off is stability versus weight versus cost. There are definitely bargains to be found, folks get into and out of the hobby on a regular basis. For many years my "compact" kit was a Vixen SXD2 mount with their tripod (today there are better choices), a Takahashi FSQ 85mm telescope and a variety of cameras including long ago a SBIG STL11000, SBIG 8300, later ZWO ASI294mc and later a ZWO ASI1600mm with 7 position filter wheel and an ASIAir using an iPad.
Cloudy Nights is a great website for classified, forums, opinions, etc......
Yes this can be a money pit and a time pit and a learning journey as well as training in patience! Dante loves astrophotographers even more than s/he loves medium format photographers!
Kind regards, Glenn
Last edited:
Greg Haag
Well-known member
Glenn,Craig's advice is spot on, the only change in the order I'd make is to put the mount first, it is going to be your path to fun or frustration - once you get past Milky Way shots you are going to need a driven mount that will counteract the Earth's rotation (OTOH there is some good work that has been created on the brighter objects with a ILC/DSLR, tripod and software stacking. For Deep Sky objects you really want a driven mount, probably with Goto. Roland Christensen of Astro-Physics says the three most important things in astroimaging are the mount, then the mount, then the mount....
Start with a short refractor, say 60-100mm aperture (objective size) and 300-600mm focal ratio - so that would put you somewhere between F4-F7, here faster is better since it can have a dramatic effect on exposure time). On the simple end of a mount is a star tracker - like the Skywatcher Star Adventurer and a solid tripod. In the middle is a German Equatorial Mount (GEM) something like the EQ6R as mentioned by Craig. I've had okay luck with a Celestron AVX, better luck with a Vixen SXD2 and the best of all luck with my Astro-Physics Mach2 (big bucks though). Software Bisque makes great mounts (My-T) and when I lived in Boulder I used to hang out with the Bisque clan (they were in Golden, CO).
Another approach to the mount is both easy and complex (at the same time), what is called a driven alt-az mount, this avoids polar alignment (still needs to be aligned on typically two stars) BUT at the expense of something called field rotation (everything in the view spins over time) so you need to do special processing to register (align) the images, stack them and your images will essentially be cropped. There are solutions to this such as the Track The Stars Panther TTS-160 mount which rotates the entire camera and telescope tube - it works really well, and it is a blast to take on camping trips but it is a different kind of complexity. It packs down tiny so fits in the camper van easily. I'll try and find some examples to post, I never seem to have good luck posting images here
The next decision is are you going to do One Shot Color or Monochrome?
On the camera front you can use a DSLR or an ILC, I did a lot of work with a Fuji XT-2 and XT-3, and don't forget the Nikon D810a or the Canon modified equivalent, this is all called one shot color since you are shooting a color image (the CFA impacts exposure and you have to limit exposure time based on sky condition, I found 30-45 seconds worked fine, take a lot of images, use software to register (align) and then stack them. The next step up, as Craig suggests, is a monochrome camera, and better yet one that is cooled electronically. Vendors include SBIG (who kinda started it all), FLI, ATIK, ZWO, QHYCCD, QSI, and more I can't remember right now. SBIG and FLI the premium brands, however its getting really complex with the move from CCD to CMOS (you should hear the arguments in the astro circles, it puts the photographers to shame
ZWO deserves special mention since they also make a device Craig referenced - called the ASIAir, which is a tiny computer (Raspberry Pi) designed specifically for astronomy and controlled by your iPad - it is all in one and has become quite capable, it can help with polar alignment, focusing, guiding (another whole subject), taking images, running the filter wheel (if you are doing monochrome you will want a filter wheel and filters), etc.. The ASIAir is a fantastic device, however it only supports ZWO cameras, ZWO guide cameras, ZWO focus motors and ZWO filter wheels, however it is the quickest path to astroimaging with a dedicated astro camera. Highly recommended especially to get started. I still use it all the time unless I'm trying to collect exposure time for a group project - then the big guns get deployed.
One thing with the ASIAir and iPad that is really fun is to use live stacking and registration for sharing the night sky with a group, it is awe inspiring to see the image unfold as more images are stacked - I will usually have another telescope setup so folks can try to see the same thing with their own eyes - something I've never tired of!
