faberryman
Member
Cameras just aren't that complicated, and experience is transferable.
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New Hassy on the way?
- Thread starter drunkenspyder
- Start date
Not all of us have the luxury of having additional $10-30,000 cameras at their disposal should their one significant “investment” fail- so to those who neglect to see that these cameras are indeed an “investment” may just not be in touch, financially, with this concept. I don’t think anyone here is using the word “investment” in terms of expecting their equipment to appreciate in value, only that in the case, on this forum in particular, that these things do cost a bit of money. So use the word “investment” whichever way you prefer, but to discount the idea that these cameras are a sizable financial one to most, is a little shortsighted.
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vieri
Well-known member
Just a side note about the X1D in general, since it seems to me that it might be helpful to bring some focus to some of the comments I have been reading in this thread.
The X1D is not a universal shooter by any means. If you consider to buy one as such, you will most likely be disappointed; equally, not considering it to be a great camera just because it doesn't fit your particular shooting genre is not only unfair, but doesn't make much sense in the first place. Incidentally, X1D aside, Digital Medium Format systems tend not to be universal shooters, even in the Fuji / Pentax / Phase / Hasselblad H persuasion. I am sure there are people using them for anything with great results, like with everything else, but even if there are these are few and in between exceptions. While someone will probably find one of those exceptions just to disprove my point, generally speaking, and considering native lenses only because these are the ones you can use all your system's capabilities:
- The X1D is not made for sports shooting (nor is any Medium Format);
- The X1D is not made for nature shooting (nor is any MF);
- The X1D is decent / OK for street shooting, but there are definitely better choices for that (same for any MF);
- The X1D is decent / OK for product shooting, but there definitely are better choices, both in 35mm and in MF both with or without choosing a tech camera option (i.e., X1D has no T/S lenses, has limited macro options, etc)
- The X1D is amazing for Landscape, best feature set and best UI for this kind of shooting that I have ever used (and I tried everything, pretty much);
- The X1D is amazing for studio / portraiture;
Coming to user interface:
- The X1D sports one of the simpler if not the simplest menu system I have ever used, everything is extremely logical and well placed;
- The X1D sports one of the simpler if not the simplest UI on camera body, just the Leica SL (and perhaps the M) are both simpler and as powerful (or more).
That said, the X1D has some quirks and imperfection, as everything else:
- Slow startup time (inconsequential for the kind of shooting it excels at);
- Missing focus scale distance, both physically on lenses and digitally;
- Missing live view histogram (almost inconsequential for the kind of shootings it excels at, just take a test shot and you'll be fine);
- Some random bugs, but almost any system has them (the only camera I used which just worked was the Leica SL, everything else had problems).
In the end, if you shoot landscape like I do, I think there is no better camera than the X1D on the market at the moment, Fuji included (Fuji is definitely the only alternative I'd consider today). If you shoot people in controlled environments, I think this hold true as well. If you shoot anything else, perhaps not only the X1D but DMF in general might not be your best bet.
Best regards,
Vieri
The X1D is not a universal shooter by any means. If you consider to buy one as such, you will most likely be disappointed; equally, not considering it to be a great camera just because it doesn't fit your particular shooting genre is not only unfair, but doesn't make much sense in the first place. Incidentally, X1D aside, Digital Medium Format systems tend not to be universal shooters, even in the Fuji / Pentax / Phase / Hasselblad H persuasion. I am sure there are people using them for anything with great results, like with everything else, but even if there are these are few and in between exceptions. While someone will probably find one of those exceptions just to disprove my point, generally speaking, and considering native lenses only because these are the ones you can use all your system's capabilities:
- The X1D is not made for sports shooting (nor is any Medium Format);
- The X1D is not made for nature shooting (nor is any MF);
- The X1D is decent / OK for street shooting, but there are definitely better choices for that (same for any MF);
- The X1D is decent / OK for product shooting, but there definitely are better choices, both in 35mm and in MF both with or without choosing a tech camera option (i.e., X1D has no T/S lenses, has limited macro options, etc)
- The X1D is amazing for Landscape, best feature set and best UI for this kind of shooting that I have ever used (and I tried everything, pretty much);
- The X1D is amazing for studio / portraiture;
Coming to user interface:
- The X1D sports one of the simpler if not the simplest menu system I have ever used, everything is extremely logical and well placed;
- The X1D sports one of the simpler if not the simplest UI on camera body, just the Leica SL (and perhaps the M) are both simpler and as powerful (or more).
That said, the X1D has some quirks and imperfection, as everything else:
- Slow startup time (inconsequential for the kind of shooting it excels at);
- Missing focus scale distance, both physically on lenses and digitally;
- Missing live view histogram (almost inconsequential for the kind of shootings it excels at, just take a test shot and you'll be fine);
- Some random bugs, but almost any system has them (the only camera I used which just worked was the Leica SL, everything else had problems).
