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IQ4 150 averaging tool

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Anyone tried the IQ4 150 averaging tool yet? My back just arrived, and I’ll admit I don’t quite understand the interface. can’t seem to find any documentation online for it.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Something is not right here. 1.01.18 should not have the option to view the LAB Features. Maybe it was previously running an early beta firmware (which had LAB Features enabled), someone turned on LAB, and then updated the back, skipping a version or something, such that the back didn't disable the LAB Features.

For clarity (unless something has changed I'm not aware of, which is unlikely, but not impossible), there is no public firmware that provides Frame Averaging. That feature (and the whole concept of LAB Features in general) is very exciting, but is not yet released, even in beta form, to the public.

I'd suggest you consult with your dealer to investigate further.
 

RLB

Member
Not in my version of the same firmware. Swipe from right only reveals built in leveling.

Robert
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Something is not right here. 1.01.18 should not have the option to view the LAB Features. Maybe it was previously running an early beta firmware (which had LAB Features enabled), someone turned on LAB, and then updated the back, skipping a version or something, such that the back didn't disable the LAB Features.

For clarity (unless something has changed I'm not aware of, which is unlikely, but not impossible), there is no public firmware that provides Frame Averaging. That feature (and the whole concept of LAB Features in general) is very exciting, but is not yet released, even in beta form, to the public.

I'd suggest you consult with your dealer to investigate further.
This explains it’s behavior, nothing seems to happen except taking a normal shot. Currently just an interface showing.

AS far as 1.01.18, if they are numbering their builds correctly, any beta should be in a build number not yet released, and there certainly shouldn’t be two versions of the same build number floating around.

but for now, no biggie, just ignore it. Now to go find those 2 lbs of ND/Split ND filters and holders and reconfigure my bag to fit them back in before I head to Death Valley. :cry:
 

Orley

New member
Great to hear your IQ4150 is in hand. Looking forward to images. A tour through your gallery in Park City was inspiring. Love the shot of Bridal Veil Falls in Provo Canyon. Did you capture the image from a helicopter? All the prints on display are MASTER CLASS.

So far, my experience with the IQ4150 has been amazing. Very little color cast with the 23 or 32.

Back to the topic, my back has fw 1.01.18 and there is no beaker icon when swiping from the right.
 

Orley

New member
Great to hear your IQ4150 is in hand. Looking forward to images. A tour through your gallery in Park City was inspiring. Love the shot of Bridal Veil Falls in Provo Canyon. Did you capture the image from a helicopter? All your prints on display are MASTER CLASS.

So far, my experience with the IQ4150 has been amazing. Very little color cast with the 23 or 32.

My firmware is 1.01.18 and there is no beaker when swiping from the right.
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Great to hear your IQ4150 is in hand. Looking forward to images. A tour through your gallery in Park City was inspiring. Love the shot of Bridal Veil Falls in Provo Canyon. Did you capture the image from a helicopter? All your prints on display are MASTER CLASS.

So far, my experience with the IQ4150 has been amazing. Very little color cast with the 23 or 32.

My firmware is 1.01.18 and there is no beaker when swiping from the right.
Glad you stopped by, appreciate the kind words.

Thought I would throw a quick update, yes there does seem to be an issue with my back, as Doug said something isn’t quite right. Live View has been a little flakey (as in not working at all, sometimes, just a black screen). It quit working altogether, and the fact I could see the beaker seemed to indicate that somehow my firmware update didn’t fully install. So I reverted to factory firmware, and it is a beta and yes the beaker shows, but not the leveling tool. I then reinstalled 1.01.18 which seemed to fail because the back after a few minutes just seem to freeze up, but after it drained the battery and new one was installed it booted up fine, but I”m back to where I was. Firmware installed, leveling tool back, beaker still there, and Live View still seeming to have issues on occasion.

So still a work in progress, but I think it is at least functional enough to take to Death Valley, although I might see if CI will let me keep my IQ3 100 for a few days and take as well in case it flakes out on the trip while we work through this.
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Sorry to hear of your problem, Wayne. Ironically the two features that most prompted me to order an IQ4 were the frame averaging and the focus peaking on Live View - neither of which you're getting! (I have seen the frame averaging at work at a Phase introduction back in November.)

My back has just arrived at my dealer and I'll be picking it up in a week or so when I can get to Toronto. My dealer wants to make sure my XF is fully updated and to give me a short course in operating the new back before he'll let me have it....

I'll report on just what I find when I can operate it.
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Yeah, those were the two items that pushed me to go ahead and order the back as well.