A ZWO cooled monochrome micro4/3 or APS-c sized imager can be had used for $600 or so and up to the ZWO ASI6200mm for $5K, the latter being 60 megapixel full-frame. I always recommend either micro4/3 or APS-c to get started, full-frame increases the cost of everything like filters and telescopes that can cover full-frame can get really, really expensive. So a ZWO ASI1600mm (monochrome) or a ZWO ASI294MC (color) are incredible entry points and will keep you busy for years and years.
So lets say you decide monochrome, then you need a filter wheel and filters - ah and yet another decision - broadband (LRGB) or narrowband (SHO)? Broadband takes exposures through four filters, clear (Luminance), red, green and blue and you composite the images in post to make a color image. Exposure times are "relatively" short BUT you need a relatively dark site to do good work. Narrowband takes three or four images, clear (Luminance), Sodium2, Hydrogen Alpha and Oxygen3 - these filters have very narrow passbands and thus exposures get long quick, however you can image from the middle of a big city. Ray Gralak and Robert Gendler first introduced me to narrowband imaging long ago, look up their work - Ray used to image from his driveway under street lamps in urban San Jose.
Get a seven position filter wheel, since if you "get hooked" you can have LRGBSHO filters all loaded and ready to go - and yes they are expensive, so another reason to keep sensor size to micro4/3 or APS-c, cost goes up geometrically
Although it is a tough decision, I'd probably suggest starting with a one shot color (ZWO ASI294mc) and a light pollution filter maybe? I'd start with a 80-90mm refractor, you really want to stay with an Apochromatic (either a doublet or a triplet). Mount wise gets harder, I never had a lot of luck or fun with the star trackers, however many people (like Don) have had good luck. I'd go for a GEM and just learn how to polar align, the ASIAir can make it simpler. I'd go with the ASIAir and an iPad. I'd get either a Bahtinov mask for manual focusing or a ZWO EAF focus motor (this can be a pain to get mounted properly depending on your telescope). So mount wise I'd spend as much as you can, so either used or new if you can - the trade off is stability versus weight versus cost. There are definitely bargains to be found, folks get into and out of the hobby on a regular basis. For many years my "compact" kit was a Vixen SXD2 mount with their tripod (today there are better choices), a Takahashi FSQ 85mm telescope and a variety of cameras including long ago a SBIG STL11000, SBIG 8300, later ZWO ASI294mc and later a ZWO ASI1600mm with 7 position filter wheel and an ASIAir using an iPad.
Cloudy Nights is a great website for classified, forums, opinions, etc......
Yes this can be a money pit and a time pit and a learning journey as well as training in patience! Dante loves astrophotographers even more than s/he loves medium format photographers!
Kind regards, Glenn
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time on this post, it is so helpful!! I am not sure I approached this correctly, but I decided to buy my scope first. It seemed to me that would to some degree determine my minimum standards on my mount. For my scope, I purchased the TAKAHASHI FSQ-106EDX4 QUADRUPLET REFRACTOR. I am planning on getting a reducer to go with that (as soon as I can figure out which one I need). In regards to a camera, I originally thought I would mount my IQ4 150/Cambo with Canon adapter as a starting point. I still may do this, but I am leaning toward one of the ZWO cameras at the moment. In regards to color or monochrome, I had been thinking monochrome but now I am wondering if I should go with the one shot color? As I have spent time researching this, I have seen numerous images with one shot color that I would be very pleased to have taken and it seems a bit less overwhelming. At the moment I am stuck on a mount decision, here are some of the mounts that have been recommended to me.
SkyWatcher EQ6-R Pro
Celestron CGX-L GoTo EQ
iOptron CEM70
Paramount MX
10Micron GM1000
AP Mach 1
I would like to avoid a mistake here. I want something sufficient for the equipment, reasonably user friendly and light enough I can manage it by myself. I think I am suffering from "analysis paralysis" on this. Thank you again, Glenn!