In the end, if you shoot landscape like I do, I think there is no better camera than the X1D on the market at the moment, Fuji included (Fuji is definitely the only alternative I'd consider today). If you shoot people in controlled environments, I think this hold true as well. If you shoot anything else, perhaps not only the X1D but DMF in general might not be your best bet.
Best regards,
Vieri
drunkenspyder
Well-known member
Superb summary Vieri. And even with my limited X1D experience, spot on. An X1D or—fingers crossed—its successor is very likely to be in my pack in Iceland.
I received this email from Alpa today, as I am sure many of you did. Alpa has their idiosyncrasies, but this is the sort of communication and incentive that a company does for its current and prospective customers in order to keep a relatively small market engaged. Just sayin’. ��
I received this email from Alpa today, as I am sure many of you did. Alpa has their idiosyncrasies, but this is the sort of communication and incentive that a company does for its current and prospective customers in order to keep a relatively small market engaged. Just sayin’. ��
Vieri, this is an excellent summary of the strengths and limitations of the X1D. It's sweet spot is slower, deliberate landscape shooting. All I ever really wanted was a digital MF version of a Mamiya 7 and its lenses for landscape shooting. The X1D has the essential goodness of the Mamiya 7 in terms of its simplicity of operation, though it is actually much more capable in many important ways (e.g., AF, achieving critical focus with magnified LV, dynamic range, and judging exposure).
Since the thread is about a new Hassy being on the way and you have now been working with the X1D for 6 months or so, I am curious what you would like to see in an X2D.
danlindberg
Well-known member
Vieri, your summery is exactly how I feel about the camera as well. For me it is great for my style of shooting but I can definitely see many others disappointed in lacking in certain areas.
I like thoughtful photography so slow startup and slow autofocus has no impact in my workflow. I only have three lenses (21/45/90) but these are all stellar. The design of the camera is to my liking, it sits well in my hand and is a goodlooking cam (yes, that is also factor to me). The weight is low and thus extremely portable.
I have had a couple of lockups and slot 1 SD card stopped working. I have also had some other erratic behavior with battery showing half, but when changing to a fresh battery the cam goes back to working normal again. So my main concern is reliability!
All in all I am happy with it and not least the result it can produce. I print 140x100cm and the end result on the wall is exactly the same as my former Credo 60 with tech lenses. In my book a very good result.
Next week (starting 19th) I have a joint exhibition in Sweden with 4000 visitors (it's every year, so we know this beforehand) and my 8 pieces on show are produced with the X1D. Technically they look great!
I am not in a hurry to get a Mk II but I would like it to feel more reliable.
I like thoughtful photography so slow startup and slow autofocus has no impact in my workflow. I only have three lenses (21/45/90) but these are all stellar. The design of the camera is to my liking, it sits well in my hand and is a goodlooking cam (yes, that is also factor to me). The weight is low and thus extremely portable.
I have had a couple of lockups and slot 1 SD card stopped working. I have also had some other erratic behavior with battery showing half, but when changing to a fresh battery the cam goes back to working normal again. So my main concern is reliability!
All in all I am happy with it and not least the result it can produce. I print 140x100cm and the end result on the wall is exactly the same as my former Credo 60 with tech lenses. In my book a very good result.
Next week (starting 19th) I have a joint exhibition in Sweden with 4000 visitors (it's every year, so we know this beforehand) and my 8 pieces on show are produced with the X1D. Technically they look great!
I am not in a hurry to get a Mk II but I would like it to feel more reliable.
vieri
Well-known member
Gentlemen,
Glad you found my X1D summary to the point.
Howard, I totally agree with you on the Mamiya 6/7: the X1D is the closest thing to a digital Mamiya 6/7 produced (to date, at least), but improved in so many ways. Lens selection (and all lenses are stellar, as Dan noted), ease of focussing, dynamic range, portability of camera & accessories (carrying 1 extra battery takes much less room that 5/10 rolls of film), and so on.