So final update, thanks to all, especially Steve and Brad at CI, also Doug for his comments, etc. It seems my problem was from not realizing how dramatically low light affected liveView and “exposure” simulation and how your shutter speed effects that. On a tech camera I was worried, as that’s the only way I focus and predawn light can be pretty poor. However, Steve suggested upping the ISO to focus in that case, and that does work, just can’t forget to put it back. yeah, sort of a pita, but then I remember LiveView focusing with a IQ180 and a variND filter ... and that was only a few years ago.

As to why I seem to be able to get to the frame averaging interface and no one else still puzzles me, but hopefully new firmware is on the horizon to get the backs functionality to where it needs to be. I attached a picture that shows the Phase One Labs “beaker” icon, touching that takes me to the frame averaging interface. seems all on 1.01.18 should get this. no issue there, other than the effort of trying to figure out why it was there and how it worked (or in fact that it doesn’t work ).

oh well. Headed to DV ... should be fun :)
 

Attachments

drunkenspyder

Well-known member
Yeah, those were the two items that pushed me to go ahead and order the back as well.

So final update, thanks to all, especially Steve and Brad at CI, also Doug for his comments, etc. It seems my problem was from not realizing how dramatically low light affected liveView and “exposure” simulation and how your shutter speed effects that. On a tech camera I was worried, as that’s the only way I focus and predawn light can be pretty poor. However, Steve suggested upping the ISO to focus in that case, and that does work, just can’t forget to put it back. yeah, sort of a pita, but then I remember LiveView focusing with a IQ180 and a variND filter ... and that was only a few years ago.

oh well. Headed to DV ... should be fun :)
Yeah, I know that one. Pre-dawn Mono Lake. 7ªF, and Live View is a blank screen except for that little FPS indicator. Felt like an idiot.

Enjoy DV!
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Phase one needs to get the IQ3 interface features available hopefully sooner than later. Only allowing exposure simulation for liveview seems strange to me. Especially for landscape shooters and or anyone coming from a IQ3.

Paul C
 

dchew

Well-known member
I still think it would be helpful to have a “live view ISO” that is auto set based on a minimum shutter speed you want in LV. So if I am at ISO 50 and 1 sec, I can go to live view with a preset LV min shutter speed, say 1/30 sec. When viewing in LV, the iso will be auto set to 1600 (the 5 stops between 1 and 1/30) and it will show the exposure simulation as if I was at 1 sec and ISO 50.

I still get to see the exposure simulation, and when I back out of live view it is still set at ISO 50.

Dave

Edit: I should explain this better:
  1. Set "Min LV shutter speed" to, say, 1/30 sec.
  2. With ES at ISO 50, set up Electronic shutter to some guess at shutter speed, say 1 sec.
  3. Go to LV. The back calculates 5 stops between your min 1/30 and the ES setting of 1 sec. LV automatically adds those 5 stops to the ISO, and shows a simulaton of 1/30 sec at ISO 1600.
  4. Now you can see the same effective exposure of 1 sec / ISO 50.
  5. If the simulation is too bright or two dark, adjust 1 sec shutter speed up or down as necessary.
  6. When you exit out of LV, ES will be set at 1 sec +- the adjustment you made while in LV.
 
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Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Yeah, those were the two items that pushed me to go ahead and order the back as well.
OK, I just finished using my Rodie 28mm on my Cambo DB, a little practice so I’m comfortable with the back, and after finishing and working on the files, I must admit that this statement isn’t true, I was all in because of the BSI sensor and the ability to actually use my tech camera again. While the IQ3100 was OK with 40mm and greater, my 28mm was pretty much unusable, and the work of shooting LCC’s was tiring. I didn’t shoot the 40 or longer lens tonight, but based on the results with the 28mm, not sure I’ll need an LCC except on the 28.

So below is the real reason I made the jump, left is IQ3100 LCC, right is IQ4150 LCC. This is with 2mm of rise. CMOS really made tech quite viable again for me, this even takes it to another level.This is with the center filter. I plan on trying it without the CF on my trip for those occasions where the 2.5 stops of density are a problem. Junk_Session_cosessiondb.jpg
 
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drunkenspyder

Well-known member
OK, I just finished using my Rodie 28mm on my Cambo DB, a little practice so I’m comfortable with the back, and after finishing and working on the files, I must admit that this statement isn’t true, I was all in because of the BSI sensor and the ability to actually use my tech camera again. While the IQ3100 was OK with 40mm and greater, my 28mm was pretty much unusable, and the work of shooting LCC’s was tiring. I didn’t shoot the 40 or longer lens tonight, but based on the results with the 28mm, not sure I’ll need an LCC except on the 28.

