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Thread: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

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    Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    I would like to share my experiences working with the Fuji 50s (also applies to 50r) on a technical camera. I wanted to increase the pixel count slightly and decided to shift in portrait position. The slightly smaller size of the sensor allows for greater shifts without stressing lens performance.

    This applies to any technical camera - I happen to use an Actus. The Actus can shift to 22mm (the shift stop limit) left and right which just happens to equate to a16X9 format. A very slight crop is needed as the vertical doesn’t quite fit perfectly (probably would have needed 24mm shift) but this is very negligible. 4 shots are necessary for this format size and depending on the lens used and the lens type an LCC may be necessary for the two outer shift images. I have found that my 72mm needs LCC’s for the two outer shift images. This is extremely simple with the Fuji vs. a Phase as all that is necessary is to place the diffuser in front of the lens and shoot - no need to manually set shutter speed for the correct exposure as all of that is accomplished automatically. Of course all of this requires C1 which I know all of you have…..

    I have tried this with all of my Schneider lenses 72, 100, 120, 150, 180 with outstanding results. I am able to use the short rail on my Actus for all of these lenses so the entire camera system is really small. Even the extreme edges of the most shifted images are very sharp with all lenses.

    So what is the real benefit of shifting this way vs. shifting in landscape orientation? Real Estate!! The lens FOV is increased substantially which, for me, is needed if I want a lens wider than 72mm.

    Focus and parallelism are both critical. It doesn’t matter how you determine parallelism but it is critical (not done by any type of detent unless trusted). The same with focus. I have found that its best to focus with the outer edges of the maximum shifts and then check again for center sections. It’s also good to have a feel for how a lens reacts to the Fuji peaking. A little practice goes a long way.

    Hope this is helpful for any Fuji/Tech users.

    Cheers…….

    Victor
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I would like to share my experiences working with the Fuji 50s (also applies to 50r) on a technical camera. I wanted to increase the pixel count slightly and decided to shift in portrait position. The slightly smaller size of the sensor allows for greater shifts without stressing lens performance.

    This applies to any technical camera - I happen to use an Actus. The Actus can shift to 22mm (the shift stop limit) left and right which just happens to equate to a16X9 format. A very slight crop is needed as the vertical doesn’t quite fit perfectly (probably would have needed 24mm shift) but this is very negligible. 4 shots are necessary for this format size and depending on the lens used and the lens type an LCC may be necessary for the two outer shift images. I have found that my 72mm needs LCC’s for the two outer shift images. This is extremely simple with the Fuji vs. a Phase as all that is necessary is to place the diffuser in front of the lens and shoot - no need to manually set shutter speed for the correct exposure as all of that is accomplished automatically. Of course all of this requires C1 which I know all of you have…..

    I have tried this with all of my Schneider lenses 72, 100, 120, 150, 180 with outstanding results. I am able to use the short rail on my Actus for all of these lenses so the entire camera system is really small. Even the extreme edges of the most shifted images are very sharp with all lenses.

    So what is the real benefit of shifting this way vs. shifting in landscape orientation? Real Estate!! The lens FOV is increased substantially which, for me, is needed if I want a lens wider than 72mm.

    Focus and parallelism are both critical. It doesn’t matter how you determine parallelism but it is critical (not done by any type of detent unless trusted). The same with focus. I have found that its best to focus with the outer edges of the maximum shifts and then check again for center sections. It’s also good to have a feel for how a lens reacts to the Fuji peaking. A little practice goes a long way.

    Hope this is helpful for any Fuji/Tech users.

    Cheers…….

    Victor

    Victor, what do you mean by:

    "no need to manually set shutter speed for the correct exposure as all of that is accomplished automatically"

    Do you mean that you would have the Fuji in TV mode?


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    Steve Hendrix/CI
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    I was referring to the fact that the Phase DB on a tech camera requires a manual exposure adjustment for the LCC image due to the darkening of the LCC disc/plate. The fuji takes care of all of that automatically. Very little time is required.....

    Victor
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I was referring to the fact that the Phase DB on a tech camera requires a manual exposure adjustment for the LCC image due to the darkening of the LCC disc/plate. The fuji takes care of all of that automatically. Very little time is required.....

    Victor

    Hi Victor, thanks for the reply. What I was asking is what precisely you meant by taking care of it automatically. How are you doing this? Are you shooting in a program mode, or ... ?


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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    I normally operate my 50s in auto shutter mode. All lenses that are attached or used on a tech camera are always in manual mode. So, the LCC exposure is set automatically by the camera and there is no need to fiddle around with adjustments. I have found it to be very quick......