Greg
glennedens
Active member
Greg,
The FSQ106EDX is a great telescope, I have one! Native it covers 88mm image circle and with the reducer its 44mm. The "best" results will come from Monochrome (either narrowband or broadband depending on how dark a site you can get to for broadband). I use the ZWO ASI6200mm (full-frame mono) with the FSQ106, I've also used my Hasselblad X1Dii.
The filter dilemma gets a bit more complex at fast focal ratios, F3.5 is on the borderline, you need a different filter bandpass for fast focal ratios, regular filters probably will work at F3.5, however some folks say the cutoff is F4 before you need to change to the "fast filters" - this is for Narrowband, the broadband don't really matter. And of course if you go full-frame you need minimum 50.4mm unmounted filters (mounted 2" will vignette) and some folks go all the way to 50mm square, although ZWO doesn't make a 50mm square filter holder yet, I use the ZWO 7 position with 50.4mm unmounted round filters. The 645RD reducer is a beast so unless you really need medium format I'd stick with one of the other two versions. I had use of a FLI16800 medium format camera, it was huge, heavy and expensive - and the results weren't noticeably better (plus the pixel size is not really ideal for the FSQ106 - that scope wants small pixels).
The issue with Monochrome is more work in post processing, however its not that bad, compared to the hurdle to get in at all. OSC is a fast way to start, however I wouldn't spend money on a full-frame OSC, you'll likely never be able to sell it, whereas a Micro4/3 or APS-C OSC has resale value and uses smaller filters.
So an ASI294 (color) is a good choice to start, if you get bitten by the bug they hold their value if you buy used you can probably get most of what you paid back when you upgrade to Mono.
Mount wise my 2 cents: Mach1 or MX/MyT - I now have the Mach2 but had a Mach1 for years. I am a bigger fan of Astro-Physics mounts versus Software Bisque (only because I don't like using The Sky X, although it can be a great all-in-one software package if you get all the different modules - so its very personal just like LR vs C1, etc.). My 5 cents = Mach1 from your list
I wouldn't recommend the iOptron path, they make nice mounts, however there seems to be an issue (QA or not sure what) that many local folks (NM) have had a lot of trouble getting one to fully function. The Skywatcher is like "old reliable" and the CGX-L is fine, however for the money I'd go Mach1 (and get on the list for Mach2 or 1100, no up front commitment and you can decide when your name comes up). You can also get an Astro-Physics AP900 used, and that is a fantastic capable mount, often the AP900 can be had for less than the Mach1). The AP900 breaks down into two very manageable pieces.
Hope this helps?
The FSQ106EDX is a great telescope, I have one! Native it covers 88mm image circle and with the reducer its 44mm. The "best" results will come from Monochrome (either narrowband or broadband depending on how dark a site you can get to for broadband). I use the ZWO ASI6200mm (full-frame mono) with the FSQ106, I've also used my Hasselblad X1Dii.
The filter dilemma gets a bit more complex at fast focal ratios, F3.5 is on the borderline, you need a different filter bandpass for fast focal ratios, regular filters probably will work at F3.5, however some folks say the cutoff is F4 before you need to change to the "fast filters" - this is for Narrowband, the broadband don't really matter. And of course if you go full-frame you need minimum 50.4mm unmounted filters (mounted 2" will vignette) and some folks go all the way to 50mm square, although ZWO doesn't make a 50mm square filter holder yet, I use the ZWO 7 position with 50.4mm unmounted round filters. The 645RD reducer is a beast so unless you really need medium format I'd stick with one of the other two versions. I had use of a FLI16800 medium format camera, it was huge, heavy and expensive - and the results weren't noticeably better (plus the pixel size is not really ideal for the FSQ106 - that scope wants small pixels).
The issue with Monochrome is more work in post processing, however its not that bad, compared to the hurdle to get in at all
. OSC is a fast way to start, however I wouldn't spend money on a full-frame OSC, you'll likely never be able to sell it, whereas a Micro4/3 or APS-C OSC has resale value and uses smaller filters.So an ASI294 (color) is a good choice to start, if you get bitten by the bug they hold their value if you buy used you can probably get most of what you paid back when you upgrade to Mono.