About your question, for my work the X1D is near perfect as it is; however, there are a few new features that I would like to see in the next iteration (pixel count aside). Top of my head:
- Faster startup (I personally don't care, but I can see that it might be important for others);
- A digital focus scale, i.e. like that on the Leica SL (showing distance of the point of focus, and the limits of both front focus and back focus;
- Live View histogram, with option to have it in RGB single channels, RGB together and white, as it is now for the playback histogram;
- "Sticky" playback mode between LCD & EVF (now when you take your eye out the EVF in playback mode, the camera defaults to live view: there night be a way to set it, but I didn't seem to find it);
- Focus magnification in the EVF (there night be a way to activate it, but I didn't seem to find it);
- Interval shooting with the counter starting at the end of the taken image, not at the beginning, which doesn't make much sense, if at all. I.e., consider a 30 seconds exposure that you want to take at 10 seconds intervals: setting the interval at 10 seconds will result in all photos taken one after the other, you'd have to set the interval at 40 seconds. This is annoying enough but doable; however, since the interval limit is 60 seconds, this bug makes it impossible to take, say, 90 seconds exposures at 60 seconds interval: they will be taken one after the other, no way around that;
- Unlabeled "cool" mode dial: that would take away even the last physical control on the camera body, allowing you to change everything from the app (again, i.e. like on the Leica SL);
Plus:
- Ironing the bugs, both in the camera and in the lenses;
- Better battery charger (i.e., I'd like the new double charger to be sold with the camera);
- Better app (the existing one is not that great, to say the least), and better app connection (the new Bluetooth registration should take care of this one); this would take away the need for tilting screens and the like, which personally I find would make the camera bulkier, uglier and weaker;
I am sure that there will be more, these are just what comes to mind real quick.
About the pixel count, while I would love to have more resolution for my work, ideally I would love it for Hasselblad to keep two models in their lineup:
- X1D 50-C Mark II, still 50 Mp but much faster;
- X2D 100-C, 100 Mp, as fast as the X1D is now would be just perfect;
I know, this is probably not going to happen - but one can dream
Best regards,
Vieri
richardman
Well-known member
Well, if we are allowed to dream, a square 56mmx56mm 40-50 megapixels back for the V system, especially seamless operations with the 203FE would be perfect.
A few comments on your great summary.Gentlemen,
Glad you found my X1D summary to the point.
Howard, I totally agree with you on the Mamiya 6/7: the X1D is the closest thing to a digital Mamiya 6/7 produced (to date, at least), but improved in so many ways. Lens selection (and all lenses are stellar, as Dan noted), ease of focussing, dynamic range, portability of camera & accessories (carrying 1 extra battery takes much less room that 5/10 rolls of film), and so on.
About your question, for my work the X1D is near perfect as it is; however, there are a few new features that I would like to see in the next iteration (pixel count aside). Top of my head:
- Faster startup (I personally don't care, but I can see that it might be important for others);
- A digital focus scale, i.e. like that on the Leica SL (showing distance of the point of focus, and the limits of both front focus and back focus;
- Live View histogram, with option to have it in RGB single channels, RGB together and white, as it is now for the playback histogram;
- "Sticky" playback mode between LCD & EVF (now when you take your eye out the EVF in playback mode, the camera defaults to live view: there night be a way to set it, but I didn't seem to find it);
- Focus magnification in the EVF (there night be a way to activate it, but I didn't seem to find it);
- Interval shooting with the counter starting at the end of the taken image, not at the beginning, which doesn't make much sense, if at all. I.e., consider a 30 seconds exposure that you want to take at 10 seconds intervals: setting the interval at 10 seconds will result in all photos taken one after the other, you'd have to set the interval at 40 seconds. This is annoying enough but doable; however, since the interval limit is 60 seconds, this bug makes it impossible to take, say, 90 seconds exposures at 60 seconds interval: they will be taken one after the other, no way around that;
- Unlabeled "cool" mode dial: that would take away even the last physical control on the camera body, allowing you to change everything from the app (again, i.e. like on the Leica SL);
Plus:
- Ironing the bugs, both in the camera and in the lenses;
- Better battery charger (i.e., I'd like the new double charger to be sold with the camera);
- Better app (the existing one is not that great, to say the least), and better app connection (the new Bluetooth registration should take care of this one); this would take away the need for tilting screens and the like, which personally I find would make the camera bulkier, uglier and weaker;
I am sure that there will be more, these are just what comes to mind real quick.
About the pixel count, while I would love to have more resolution for my work, ideally I would love it for Hasselblad to keep two models in their lineup:
- X1D 50-C Mark II, still 50 Mp but much faster;
- X2D 100-C, 100 Mp, as fast as the X1D is now would be just perfect;
I know, this is probably not going to happen - but one can dream
Best regards,
Vieri
A number of owners of the X1D have also expressed a desire for an upgraded and “speedier” X1D with a 50mp sensor. My understanding is that is very unlikely for both technical and marketing reasons. The technical specs on the current 50 mp Sony sensor are a major roadblock. Fuji has done a much better job than Hasselblad of optimizing the performance of the GFX with that sensor, but I think even Fuji has conceded that it’s the sensor that is holding them back. A “speedier” X1D is not just about the start up time. The shutter lag and AF performance are not much of an issue for my landscape work, but they do limit the usage envelope of the X1D. I would be more inclined to use an X2D as a general purpose travel camera if it were improved in these areas. From a marketing standpoint, I can’t see Hasselblad spending the limited R&D money to rework a camera with a 50 mp sensor. The next generation of FF cameras are coming soon enough with 60-70 mp sensors at a price point way below the selling price of the X1D today.