    A little off topic.... I have been really concerned about the clearance for the 100s when used on an Actus in landscape orientation but I do believe it is doable while maintaining full rise which is my most used movement. It does require using the second/lower mount point for the lens and then raising the rear standard 10mm to match. This allows for no fall but full rise. Fall can easily be handled by remounting the lens to the upper mount point and then lowering the rear standard 10mm to match. Fall, if needed is then available. Of course none of this is needed if the Tech Camera is an Arca but that's a whole different animal.

    Cheers.....

    Victor

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Victor,

    Glad to hear you are liking the system so far!
    Blake Griffin - Channel Manager - Cambo USA
    Cambousa.com l Email l US Dealer List

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I would like to share my experiences working with the Fuji 50s (also applies to 50r) on a technical camera. I wanted to increase the pixel count slightly and decided to shift in portrait position. The slightly smaller size of the sensor allows for greater shifts without stressing lens performance.

    This applies to any technical camera - I happen to use an Actus. The Actus can shift to 22mm (the shift stop limit) left and right which just happens to equate to a16X9 format. A very slight crop is needed as the vertical doesn’t quite fit perfectly (probably would have needed 24mm shift) but this is very negligible. 4 shots are necessary for this format size and depending on the lens used and the lens type an LCC may be necessary for the two outer shift images. I have found that my 72mm needs LCC’s for the two outer shift images. This is extremely simple with the Fuji vs. a Phase as all that is necessary is to place the diffuser in front of the lens and shoot - no need to manually set shutter speed for the correct exposure as all of that is accomplished automatically. Of course all of this requires C1 which I know all of you have…..

    I have tried this with all of my Schneider lenses 72, 100, 120, 150, 180 with outstanding results. I am able to use the short rail on my Actus for all of these lenses so the entire camera system is really small. Even the extreme edges of the most shifted images are very sharp with all lenses.

    So what is the real benefit of shifting this way vs. shifting in landscape orientation? Real Estate!! The lens FOV is increased substantially which, for me, is needed if I want a lens wider than 72mm.

    Focus and parallelism are both critical. It doesn’t matter how you determine parallelism but it is critical (not done by any type of detent unless trusted). The same with focus. I have found that its best to focus with the outer edges of the maximum shifts and then check again for center sections. It’s also good to have a feel for how a lens reacts to the Fuji peaking. A little practice goes a long way.

    Hope this is helpful for any Fuji/Tech users.

    Cheers…….

    Victor
    Hi Victor, thanks for your post, it comes in good timing for me!

    I'm looking at moving away from my 4x5 film setup and migrate over (back to) a digital set up. However after experiencing a technical camera, it would be so difficult moving back knowing about lens movements - front and rear standard movements overall.

    So the GFX 50R is the "digital back" id go for, likely coupled with a Cambo Actus. Where my confusion lies is with the lens and their mm rating (relative to 35mm). Based on some research, the Schneider Digitar lenses seem to be a good mix of quality and value. Are they the ones you're using?

    Translating Full frame 35mm <> 4x5 lens was pretty straight forward. Put simply:

    150mm (4x5) = 50mm (FF)
    90mm (4x5) = 30mm (FF)

    You get the picture.

    But what would a Schneider Digitar lens, say 120mm what equivalent to in 35mm Full frame? (how would it fit in my simple chart above)
    I just need to get my bearings set to work out what to get. Ultimately 3 lenses would do me fine - Wide, Normal, Long.

    I do own five 4x5 lenses starting at 75mm up to 240mm. I wasnt planning to use them on the Fuji due to the resolving power, so to speak.

    Thanks in advance.

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by alen View Post
    Hi Victor, thanks for your post, it comes in good timing for me!

    Translating Full frame 35mm <> 4x5 lens was pretty straight forward. Put simply:

    150mm (4x5) = 50mm (FF)
    90mm (4x5) = 30mm (FF)

    You get the picture.

    But what would a Schneider Digitar lens, say 120mm what equivalent to in 35mm Full frame? (how would it fit in my simple chart above)
    I just need to get my bearings set to work out what to get. Ultimately 3 lenses would do me fine - Wide, Normal, Long.
    Alen,
    The short answer is the equivalents are about the same when going from 4x5 to the 50r sensor. Your numbers above were approximates that overestimate the equivalent focal length in 35mm by a little. Applying them to the 50r will underestimate the equivalent focal length by a little.