Mount wise my 2 cents: Mach1 or MX/MyT - I now have the Mach2 but had a Mach1 for years. I am a bigger fan of Astro-Physics mounts versus Software Bisque (only because I don't like using The Sky X, although it can be a great all-in-one software package if you get all the different modules - so its very personal just like LR vs C1, etc.). My 5 cents = Mach1 from your list
I wouldn't recommend the iOptron path, they make nice mounts, however there seems to be an issue (QA or not sure what) that many local folks (NM) have had a lot of trouble getting one to fully function. The Skywatcher is like "old reliable" and the CGX-L is fine, however for the money I'd go Mach1 (and get on the list for Mach2 or 1100, no up front commitment and you can decide when your name comes up). You can also get an Astro-Physics AP900 used, and that is a fantastic capable mount, often the AP900 can be had for less than the Mach1). The AP900 breaks down into two very manageable pieces.
Hope this helps?
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glennedens
Active member
Greg, the one issue you might eventually run into with the FSQ106EDX is the focuser is not the best design, do you know which version EDX you have? Takahashi got rid of the "captains wheel" which helped but at the end of the day the focuser is not on par with the optics. Although I've just lived with it a new focuser is in the future - this gets to the money pit part
A few choices are the Starlight Instruments replacement focuser, the Primaluce Labs 4" ESATTO or the Night Crawler - the latter is a beast and a work of engineering art - however it isn't without quirks - I'll probably go with the ESATTO and their upcoming rotator. Keeping the imaging train light (ZWO) will help the focuser a lot. I had lots of issues with the FLI16800 and its gigantic ATLAS micro-focuser and filter wheel. The stock focuser simply can't support medium format.
You also should get familiar with Precise Parts - you will need custom adaptors machined to get everything to work, especially with the reducer where the back focus is critical, like less than 1mm critical.
Glenn
A few choices are the Starlight Instruments replacement focuser, the Primaluce Labs 4" ESATTO or the Night Crawler - the latter is a beast and a work of engineering art - however it isn't without quirks - I'll probably go with the ESATTO and their upcoming rotator. Keeping the imaging train light (ZWO) will help the focuser a lot. I had lots of issues with the FLI16800 and its gigantic ATLAS micro-focuser and filter wheel. The stock focuser simply can't support medium format.
You also should get familiar with Precise Parts - you will need custom adaptors machined to get everything to work, especially with the reducer where the back focus is critical, like less than 1mm critical.
Glenn
Craig Stocks
Well-known member
A couple more thoughts.
Regarding color vs mono - the type of targets you’re after may lead you to one or the other. Galaxies and planets are best in RGB color so a color camera works well, but the FSQ106 is too short of a focal length for planets or most galaxies. Mono and narrowband imaging with Ha, Oiii and Sii filters is really the best approach for most nebulae since they tend to be loaded with ionized gas that glows like a neon light. Also it’s a lot easier to use narrowband imaging where light pollution is an issue.
I’ve never had problems with the stock FSQ106 focuser but it bery sensitive to temperature and need pretty constant refocusing. I’d highly recommend an autofocuser. Imhave the ZWO EAF along with the bracket for the FSQ and it was easy to mount. You then set parameters for when to refocus such as with every filter change or every so often. If you’re going to try the ASI Air then you’ll want to stay in the ZWO / ASI universe of add-ons.
Regarding color vs mono - the type of targets you’re after may lead you to one or the other. Galaxies and planets are best in RGB color so a color camera works well, but the FSQ106 is too short of a focal length for planets or most galaxies. Mono and narrowband imaging with Ha, Oiii and Sii filters is really the best approach for most nebulae since they tend to be loaded with ionized gas that glows like a neon light. Also it’s a lot easier to use narrowband imaging where light pollution is an issue.
I’ve never had problems with the stock FSQ106 focuser but it bery sensitive to temperature and need pretty constant refocusing. I’d highly recommend an autofocuser. Imhave the ZWO EAF along with the bracket for the FSQ and it was easy to mount. You then set parameters for when to refocus such as with every filter change or every so often. If you’re going to try the ASI Air then you’ll want to stay in the ZWO / ASI universe of add-ons.