GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Sorry, but :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :thumbs:
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Contemplating upgrading from IQ3-100 to IQ4-150 - Thoughts?
- Thread starter Jamgolf
- Start date
Hello Jawad,
On a tech cam the IQ4-150 is magical. My perspective is from upgrading from my 4-year old IQ180 and previously using the 45+ and 65+, all over the last 10 years on a Linhof, so it is different from your IQ3 considerations. But, if one considers that DB's are computers, ask yourself, When was the last time you decided to quit upgrading those?
The 4-150 is a game changer for tech cam users. I chose to not upgrade the 180 to the IQ3, but once DT and Doug came to town last Fall and I demoed, it was readily apparent that the 150 is on a different level and its not just about MB's. I received mine in December and having also changed tech cam platforms to Arca's, I am now tech-camming much more than the XF-ing, certainly no question when out in the wild for landscapes.
As mentioned by many, the LiveView for focusing is outstanding. Even on the dial-in focus on the Arca R and more so the Universalis, for confirming when tilting, its quick and flawless.
No doubt I'd like the Copal capability ASAP, but am really enjoying the process and outcome of the ES until Copal is made available. Who knows, I may not go back to the manual Copal...
As to smaller print sizes and no need for the larger sensor, the depth in the shadows and recapture of the highlights makes reduced sized image stand out. Its not always or just about the size, but the amount of information gathered within.
The biggest issue I've encountered is the back reveals my errors, mostly focusing, but also not having a perfectly clean lens. Smudges on the lens that aren't necessarily apparent to the eye become smeared pixels in the capture. While most of those were only apparent at 100% on the screen and not on a print, the back is requiring me to up my game. I now have multiple cleaning cloths in a Zip-Lock in my bag. But to reinforce, make sure your tech cam has great precision for focusing b/c this back will reveal the mistakes.
More than any other camera I've experienced over nearly 50 years, the IQ4-150 produces a WYSIWYG outcome; if the desired outcome is thoughtfully planned, the back will produce it - and with the added benefit that less post-production is necessary than anything experienced before.
I expect Phase will produce fixing and enhancing improvements w/ firmware updates, but in the meantime I am happily and more frequently shooting away with an elevated sense of thoughtfulness b/c I know the outcomes will simply be better.
On a tech cam the IQ4-150 is magical. My perspective is from upgrading from my 4-year old IQ180 and previously using the 45+ and 65+, all over the last 10 years on a Linhof, so it is different from your IQ3 considerations. But, if one considers that DB's are computers, ask yourself, When was the last time you decided to quit upgrading those?
The 4-150 is a game changer for tech cam users. I chose to not upgrade the 180 to the IQ3, but once DT and Doug came to town last Fall and I demoed, it was readily apparent that the 150 is on a different level and its not just about MB's. I received mine in December and having also changed tech cam platforms to Arca's, I am now tech-camming much more than the XF-ing, certainly no question when out in the wild for landscapes.
As mentioned by many, the LiveView for focusing is outstanding. Even on the dial-in focus on the Arca R and more so the Universalis, for confirming when tilting, its quick and flawless.
No doubt I'd like the Copal capability ASAP, but am really enjoying the process and outcome of the ES until Copal is made available. Who knows, I may not go back to the manual Copal...
As to smaller print sizes and no need for the larger sensor, the depth in the shadows and recapture of the highlights makes reduced sized image stand out. Its not always or just about the size, but the amount of information gathered within.
The biggest issue I've encountered is the back reveals my errors, mostly focusing, but also not having a perfectly clean lens. Smudges on the lens that aren't necessarily apparent to the eye become smeared pixels in the capture. While most of those were only apparent at 100% on the screen and not on a print, the back is requiring me to up my game. I now have multiple cleaning cloths in a Zip-Lock in my bag. But to reinforce, make sure your tech cam has great precision for focusing b/c this back will reveal the mistakes.