    The longer answer is it depends on what you consider "equivalent."

    The modern definition of this calculation is to look at the image diagonal and compare the ratio from format to format. 4x5 film had some frame edges that were not exposed, so the real image area was about 94mm x 120mm, which is a diagonal of 152mm. FF (24x36) has a diagonal of 43.267, or a ratio of 152/43.3 ~3.5:1. Technically, going from 4x5 to FF:
    150mm = 43mm, not 50mm
    90mm = 25.5mm, not 30mm.

    The sensor on the 50r is 33x44, which is a 55mm diagonal for a FF ratio of ~1.27:1, and a 4x5 ratio of 2.77:1
    150mm (on 4x5) = 54.1mm (on 50r)
    90mm (on 4x5) = 32.4mm (on 50r)
    120mm (on 4x5) = 43.3mm (on 50r)

    The equivalent you are probably more interested in is the 1.27 ratio of 50r to FF:
    150mm (on 50r) = 118mm (on FF)
    90mm (on 50r) = 71mm (on FF)
    120mm (on 50r) = 94mm (on FF)

    The problem with this definition based on diagonals is that it assumes a constant format ratio. Going from a ratio of 4x5 to 2x3 isn't all that close, so the ultimate angle of view depends on how you crop the images, if at all, and the perception of that angle of view in different format ratios.

    An older definition of the "standard" lens was the focal length that equals the diagonal. That is probably where your original approximation comes from, although the real "standard" lens in FF is 43mm, not 50mm. I think we can blame Leica for that one!

    The appropriate "wide angle" view was considered a focal length equal to the short film dimension: 94mm in 4x5, 24mm in FF. Again, that matches your original 90mm approximation pretty closely.

    The good news in all this is there is an easy way to remember FF equivalents when using the 50r sensor: If you want to know what a lens on the 50r is equivalent to in FF terms, it is pretty close to 0.8. Just take the focal length, multiply by 4 and then divide by 5. "4/5" should be easy for a long-time 4x5 shooter to remember!

    150x4 = 600
    600/5 =120

    90x4 =360
    360/5 = 72

    120x4 = 480
    480/5 = 96

    Dave
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Alen....

    Dave has thoroughly covered the format conversions so no need for me to comment. I do use all Schneider lenses (35,60,72,100,120,150,180) all mounted on Cambo copal 0 lens mounts. The 35 will not reach infinity on the Actus. The 60mm will reach infinity but with barely any movements. From 72mm or longer full movements are available. All of my lenses from 72mm on up perform flawlessly on the Actus with short rail. Even my 180 will reach infinity using the short rail but close focus is limited to around 8 feet - which is no big deal to me as that lens is used for reach. You must use a 4 fold bellows when using longer lenses on the short rail so don't buy anything else.

    You must, must, must be religious in making sure that the standards are parallel. I always double check before going out on a shoot. It's a simple process using machinists levels and takes only a minute or two. Can easily be done in the field. I barely ever use the front standard movements so once set I am careful not to disturb them. I also use a Lowepro 11 X 18 cm lens case to store the Actus in - fits like a glove.

    You will enjoy the Actus.......

    Victor
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Alen,
    The short answer is the equivalents are about the same when going from 4x5 to the 50r sensor. Your numbers above were approximates that overestimate the equivalent focal length in 35mm by a little. Applying them to the 50r will underestimate the equivalent focal length by a little.

    The longer answer is it depends on what you consider "equivalent."

    The modern definition of this calculation is to look at the image diagonal and compare the ratio from format to format. 4x5 film had some frame edges that were not exposed, so the real image area was about 94mm x 120mm, which is a diagonal of 152mm. FF (24x36) has a diagonal of 43.267, or a ratio of 152/43.3 ~3.5:1. Technically, going from 4x5 to FF:
    150mm = 43mm, not 50mm
    90mm = 25.5mm, not 30mm.

    The sensor on the 50r is 33x44, which is a 55mm diagonal for a FF ratio of ~1.27:1, and a 4x5 ratio of 2.77:1
    150mm (on 4x5) = 54.1mm (on 50r)
    90mm (on 4x5) = 32.4mm (on 50r)
    120mm (on 4x5) = 43.3mm (on 50r)

    The equivalent you are probably more interested in is the 1.27 ratio of 50r to FF:
    150mm (on 50r) = 118mm (on FF)
    90mm (on 50r) = 71mm (on FF)
    120mm (on 50r) = 94mm (on FF)

    The problem with this definition based on diagonals is that it assumes a constant format ratio. Going from a ratio of 4x5 to 2x3 isn't all that close, so the ultimate angle of view depends on how you crop the images, if at all, and the perception of that angle of view in different format ratios.