So below is the real reason I made the jump, left is IQ3100 LCC, right is IQ4150 LCC. This is with 2mm of rise. CMOS really made tech quite viable again for me, this even takes it to another level.This is with the center filter. I plan on trying it without the CF on my trip for those occasions where the 2.5 stops of density are a problem. View attachment 138896
Thanks for posting Wayne. This is part of what got me excited when my dealer told me about it. I didn't get to see it when I saw a demo last fall, because all the shooting was XF. What I really need to try is the Rodie 23; my 40 looks amazingly clear. The prospect of not being required to shoot LCCs is very appealing. FWIW, I haven't shot with the center filter in almost forever.
 

drunkenspyder

Well-known member
SMH. Just tested the 23 and 32 Rodies on a Cambo 1600. Just no false color, nothing. And while the LCC still helps to correct for falloff, and the occasional particulates, it is truly unnecessary. Amazing. And even on the 23, the new WCC filter holder introduces only nearly imperceptible vignetting. The Canon TS17 is also clear as a bell, but with the IQ4.150, it may have reached its limit. I haven't done any serious testing, but the two Rodies are up to the 150; the Canon seems not to be. Anyway, the 32 and especially the 23 are clear beneficiaries of the new sensor. With the WCC 150 system, seems very promising.
 
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Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
The IQ4 150 manual says by default it uses exposure simulation, then goes on to state if the screen is too dim, just temporarily raise the ISO to get a bright image.

I’m not sure where they are heading with this, I assume they understand that means they really aren’t doing full exposure simulation because that should be happening automatically, gain should be applied to compensate for the low light level when the shutter speeds get slow and I shouldn’t have to be raising the ISO just to see the image or focus. And I assume there will be an option to turn it off, because the manual does say “by default”, which implies there is (or will be) another setting that will be available to turn it off so it works like IQ3 100 and the LiveView image is always rendered in a usable manner regardless of camera settings. I guess that means changing the manual but maybe that’s what they’ve done in the past (although they’ve never released a back that was missing so much stuff). this seems to be what my dealer feels as well, so it’s a matter of waiting for a firmware update.

I’ve always felt LiveView and exposure simulation has challenges with both a tech camera and the XF (or any dSLR type camera). With a tech camera if you open up to focus, the image will be overexposed, sometimes to the point of being blown out. Easier to just leave exposure simulation off and trust experience and test shots to judge the exposure. My problem with liveView focusing on the dSLR's is it is more difficult to nail a specific focus point with the lens at the shooting aperture, especially at 150mm or with the 210mm. Wide open its pretty easy to get the perfect focus point sharp when using a hyperlocal point. Once it is stopped down, it’s a lot harder to find that“perfect” setting, since there is a tiny “range” you can move the lens to without seeing any significant change. I wish Live view on the XF had a “focus” live view option which opened the aperture and adjusted the display brightness accordingly (if using exposure simulation) or to me better yet would be a Live View depth of field preview option but otherwise the camera stays open (and exposure simulation compensated accordingly ) since I rarely bother with depth of field preview (although maybe that would be bad for the sensor).

Sorry, the real point of my post is the current challenge of focusing the IQ4 150 on a tech camera for me was easily overcome by just raising ISO up for focus, then adjusting it back down, and of course you could use the settings required for focus to extrapolate a shutter speed at the final aperture. It really is only a problem when it’s really dark. However the other problem of having to constantly change the shutter speed to compensate for opening up the lens to focus was a nuisance when I had enough light to focus - I was constantly fiddling with the shutter speed when opening up to focus then fixing it after focusing it. Basically every shot on the tech camera involved messing with the settings if I wanted to focus wide open. (unless I was willing to focus at the final aperture which I don’t think I would ever do on a tech camera).

***Edit: So how about a Live View focus mode button or option in the LiveView slide out menu ... on a tech camera it just disables exposure compensation. click it instead of the normal LiveView button, when finished just switch it back to normal Live View with exposure compensation. On the XF it disables exposure compensation and opens up the aperture. Switch back and normal LiveView which includes DoF preview. (OK, wrong thread I know there’s another thread with what we’ll like to see in the new back. sry)

I was just at Badwater, and cranking up the ISO I was able to easily use tilt and focus for infinity with my Cambo and 28mm Rodenstock lens so the workarounds do work fine.

and don’t misunderstand me, despite my complaint I have no real issues as long as they do fix this, because this back is so wonderful on tech camera I am more than happy to live with the little inconveniences of what’s missing rather than having to wait several more months to get one while they worked all of these firmware issues out.

Here I had my focus all set about 20 or 30 minutes before this shot, it was quite dark but I think I moved to 3200 ISO (or make even 6400) at 1/15/f4 and the display was quite bright and easy to tilt/focus and get it ready for the shot.

Cambo ActusDB/IQ4 150, Rodenstock 28mm, 1/10th at f/11, ISO 50
 
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