More than any other camera I've experienced over nearly 50 years, the IQ4-150 produces a WYSIWYG outcome; if the desired outcome is thoughtfully planned, the back will produce it - and with the added benefit that less post-production is necessary than anything experienced before.
I expect Phase will produce fixing and enhancing improvements w/ firmware updates, but in the meantime I am happily and more frequently shooting away with an elevated sense of thoughtfulness b/c I know the outcomes will simply be better.
Hello Jawad,
On a tech cam the IQ4-150 is magical. My perspective is from upgrading from my 4-year old IQ180 and previously using the 45+ and 65+, all over the last 10 years on a Linhof, so it is different from your IQ3 considerations. But, if one considers that DB's are computers, ask yourself, When was the last time you decided to quit upgrading those?
The 4-150 is a game changer for tech cam users. I chose to not upgrade the 180 to the IQ3 and found I used my Linhof less and less, but once DT and Doug came to town last Fall and I demoed, it was readily apparent that the 150 is on a different level and its not just about MB's. I received mine in December and having also changed tech cam platforms to Arca's, I am now tech-camming much more than the XF-ing, certainly no question when out in the wild for landscapes.
As mentioned by many, the LiveView for focusing is outstanding. Even on the dial-in focus on the Arca R and more so the Universalis, for confirming when tilting, its quick and flawless.
No doubt I'd like the Copal capability ASAP, but am really enjoying the process and outcome of the ES until Copal is made available. Who knows, I may not go back to the manual Copal...
As to smaller print sizes and no need for the larger sensor, the depth in the shadows and recapture of the highlights makes reduced sized image stand out. Its not always or just about the size, but the amount of information gathered within.
The biggest issue I've encountered is the back reveals my errors, mostly focusing, but also not having a perfectly clean lens. Smudges on the lens that aren't necessarily apparent to the eye become smeared pixels in the capture. While most of those were only apparent at 100% on the screen and not on a print, the back is requiring me to up my game. I now have multiple cleaning cloths in a Zip-Lock in my bag. But to reinforce, make sure your tech cam has great precision for focusing b/c this back will reveal the mistakes.
More than any other camera I've experienced over nearly 50 years, the IQ4-150 produces a WYSIWYG outcome; if the desired outcome is thoughtfully planned, the back will produce it - and with the added benefit that less post-production is necessary than anything experienced before.
I expect Phase will produce fixing and enhancing improvements w/ firmware updates, but in the meantime I am happily and more frequently shooting away with an elevated sense of thoughtfulness b/c I know the outcomes will simply be better.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Oh yes ... :ROTFL:
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
I think that skipping versions pays dividends long term. Let’s face it, none of the current or older MFD are anything less than excellent.
Hello Jawad,
On a tech cam the IQ4-150 is magical. My perspective is from upgrading from my 4-year old IQ180 and previously using the 45+ and 65+, all over the last 10 years on a Linhof, so it is different from your IQ3 considerations. But, if one considers that DB's are computers, ask yourself, When was the last time you decided to quit upgrading those?
Pemihan
Well-known member
:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL: Ken, who are you trying to fool? It's not gonna work and you know it but right now you are in denial mode.
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If I had the $£€ I'd do it, as for my purposes this is easily the most lens friendly DB since the 60MP and 40MP ones.
(As an aside, I don't think there'll be a big leap in MP in the next generation - probably to something like 180MP - but with a stacked sensor giving ~20x greater read out speed (compared to the 150) - which means the ES would finally be a workable replacement for a mechanical one in most situations).
Jim
(As an aside, I don't think there'll be a big leap in MP in the next generation - probably to something like 180MP - but with a stacked sensor giving ~20x greater read out speed (compared to the 150) - which means the ES would finally be a workable replacement for a mechanical one in most situations).