Does the digital focus scale on the SL work well? I asked Hasselblad multiple times for that feature but it has never appeared. It would be great if it works well.
I would like to see a dedicated and weatherproof remote cable release socket.
I agree about a live view histogram, but using raw data.
The X1D already has magnified live view in the EVF, and I use it all the time. Wonderfully implemented. I have my X1D set up on Manual Focus, and I have programmed the AF/MF button to bring up the AF point selection grid and the ISO/WB is programmed for “Zoom In”. I also programmed the AF-D button for back button AF. I hit the AF/MF button to show the AF point grid and pick where I want to focus. Then, I fit the ISO/WB button to zoom in in live view and manually focus. Alternatively, I can use the back button AF to AF on the selected AF point.
vieri
Well-known member
Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. Here my thoughts:
- Updated & speedier 50 Mp X1D. Technically, my understanding is that what held the camera's speed back is not just the sensor, but also the use of a run of the mill processor rather than a dedicated ASIC, something that caused the X1D to have to load its operating system at every power up. If this is the case, perhaps an ASIC could be used with the 50 MP sensor and we could have a X1D at least as fast as the Fuji GFX if not more, considering the progress in technology;
- That said, I agree with you that marketing-wise it would be a very bad move not to jump to the new 100 Mp sensor, even if I am not sure if this will translate, as you hope, in drastic improvements Re: speed in the areas you mentioned;
- The digital scale on the Leica SL worked very well; while I would not trust it to the inch, so to speak, I also would not trust to the inch any of the old manual lenses' physical scales, for that matter
Overall, I found that it was working very well for my purposes: having everything in focus from close up to infinity, give or take a few inches. You just needed to give the camera's reading a little leeway, and you were spot on;- Remote cable release: while I appreciate that perhaps I am an exception on this one, I don't really mind not having it. Thing is, even with a weather proof cable & socket you still have the problem of portrait orientation shooting (no room for the cable, or needing to fiddle with the L-Bracket to open some room), you'll need to carry the cable along, which is one more thing that can be lost or break, and in difficult weather I much rather not have to fiddle with extra bits and pieces of equipment (i.e., using gloves under strong frozen winds in winter's Iceland, or the like) . For 95% of my landscape work I use delayed release, which works fantastically well without the need for external cables, and for the remaining 5% I just use the shutter on camera, and I found that with my tripod+head combination, plus the absence of a mirror and the extremely sensitive trigger of the X1D, with some care I can get perfectly sharp results. That said, I think that the future is in bluetooth+wifi and a (better) app;
- Live View Histogram with RAW data would be fantastic, but I'll take a LV Histogram based on Jpg over nothing
- Thank you for the workaround Re: Magnification in the EVF, much appreciated; I have all buttons set as yours except for the ISO/WB, which I left at ISO/WB rather than Zoom In, but for the number of times I change ISO, it makes sense to use that button for magnification instead (which I need much more).
Best regards,
Vieri
Vieri, I reprogrammed the Depth of Field Preview button on the front of the camera to ISO/WB. I never used the Depth of Field Preview button.
vieri
Well-known member
Thank you for that
I think I'll just leave the DOF button as it is, I found myself using the DOF button a few times - not many, but certainly more than the times I had to change ISO, which I practically never do (and when I do, I don't need to have my eyes to the EVF).Best regards,
Vieri
FWIW I have my DOF button set to turn on/off the self-timer. Pretty useful for me when switching back and forth between handheld and tripod.Thank you for that
Best regards,
Vieri
vieri
Well-known member
Handheld?? What's that??? :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
Seriously now, that makes perfect sense if you mix shooting genres / shooting styles. For me, a little less so, since my camera lives on a tripod...
I never shoot handheld, and in the rare occasions when I do (generally with the second X1D body, as a sketchbook of sorts) I normally just use the self-timer and try to keep steady during the 3 sec delay: it works well for my purpose even if I move a tiny bit, and I get to do a little exercise in keeping my composition steady and precise during the delay.Best regards,
Vieri
:ROTFL: right?
My X1D is primarily a landscape cameras and also lives on the tripod probably ~95% of the time.
Occasionally I'll use it handheld for pics of family, pets, etc, but I have other systems that are better tools for those uses for me.
And having a back-side illuminated sensor.
drunkenspyder
Well-known member
I don't think a BSI is a dream. That's essentially table stakes for Hassy at this point.
What do you expect from BSI technology? It gave a third of a stop advantage on Sony's RX100 and the benefits are mostly with the smaller sensors.
No color issues when lens shifting
vieri
Well-known member
Indeed, I use my X1Ds pretty much only for my landscape work and for product shots / test shots for my blog; for street & people, besides the iPhone (sacrilege!), I am using a M2 with 28 Elmarit, 50 Lux & 90 Elmarit lenses, loaded with Tri-X most of the times
Best regards,
Vieri