    An older definition of the "standard" lens was the focal length that equals the diagonal. That is probably where your original approximation comes from, although the real "standard" lens in FF is 43mm, not 50mm. I think we can blame Leica for that one!

    The appropriate "wide angle" view was considered a focal length equal to the short film dimension: 94mm in 4x5, 24mm in FF. Again, that matches your original 90mm approximation pretty closely.

    The good news in all this is there is an easy way to remember FF equivalents when using the 50r sensor: If you want to know what a lens on the 50r is equivalent to in FF terms, it is pretty close to 0.8. Just take the focal length, multiply by 4 and then divide by 5. "4/5" should be easy for a long-time 4x5 shooter to remember!

    150x4 = 600
    600/5 =120

    90x4 =360
    360/5 = 72

    120x4 = 480
    480/5 = 96

    Dave
    Thanks. Or multiply by 0.8.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I do use all Schneider lenses (35,60,72,100,120,150,180) all mounted on Cambo copal 0 lens mounts. The 35 will not reach infinity on the Actus. The 60mm will reach infinity but with barely any movements. From 72mm or longer full movements are available. All of my lenses from 72mm on up perform flawlessly on the Actus with short rail. Even my 180 will reach infinity using the short rail but close focus is limited to around 8 feet - which is no big deal to me as that lens is used for reach. You must use a 4 fold bellows when using longer lenses on the short rail so don't buy anything else.

    You will enjoy the Actus.......

    Victor
    Here is where I can be helpful! Please see the attached cheat sheet which should give you some ideas as to which lenses will work with the GFX50 series. This will be updated sometime in the near future to reflect the GFX100...but for now we are still doing some testing and maths.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Blake Griffin - Channel Manager - Cambo USA
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    I find it amusing that anyone would even want to do this

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I find it amusing that anyone would even want to do this

    Use a technical/view camera???


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    Last edited by Steve Hendrix; 8th April 2019 at 11:09.
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I find it amusing that anyone would even want to do this
    How to win friends and influence people!

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I would like to share my experiences working with the Fuji 50s (also applies to 50r) on a technical camera. I wanted to increase the pixel count slightly and decided to shift in portrait position. The slightly smaller size of the sensor allows for greater shifts without stressing lens performance.

    This applies to any technical camera - I happen to use an Actus. The Actus can shift to 22mm (the shift stop limit) left and right which just happens to equate to a16X9 format. A very slight crop is needed as the vertical doesn’t quite fit perfectly (probably would have needed 24mm shift) but this is very negligible. 4 shots are necessary for this format size and depending on the lens used and the lens type an LCC may be necessary for the two outer shift images. I have found that my 72mm needs LCC’s for the two outer shift images. This is extremely simple with the Fuji vs. a Phase as all that is necessary is to place the diffuser in front of the lens and shoot - no need to manually set shutter speed for the correct exposure as all of that is accomplished automatically. Of course all of this requires C1 which I know all of you have…..

    I have tried this with all of my Schneider lenses 72, 100, 120, 150, 180 with outstanding results. I am able to use the short rail on my Actus for all of these lenses so the entire camera system is really small. Even the extreme edges of the most shifted images are very sharp with all lenses.

    So what is the real benefit of shifting this way vs. shifting in landscape orientation? Real Estate!! The lens FOV is increased substantially which, for me, is needed if I want a lens wider than 72mm.

    Focus and parallelism are both critical. It doesn’t matter how you determine parallelism but it is critical (not done by any type of detent unless trusted). The same with focus. I have found that its best to focus with the outer edges of the maximum shifts and then check again for center sections. It’s also good to have a feel for how a lens reacts to the Fuji peaking. A little practice goes a long way.

    Hope this is helpful for any Fuji/Tech users.

    Cheers…….

    Victor
    Victor,
    Thanks for starting this thread, it has been very interesting discussion to follow.
    Thanks again,
    Greg

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I find it amusing that anyone would even want to do this
    I enjoy watching YouTube videos of a guy that builds a log cabin with hand tools.
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks. Or multiply by 0.8.
    So many responses from many of you, thank you!
    Thank you too Victor, for being helpful but also allowing me to somewhat hijack your thread BTW, you should share some pics of your setup!

