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Tilt/Shift option for Leica S
- Thread starter Greg Haag
- Start date
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Can you clarify your use case, as this matters a lot.
For example, are you looking for tilt/swing/rise/fall/shift in a wide-angle landscape application, or in a long-lens macro product photography context?
Greg Haag
Well-known member
Good point Doug, sorry I left that out. I am primarily interested in shift in preferably a 24mm to 28mm range lens.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
For a lens from one system to adapt to another you need a few things to be true:
1) Way to trigger exposure (e.g. a shutter in the lens, body, or sensor)
2) The ability to mount the lens close enough to the sensor for your desired focus distance (e.g. infinity for landscape)
3) Some way to control the lens aperture, if shooting other-than-wide-open is important
In this case #2 would be the problem. With wide angle lenses, even those with moderate retrofocal designs, the flange distance (the required distance behind the lens required to achieve infinity focus) will be problematic.
We don't sell Leica, so I couldn't be specific on that particular platform, but in general when looking at wide angles on an SLR (mirror'd) design you can't place the lens the desired distance from the sensor, especially once you want to add mechanisms for tilt/shift.
The Mamiya 50mm Shift lens should be adaptable (not as wide as you want). Maybe other more Leica-centric users have some ideas.
Alternatively a digital back (which has a totally flush sensor) or a mirrorless camera (which has space reserved in front of the sensor, but not as much as on an SLR) are inherently better suited for adaptation to a tech camera or view camera when the use case is wide angle lenses at infinity (e.g. landscape/architecture etc).
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You are probably aware of the 120mm Schneider T/S adapted for Leica S. I have it, a great lens, but not wide angle.
I have seen this device which should make it possible to use other lenses, but have never tried it:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...es_castbal_tilt_shift_bellows_attachment.html
- Erling
I have seen this device which should make it possible to use other lenses, but have never tried it:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...es_castbal_tilt_shift_bellows_attachment.html
- Erling
Greg Haag
Well-known member
Very interesting, thank you!
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
That's why I asked what his use case was as the first question. For wide-angle work the novoflex adapter is not a solution for an SLR like the Leica S* nor is the 120 T/S. That novoflex system would be well suited if his need were macro product photography for example.
*Since we (DT) don't sell Leica I'll be extra careful here to note that I'm not disparaging the Leica S in any way; this is a matter of physics of SLR bodies and the depth created by their mirror box that applies to any SLR of any brand/make/model. Only by removing the mirror box (as is the case with a digital back or mirrorless camera) do you have the physical room to adapt wider lenses and movements in front of the sensor.
John_McMaster
Active member
When Leica bought Sinar they created a standard for the P2 or P3 that takes the S body. Not going to get a particularly wide though, probably 47mm unless buying a modern Rodenstock.
https://sinar.swiss/products/cameras/
john
https://sinar.swiss/products/cameras/
john
Greg Haag
Well-known member
John, thank you very much for posting this! Unfortunately for what I do I need 35mm or wider, preferably 28mm or 24mm.
Thanks again,
Greg
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Greg - the Leica S camera body itself, as noted by Doug, is going to be your limitation when it comes to using lenses that wide in tilt/shift applications. For a fuller example of the factors, see below:
https://captureintegration.com/seeing-sideways-with-the-cambo-actus/
The concepts in this article would also apply to the NovoFlex CastBal Tilt/Shift Bellows Attachment (or the Alpa version, both of which we also sell). There are simply some limitations that are at play when using a capture device that incorporates a camera body mounted to a til/shift device. Digital backs do have an advantage in getting around this limitation by negating the camera body entirely (primarily for use with modern wide view camera lenses).
https://captureintegration.com/cambo-actus-db-big-changes-for-a-tiny-view-camera/
But short of digital backs, certainly mirrorless bodies help alleviate some of the issues thicker bodies bring up when it comes to wide angle tilt/shift solutions for distance capture.
Steve Hendrix/CI
Greg Haag
Well-known member
Steve,
Thank you very much for posting, I will take a look. Based on all the feedback at this point, it does not seem that there is a good option for wide angle T/S on the Leica S.
