New Hassy on the way?

[glenerrolrd]

How could anyone OBJECTIVELY look at HB as a business and not conclude they are a mess ?

Remember when we argued about the rumored 30 000 camera back log with X1D or the infusion of capital from DJI that would allow HB to develop next generation gear ? What happened ?

A terrific CEO that saved the company and over saw the development of the X1D left .

The X1D became readily available within 6 months and was discounted heavily by B&H . Brick and mortar dealers were quite unhappy that they were undercut on price while holding inventory .

HB defaults on loan from DJI and is now 100% owned by DJI .

X1D out of stock with no forecast of future cameras .

Fuji has dominated the market with first the 50 S then the 50 R and soon the 100 .

This takes away nothing from the X1D product line which will flawed has tremendous capability and is loved by many photographers . Its the company that is questionable ...at least until they SHIP the next generation X camera .

 

[vieri]

... Its the company that is questionable ...at least until they SHIP the next generation X camera .

Hello Roger,

all you say makes sense to me, except your conclusion: if all you said is true, why would shipping one more generation of camera make any difference? And, for that matter, why shipping a new camera would make Hasselblad trustable again while shipping new lenses and / or new accessories won't?

--

Now more in general, and this is most definitely not directed to you, I am really not sure what are we talking about here. What I mean is: has there been any promise of a new X series camera model anywhere from Hasselblad, with a delivery date attached, that Hasselblad defaulted on? Not that I know of. It seems to me that what happens, instead, is this:

1. Online forums create rumours and speculations about supposedly arriving / shipping new models;
2. Rumours are disproved by reality (as it is to be expected);
3. Forums talk switch from rumours to talks of doom for company X (Hasselblad in this case), only because those same rumours they circulated in the first place proved false.

This happened not long ago with Leica about the supposed death of the SL line, which seems to me to be alive and well, and is happening to Hasselblad about the X1D, which I also think is alive and well (at least, I have no reasons to believe otherwise, rumours aside).

The thing is, every manufacturer has their own speed, their own problems, and their own way of doing things. We probably should learn to deal with that and enjoy our tools in the meantime for what they are meant to do (taking photos, anyone?), rather than wasting time on forums speculating about this or that manufacturer's death...

Best regards,

Vieri

 

[Satrycon]

and the S line..till they announced the S3

This happened not long ago with Leica about the supposed death of the SL line,

Vieri

 

[dave.gt]

Hello Roger,

all you say makes sense to me, except your conclusion: if all you said is true, why would shipping one more generation of camera make any difference? And, for that matter, why shipping a new camera would make Hasselblad trustable again while shipping new lenses and / or new accessories won't?

--

Now more in general, and this is most definitely not directed to you, I am really not sure what are we talking about here. What I mean is: has there been any promise of a new X series camera model anywhere from Hasselblad, with a delivery date attached, that Hasselblad defaulted on? Not that I know of. It seems to me that what happens, instead, is this:

1. Online forums create rumours and speculations about supposedly arriving / shipping new models;
2. Rumours are disproved by reality (as it is to be expected);
3. Forums talk switch from rumours to talks of doom for company X (Hasselblad in this case), only because those same rumours they circulated in the first place proved false.

This happened not long ago with Leica about the supposed death of the SL line, which seems to me to be alive and well, and is happening to Hasselblad about the X1D, which I also think is alive and well (at least, I have no reasons to believe otherwise, rumours aside).

The thing is, every manufacturer has their own speed, their own problems, and their own way of doing things. We probably should learn to deal with that and enjoy our tools in the meantime for what they are meant to do (taking photos, anyone?), rather than wasting time on forums speculating about this or that manufacturer's death...

Best regards,

Vieri

Thank you, Vieri.

Worst case is the doom and gloom folks are right. So what?

I do not believe that is the case, but again, so what? It seems to me that the current generation of folks using vastly complex high-end gear are spoiled. I know I am.

But to constantly complain and surmise about a company not being trust-worthy because one cannot get the cameras and lenses as soon as they want is silly and not helpful to anyone. Some even go overboard as one of our members recently did.... but not now.

There are more important things in life than our desires for everything and we want it now. I have plenty of cameras in different formats to keep me busy.

So what, if Company A or B does not deliver according to my expectations I am entitled to nothing in this world when it comes to consumer goods. Life goes on.

People are dying and suffering all around us. I prefer to spend my time waiting helping to solve those problems one at a time. I doubt a new Hasselblad anything will help that.

So, when I want a service or a product, I contact the provider. If they cannot deliver I have plenty of choices and my actions will be far more helpful than forums.

 

[tcdeveau]

They could very well be a mess, but in my mind there's a difference between being a mess and being done.

Patience has been the name of the game with the X1D from day one, and those that are still interested/invested in the X-system just need to continue being patient. They're shipping new lenses and new accessories (albeit at a slow pace) and have registered the next X-system camera with at least one standards organization. New gear will come from them when it does.

And if it doesn't, and the doom and gloom is true - there are other viable options these days. Shrug.