    In short, if I use the following multiplier factor of 0.8, then what im looking for in a nutshell is:

    Wide:
    Large Format 4x5 = 90mm
    Full Frame 35mm = 28mm
    Fuji GFX 50 series = 35mm

    Normal:
    LF = 150mm
    FF = 50mm
    FG = 60mm

    Long:
    LF = 300mm
    FF = 100mm
    FG = 120mm

    These are not 100% accurate, but should be near enough i think.
    Im a bit concerned with the wide angle options, and their range of movement for front tilt.

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMBOUSA View Post
    Here is where I can be helpful! Please see the attached cheat sheet which should give you some ideas as to which lenses will work with the GFX50 series. This will be updated sometime in the near future to reflect the GFX100...but for now we are still doing some testing and maths.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	140753Click image for larger version. 

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    This is great, thanks for sharing!
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Thought I would show how I make sure that the standards are parallel on my Actus (there are other methods). It would be a major improvement for the Actus if there was a locking system built into the front standard (not detents). Maybe someday.......

    The image below shows the GFX adapter and one of my Digitar lenses attached to the camera. The Starrett Machinists levels I use are extremely accurate and ultra sensitive. To level in the field is very easy and quick. Ideally once the camera is brought to a parallel position it will not stray unless disturbed by accident. Two levels are not necessary....... You must have a tripod head that can allow the camera to adjust to a vertical position. The levels are positioned in the 'Tilt' orientation. They would have to be turned 90 degrees to check for 'Swing'.

    Hope this helps.....

    Victor
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Is there even a possibility on an Alpa?

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Is there even a possibility on an Alpa?
    It appears so.

    https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-serie...x-view-camera/

    "The Cambo ACTUS-GFX is derived from the ACTUS-Mini camera system, designed for mirrorless cameras, such as the Sony Alpha 7 series & Fuji-X camera bodies."

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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Is there even a possibility on an Alpa?

    Not at the moment, but never say never.


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  24. #24
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Victor, is this the setup you would buy today if you were starting this process over? I want the ability to shift in a medium format platform and this seems like a potential solution.
    Thanks,
    Greg

  25. #25
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMBOUSA View Post
    Here is where I can be helpful! Please see the attached cheat sheet which should give you some ideas as to which lenses will work with the GFX50 series. This will be updated sometime in the near future to reflect the GFX100...but for now we are still doing some testing and maths.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That is a valuable mine of info for me.

    And what parts would you need to buy if you owned an early Actus for Sony with a longer rail and bellows and wanted to use a Fuji?
    They are just tools for a job.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  26. #26
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Is there even a possibility on an Alpa?
    The design of the Fuji doesn't work well with a pancake camera (with anything other than long lenses) as the grip seems to get in the way. The mirrorless H/B is a better option, hence:

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  27. #27
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Haag View Post
    Victor, is this the setup you would buy today if you were starting this process over? I want the ability to shift in a medium format platform and this seems like a potential solution.
    Thanks,
    Greg
    Greg.... I started out with an Alpa and became very alarmed at the pricing for lenses which I could purchase in copal 0 for substantially less. Same lens, same shutter the only difference was the Alpa mount which was, to me, really inflated in price. So when the Actus was introduced I became interested and after a couple of years finally purchased one and have never regretted it. It's not perfect but nothing is. It is, however, small and light and with care very predictable. Switching from one camera platform to another is fast and easy. A DB can be used with the short rail and still has the ability to close focus to 8 feet with my 180mm lens. This means that I can travel with the short rail and any of my lenses with either a GFX or DB. The GFX is limited to 72mm for full movements but other solutions are around the corner. Shifting with a GFX or DB is lens dependent for ultimate quality results so I also Pan when the situation allows.

    Victor
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  28. #28
    Member CAMBOUSA's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    That is a valuable mine of info for me.

    And what parts would you need to buy if you owned an early Actus for Sony with a longer rail and bellows and wanted to use a Fuji?
    The ACB-980 Upgrade Kit (SKU: 99100980) will contain the new rear standard, a front standard raiser block, and the GFX bayonet adapter needed for use with the GFX. The bellows and rail you have now will both work without needing to be replaced. If you want to use still use your sony as well, add an AC-78E adapter (9910078E) and you are in business.

    Your Cambo dealer should have pricing for these parts, and they generally are very easy to come by!
    Blake Griffin - Channel Manager - Cambo USA
    Cambousa.com l Email l US Dealer List

  29. #29
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    Thanks, I have found the kit on a few uk dealers websites
    They are just tools for a job.
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  30. #30
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    Re: Fuji 50S/R on a Technical Camera

    nvm

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