Jim
I’ve bought 3 cameras since buying the last camera I’d ever need and will probably be looking for a digital back in the next couple years. Such is life. Such is Dante :ROTFL:
From what I’ve read so far it seems most everyone that has made the IQ3 to IQ4 move is loving the image quality and usability enhancements, despite current firmware hiccups, and the IQ4 would make op’s 23mm Rodie shine.
It’s already been said, but by virtue of being a GetDPI member, OP probably knows resistance is futile and I think the question is “when” and not “if”. If it were me I’d probably wait at least until the firmware gets further along, but I think it would depend on ones spring/summer shooting plans.
Good luck with your decision op!
dave.gt
Well-known member
The early bird gets the worm!:thumbup:
The second mouse gets the cheese.:thumbs:
Worm or cheese? Hmmm.....:ROTFL:
So glad I don't have to make the upgrade decision, but I sure am waiting anxiously to see the great results that will surely be shared here on the forum!
Can't wait!
The second mouse gets the cheese.:thumbs:
Worm or cheese? Hmmm.....:ROTFL:
So glad I don't have to make the upgrade decision, but I sure am waiting anxiously to see the great results that will surely be shared here on the forum!
Can't wait!
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
It's more lens friendly than the 40mp and 60mp backs.
Jamgolf
Member
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and feedback.
As usual excellent contributions and some friendly banter
Its a mix of objective and subjective but I'll try to summarize some of the salient points that have been brought up so far:
and last but not least:
As usual excellent contributions and some friendly banter
Its a mix of objective and subjective but I'll try to summarize some of the salient points that have been brought up so far:
- there’s no question that the IQ4 offers higher *potential* image quality
- it’s also faster at doing just about everything
- More pixels = more color information therefore resulting in higher color accuracy and nuances
- potentially gain movements and 0 color casts ... eliminating the need for lcc
- long exposures in the daylight without the use of ND filters in camera and capture as a raw file
- diffraction is never a disadvantage of a higher resolution sensor, only a limiter of when a higher resolution sensor will have an advantage
- focus peaking in live view works well and is helpful to judge focus cone when using tilt/swing
- possibility of free firmware feature update that had not been thought of yet
- can finally use a phase camera like a regular camera. Focus peaking, live view, ES, speed of the double tap zoom, no dark frame(!)
- shoot tethered, the USB C connection is a huge improvement
- user interface is much better
- possibility of a Global shutter (we can hope)
- On a tech cam the IQ4-150 is magical ... a game changer for tech cam users
- LiveView for focusing is outstanding
- IQ4-150 produces a WYSIWYG outcome
and last but not least:
offcourse this will be the last camera we'll ever need/buy
Oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... etc. etc.It's more lens friendly than the 40mp and 60mp backs.
IMHO there's not been anything more lens friendly than the P45+ (and backs that used the same sensor - was it a Kodak one - can't remember). You could throw anything at it - even the S/K 24mm shifted to beyond the edge of the IC - and all was good. And it could do great (really) long exposures too. Anyone wanting to get into MFD on the 'cheap' couldn't go wrong with picking a used one of these up.
That said, I have to admit I've not seen a shifted S/K 24mm on the 150, but I will quite happily eat my left foot if it works as well.
Jim
I suspect (but without any data!) that if you downscaled the 150 MP BSI image to 45 MP the IQ4 would be at least as good. Not into cannibalisn though
Pemihan
Well-known member
So what are you, 99 years old:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
offcourse this will be the last camera we'll ever need/buy
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and feedback.
As usual excellent contributions and some friendly banter
Its a mix of objective and subjective but I'll try to summarize some of the salient points that have been brought up so far:
- there’s no question that the IQ4 offers higher *potential* image quality
- it’s also faster at doing just about everything
- More pixels = more color information therefore resulting in higher color accuracy and nuances
- potentially gain movements and 0 color casts ... eliminating the need for lcc
- long exposures in the daylight without the use of ND filters in camera and capture as a raw file
- diffraction is never a disadvantage of a higher resolution sensor, only a limiter of when a higher resolution sensor will have an advantage
- focus peaking in live view works well and is helpful to judge focus cone when using tilt/swing
- possibility of free firmware feature update that had not been thought of yet
- can finally use a phase camera like a regular camera. Focus peaking, live view, ES, speed of the double tap zoom, no dark frame(!)