It only took almost 2 years, but I've finally have my X-system kit where I need it (with the 21/45/65/90mm). I'm happy with it and it continues to meet my needs for now. I've been enjoying the new 65mm lately :thumbup: Just need to find some time and energy to get out and shoot with the nicer spring weather afoot and spend less time on the forum.

 

[dj may]

How could anyone OBJECTIVELY look at HB as a business and not conclude they are a mess ?

I have worked quite a bit with large multi-national companies. When a small company is acquired, it rarely works out well for the small company; not never, but rarely. It helps when the CEO of the large company is personally interested in the business, because it becomes like a hobby. When that interest wanes, it is over. I have seen profitable businesses just shut down because the CEO was no longer interested.

In another case, the large company was only interested in the patents and intellectual property of the small company. These were integrated into the overall business and the products and services of the acquired company were discontinued. Obligations for product support were continued for a number of years.

The size of the Hasselblad business is tiny compared to DJI. I am sure DJI had reasons for the acquisition, although I do not know what they were.

For Hasselblad owners, the worst case is probably that if new business is discontinued, the existing products would likely continue to be supported for 5-10 years. That is not so bad.

 

[glenerrolrd]

The point is simple and well understood . Will HB continue as a going concern into the foreseeable future ? No one knows but many are placing significant bets (investments in gear ) making their own assumptions .

Obviously a financially strong HB would be able to continue to invest in R&D ..bring new products to market as well as keeping existing products viable with firmware updates ,maintenance ,new lenses and accessories . Not to say the development and retention of a strong dealer network .

Draw you own conclusions and place your bets .

 

[Phase V]

Rumour is they will release it on 21 July to celebrate the 50 anniversary of the moon landing and they will call it the LUNAR II.

 

[Paul2660]

The problem may also be on the DJI side, as their business model is getting hit constantly at least in the US with more and tighter sanctions by the FAA. They no longer sell the Phantom (which is still the icon for any drone commercial on TV or movies) one of the most popular drones they made. The last version of that P4 (the vr 2.0) is still plagued by control problems which have been know by DJI since June of last year and no fixes have ever really addressed the stability problems.

DJI has several other businesses involving drones that most folks never hear about. Their larger industrial sized products appear to be selling very well. The consumer business may have peaked for now, and more players continue to enter the market.

Their flight tech is 2nd to none, but they have been very quiet about any follow on to the Phantom line. (Which as far as DJI was concerned was out of stock back in October/November of 2018 and has never been back in stock).

The X1D set a benchmark for mirrorless, with an excellent design and workmanship. What I still don't understand is why the X1D was at first heavily discounted, then showed withdrawn/discontinued, then came back at full list for about 1 week, then became discontinued again. There has been a FCC approval for a follow on camera for some time now.

Hopefully the product line will continue on with future camera updates.

Paul C

 

[Paratom]

In anyways,
the x1d is still one of my favorite cameras and I personally prefer it over the Fuji (which I tested and which is a great system as well with very attractive price point). IMO Fuji kind of "bought" many customers with there price discounts.
In the last months the 80 and 21 Hassy lenses were brought to market.
Hasselblad is certainly smaller than Fuji and slower, but I would not think it means they are dead.
I hope the delay of x2d/x1dii announcement means they take the time to deliver a good product.
The future will show.

 

[hcubell]

How could anyone OBJECTIVELY look at HB as a business and not conclude they are a mess ?

Ok, here is how you do it. First, go to this webpage, https://www.hasselblad.com/careers/interview-with-vincent-laine/, and read a bit about Vincent Laine. He is now the lead camera designer at Hasselblad. He had a similar position designing camera bodies at Leica and was responsible for designing the Leica Q. That's the individual who I want designing my next camera, not the team at Fuji that designed the GFX 50S and now, even worse, the 100S. Do you think Mr. Laine is busy designing cameras, or they hired him and are paying him to sit on his hands? Second, go to this webpage and look at the positions that Hasselblad is looking to fill: https://www.hasselblad.com/careers/available-positions/. Sure looks to me like they are pretty focused on hiring people to work on designing and building new cameras.
Almost all of the "sky is falling" prognosticating about Hasselblad's future is from people who have an agenda about Hasselblad for some reason and do not even own a Hasselblad camera and never will. In the meantime, there are thousands of very happy owners of X1D cameras and lenses who are busy out there in the real world taking wonderful photographs. Hasselblad may not be out there holding my hand by whispering in my ear about the next great thing through their in-house rumor/PR site, but that's not really important to me.

 

[cerett]

Some people on this forum have been predicting the imminent demise of Hasselblad for years. Remember all the Lunar postings. Personally, until there is really something new, I think we should put this thread to rest and move on.

 

[Christopher]

It’s funny that you criticize anyone posting something negative about Hasselblad, but constantly bash Fuji for their 100Mp design... sorry but I have used both the X1D and own the gfx50s and while the X1D is much prettier, the Fuji feels so
much better after handholding both cameras for a while...

Nearly nobody ever hold a gfx 100 and while the design wouldn’t be my fist choice, I loved using my 1ds and 1ds mk2....