Thanks,
Greg
Here is your best option (I have nothing to do with the seller) : https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264073060913
Greg Haag
Well-known member
Great idea, as far as I can tell, the Leica R is the only Leica adaptor. It feel like I must be trying to put a square peg in a round hole? Broadly speaking, so far, the following appear to be my options:
1. a mirrorless camera with adaptor and something like 24mm Canon t/s
2. mirrorless camera on something like Cambo AACTUS-GFX shown in link below
https://www.adorama.com/cam99010882...wVs9NnHCmKWumrQ0N1gzXMY1KqWkveQIaAsdjEALw_wcB
3. digital back on technical camera
4. going back to something like Canon 5dsr and 24mm T/S
Stuart Richardson
Active member
This might be another less desirable answer, but are you sure you cannot get away with Leica's own superb 24mm lens and using digital perspective corrections? You can do a lot these days with Photoshop and Lightroom and their guided transformations, and my guess is that even with the softening from the transformations, Leica's 24mm will be so much sharper than any other lens you can bolt on to the S, that it will still be sharper once you have squared everything.
Greg Haag
Well-known member
Stuart, that is a very good suggestion. I do have the 24mm lens and love it, my current problem is that in some instances by the time I correct in post my file is too small for our enlargement. I think when the S3 comes out it would resolve this issue. Thanks for the suggestion!
Miller
Member
Have you considered the Hasselblad HTS?
As far as I know this should work with the Leica S-adapter H:
http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-S/S-Lenses/S-Adapter/S-Adapter-H
Important question would be if the combination adapter - HTS supports the HCD 24mm (not documented for this lens). It would give you a 24 mm without tilt/shift and a 36 mm with tilt/shift, as the HTS is a 1.5 converter.
Both the HCD and HTS need digital lens correction, which is available in Phocus, but only for Hasselblad files as far as I know. Probably not available in other raw converters.
Very expensive combination.
As far as I know this should work with the Leica S-adapter H:
http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-S/S-Lenses/S-Adapter/S-Adapter-H
Important question would be if the combination adapter - HTS supports the HCD 24mm (not documented for this lens). It would give you a 24 mm without tilt/shift and a 36 mm with tilt/shift, as the HTS is a 1.5 converter.
Both the HCD and HTS need digital lens correction, which is available in Phocus, but only for Hasselblad files as far as I know. Probably not available in other raw converters.
Very expensive combination.
The HTS includes internal optics which increase the focal length by 1.5 so the 24 becomes 36 which still is pretty useful. I'm not sure but I think Leica addresses problems with the use of HTS in their operating instructions for the Leica S-H Adapter.
A Mamiya 645 lens to Leica S Adapter will permit the use of the 50mm Mamiya Shift lens as well as the 45mm T/S lens from Urkaine.
I wonder if the 24mm T/S lens shown on Ebay post will actually cover the Leica S format. I also wonder if that clever guy could adapt the 24mm Canon II T/S Lens?
A Mamiya 645 lens to Leica S Adapter will permit the use of the 50mm Mamiya Shift lens as well as the 45mm T/S lens from Urkaine.
I wonder if the 24mm T/S lens shown on Ebay post will actually cover the Leica S format. I also wonder if that clever guy could adapt the 24mm Canon II T/S Lens?
M
mjr
Guest
Morning
I left a large S system a few years back for exactly the issue you are having, I got a large architecture contract which I just couldn't get the S to perform on. The 24 I really struggled with, had 3 copies of the lens and simply couldn't get sharo corners on any, in the end Leica said they couldn't get it better, this was a few years ago so maybe they have tweaked the design.
In the end I went to a tech camera and costed the project to cover the change, I lost a lot from getting rid of the S because it's still my favourite camera, but it just couldn't do what I needed. I now have a GFX, extremely sharp lenses, much easier to use all round, far cheaper, wider shooting envelope but to be honest, as a package the S is a better camera from an image output point of view when shooting within its sweet spot.
Sorry no real suggestions!
Mat
I left a large S system a few years back for exactly the issue you are having, I got a large architecture contract which I just couldn't get the S to perform on. The 24 I really struggled with, had 3 copies of the lens and simply couldn't get sharo corners on any, in the end Leica said they couldn't get it better, this was a few years ago so maybe they have tweaked the design.
In the end I went to a tech camera and costed the project to cover the change, I lost a lot from getting rid of the S because it's still my favourite camera, but it just couldn't do what I needed. I now have a GFX, extremely sharp lenses, much easier to use all round, far cheaper, wider shooting envelope but to be honest, as a package the S is a better camera from an image output point of view when shooting within its sweet spot.
Sorry no real suggestions!
Mat