- shoot tethered, the USB C connection is a huge improvement
- user interface is much better
- possibility of a Global shutter (we can hope)
- On a tech cam the IQ4-150 is magical ... a game changer for tech cam users
- LiveView for focusing is outstanding
- IQ4-150 produces a WYSIWYG outcome
and last but not least:
offcourse this will be the last camera we'll ever need/buy
One correction there will be no global shutter in this back.
I was talking about the people saying it will be the last back they buy (me included)
Nutcracker
New member
The IQ4 150 is so effective on tech cameras including quite large movements, not needing LCC that if funds allow, I do not think there is much if anything to gain by waiting for more improve to arrive. Life is short, little additional value to gain by delay , I thinkThanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and feedback.
As usual excellent contributions and some friendly banter
Its a mix of objective and subjective but I'll try to summarize some of the salient points that have been brought up so far:
- there’s no question that the IQ4 offers higher *potential* image quality
- it’s also faster at doing just about everything
- More pixels = more color information therefore resulting in higher color accuracy and nuances
- potentially gain movements and 0 color casts ... eliminating the need for lcc
- long exposures in the daylight without the use of ND filters in camera and capture as a raw file
- diffraction is never a disadvantage of a higher resolution sensor, only a limiter of when a higher resolution sensor will have an advantage
- focus peaking in live view works well and is helpful to judge focus cone when using tilt/swing
- possibility of free firmware feature update that had not been thought of yet
- can finally use a phase camera like a regular camera. Focus peaking, live view, ES, speed of the double tap zoom, no dark frame(!)
- shoot tethered, the USB C connection is a huge improvement
- user interface is much better
- possibility of a Global shutter (we can hope)
- On a tech cam the IQ4-150 is magical ... a game changer for tech cam users
- LiveView for focusing is outstanding
- IQ4-150 produces a WYSIWYG outcome
and last but not least:
offcourse this will be the last camera we'll ever need/buy
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
We have a bit of cross talk going here (pun intended), no doubt in part due to the confusing naming scheme of Phase One backs in the ~2008 era and earlier.
I'm using the following shorthand:
- 40mp backs like P40+ and IQ140
- 39mp backs like P45 and P45+
My statement was re the P40+ and IQ140 ("40mp backs"). From everything I've seen from my testing with the IQ4 150mp it is more flexible with lenses (re color cast, falloff, and artifacts) than the P40+ and IQ140 were.
I honestly do not remember enough about the P45/P45+ ("39mp backs") characteristics on tech cameras to compare to the IQ4 150mp. My memory of that ~2007 era has faded and the conclusions I have from testing in that era would have not had the same point of comparison as I would have now. I would have to go do an IQ4 vs P45+ test specifically to see how they compare.
It's funny how quickly we become accustomed to new tools and the workflows they provide. I was training Jarob Ortiz, the Head Photographer of the National Park Service this week (the "New Ansel Adams") on an IQ3 100mp on an Arca Swiss tech camera. It was funny how annoying the dark frame and LCC were, when, just last year, they barely bothered me at all. Don't get me wrong: the IQ3 was and still is, and for years to come still will be, a fantastic image making machine. But once you get used to the IQ4 anything else feels downright sluggish in workflow in comparison.
Of course, they were previously shooting sheet film, so the IQ3 was a quantum leap forward in workflow. That appointment was bittersweet for me as I think there's a good chance it will be the last institutional client I'll be helping to transition from film; they were our "last remaining target" for years, and now they are happily in the digital camp.
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That's also the attraction and danger of smartphones for photography and industry, respectively!