 

[cerett]

It’s funny that you criticize anyone posting something negative about Hasselblad, but constantly bash Fuji for their 100Mp design... sorry but I have used both the X1D and own the gfx50s and while the X1D is much prettier, the Fuji feels so
much better after handholding both cameras for a while...

Nearly nobody ever hold a gfx 100 and while the design wouldn’t be my fist choice, I loved using my 1ds and 1ds mk2....

Excuse me, I was specifically referring to those who have continuously predicted the demise of Hasselblad. If you prefer the Fuji over the X1D, so be it. That has nothing to do with the premise of my statement.

 

[JeRuFo]

There is a tendency on this forum to bash manufacturers and their choices and to predict how and why they will go out of business. It's not just Hasselblad, it's pretty much with every release by a small manufacturer or about certain types of camera. All of these discussions have gotten long in the tooth to me and frankly why I don't check in to the forum as much anymore. I'm often interested in how people use their equipment and why, but don't really get why anyone feels the need to share their dislike for a camera, camera choice or corporate policy repeatedly.

I have let myself get dragged into discussions like that in the past. But although I sometimes have quite strong positive feelings about a camera and sometimes even relatively logical recommendations on camera lens or film choices to family or colleagues, I can often not relate to how some people have such strong and very specific preferences bordering on fanaticism with all the negative social tendencies that go along with it. It's usually only one or two small things that really peak my interest in a piece of equipment and I thrive on limitations (like only bringing a technical camera to document social occasions), making my choices often illogical and not easy to recommend to others. I'm sure there are good allround camera's but to quote from the epic tv-series Chuck "If everything is awesome, then awesome by definition is just mediocre." And I don't need mediocre recommendations and I hate repetition (except to make a composition work sometimes.) Here's to manufacturers with the nerve to try new stuff again and again.

 

[hcubell]

It’s funny that you criticize anyone posting something negative about Hasselblad, but constantly bash Fuji for their 100Mp design... sorry but I have used both the X1D and own the gfx50s and while the X1D is much prettier, the Fuji feels so
much better after handholding both cameras for a while...

Nearly nobody ever hold a gfx 100 and while the design wouldn’t be my fist choice, I loved using my 1ds and 1ds mk2....

The next time you find me engaging in rank speculation about the likely demise of Fuji (or Phase One for that matter) as a camera manufacturer, you can call me out on it. However, expressing a personal opinion about the design of a camera is not even remotely the same thing. Surely, you get the difference.

 

[richardman]

Thank you moderators :clap:

 

[pegelli]

The next time you find me engaging in rank speculation about the likely demise of Fuji (or Phase One for that matter) as a camera manufacturer, you can call me out on it. However, expressing a personal opinion about the design of a camera is not even remotely the same thing. Surely, you get the difference.

Let's refresh our memory:

This has to be the most ugly and ungainly camera body I have ever seen.

I think this is OK, just an expression of a personal opinion.

I simply cannot imagine how this body ever received design approval. With all Fuji’s resources, do they not employ anyone with a shred of design sense?

Why that has to be emphasized by disparaging comments on Fuji's employees is beyond me, and in my mind similar (or worse) than people expressing the demise of Hasselblad as a company. Pls. note that I never said anything bad about Hasselblad, people using them, company or employees, it's just the double standard that rubs me the wrong way.

 

[dave.gt]

50 YEARS!!!!!!:facesmack:

That is amazing! It has been 50 years since humans first walked in the moon! And, I remember watching that on our television as it happened. It was such a wonderful happening because we were mired in the hell known as the Vietnam War at the time, and for something this great to have occurred, well, it gave us all hope for the future.

***(Side note: I am not sure if that hope has ever been realized but upon reflection, it may have been the precursor of the ultimate in "urban sprawl".:bugeyes: Yes, we humans are now planning many visits to the Moon and even to Mars. Mining, among other things is contemplated on the Moon.)

Hasselblad was there when Apollo 11 made history. A giant leap for a camera company as well!

And now it is 50 years later, a new camera awaits its debut. A special edition X1D?

I don't know, but the idea of a special edition is interesting!!!:thumbs:

So, let's get back on topic, shall we?:grin:

 

[hcubell]

Let's refresh our memory:
I think this is OK, just an expression of a personal opinion.


Why that has to be emphasized by disparaging comments on Fuji's employees is beyond me, and in my mind similar (or worse) than people expressing the demise of Hasselblad as a company. Pls. note that I never said anything bad about Hasselblad, people using them, company or employees, it's just the double standard that rubs me the wrong way.

I am afraid you just don’t get it. You are so inured to the endless and ultimately destructive speculation about the demise of Hasselblad as a going concern and how nobody in his right mind should buy a camera from them that you can’t tell how fundamentally different that is from personal opinions about the design of a camera body and the people who are responsible for it. What I personally think about the design of the Fuji GFX 100S and the people at Fuji who designed it will have ZERO effect on the overall perception of Fuji as a viable enterprise that people can feel confident about buying cameras from.