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Thread: afd II vs III shutter lag?

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Ok -- my AFD II shutter lag is making me crazy.
    Is AFD III that much better?

    Eric

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Yes it is, but still not DSLR short. Best I can estimate is that the lag on the AFD3 with newer firmware is about half the lag on the AFD2 -- but make sure the AFD3 has current firmware as it did improve the shutter lag a bit.
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Yes it is, but still not DSLR short. Best I can estimate is that the lag on the AFD3 with newer firmware is about half the lag on the AFD2 -- but make sure the AFD3 has current firmware as it did improve the shutter lag a bit.
    Minority report: I have the III and the lag is a royal pain: even with MUP and MF set, it still makes a noise like R2D2 scratching his *** before it'll condescend to take a shot. You'll only get the decisive moment if you're psychic. This has started to annoy me so much that I am using my P45+ back more and more on a cambo because there's no appreciable shutter lag with a Schneider!

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Sounds like the afd III is better but not great.
    I will wait until I hear and/or get to see the new mamiya camera body.

    I don't expect 5d lack of shutter lag but the shutter lag on the AFD II is just plain ridiculous. Especially when you've got a $14k back attached.. oy..
    Makes me pine for my days shooting with a Hassy 500CM.

    Eric

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    Member jdbfreeheel's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    My hope is that tashley is exaggerating a bit. My AFDIII still has a lag but it is much faster than the AFDII. My style is such that I've just taken it in account and press the shutter button a micro-second sooner than I do with my Sony a900.

    Granted, on my Horseman, the Rodenstock has no shutter lag, so I guess it's all relative.

    Can the AFDIII shutter get faster? YES Please. Is it abominable? Not in my opinion.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdbfreeheel View Post
    My hope is that tashley is exaggerating a bit. My AFDIII still has a lag but it is much faster than the AFDII. My style is such that I've just taken it in account and press the shutter button a micro-second sooner than I do with my Sony a900.

    Granted, on my Horseman, the Rodenstock has no shutter lag, so I guess it's all relative.

    Can the AFDIII shutter get faster? YES Please. Is it abominable? Not in my opinion.
    I guess questions of exaggeration are all relative but my feeling is that with the mirror already up and focus already manually set, there's no excuse whatsoever for the quarter second of 'I'm trying to focus, oops, just remembered I don't need to' noises the camera issues. Granted, my work is mostly landscape type of stuff but in Iceland recently I was trying to catch waves breaking at very precise moments and it was really annoying! I can see why the shutter can't be as fast as an M8 but I can't see why it can't compete with a decent 35mm DSLR, especially with the mirror up. The most recent camera FW update was supposed to improve things but to me the difference was marginal.

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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    I find the III much better than the II, but again, I use it for landscapes and almost never find the slight delay of any consequence. Still, last summer I did a lot of macro work on insects and then I did have to learn to anticipate by a microsecond!

    http://www.billcaulfeild-browne.com/...dit_large.html

    Bill

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    The AFD II (S)lag is just insane.
    As an experiment I took my AFD II out on Sunday to take kid pics.
    Ridiculous.. the kids could bob and weave out of the focal plane (or the whole frame) before the shutter actually fired. Feels like an eternity from trigger to capture.

    Nope.. my AFD II is for landscape and product work only. For now.
    Until that new phamiya body comes out (PLEASE!)

    Eric

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Tim: Which firmware do yo have in your Phase AFD3 body?
    Jack
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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    FWIW, I got a chance to test this, finally....

    Aptus-II 6, tethered to 17" MBP:

    AFDII, 80mm D, manual focus, set to Continuos drive, finger down: 47 frames/ 1 minute
    AFDIII, 80mm D, manual focus, set to Continuos drive, finger down: 48 frames/ 1 minute

    As a reference, AFi-II 6 (same sensor as the Aptus-II 6) with the same settings does 59 frames/ 1 minute (64 with mirror up).

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Member Clawery's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Tim: Which firmware do yo have in your Phase AFD3 body?
    Jack has a great point. If you have the latest firmware for your AFD III, you will notice a decrease in shutter lag and an increase in the auto-focus speed.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Need 1.4 or above
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Now RZ67? Re: afd II vs III shutter lag

    Out of curiosity-- I've never shot with an RZ67.

    I am looking to do handheld outdoor shooting but the AFD shutter lag is too much to bear.

    How would an RZ67 feel?
    Manual focus of course. But can you shoot aperture priority?
    Sorry for the relatively newbie quality to this question.

    Eric

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    Re: Now RZ67? Re: afd II vs III shutter lag

    Quote Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
    Out of curiosity-- I've never shot with an RZ67.

    I am looking to do handheld outdoor shooting but the AFD shutter lag is too much to bear.

    How would an RZ67 feel?
    Manual focus of course. But can you shoot aperture priority?
    Sorry for the relatively newbie quality to this question.

    Eric
    It is true the RZ is fully mechanical on the release and so the "lag" is only as much as the time it takes you to complete the push motion (i.e. instant and tactile). Also A-Priority is certainly possible.

    However, be fully aware this camera is a BEAST. Throw on the power winder and the Prism finder and you're looking at one big honking camera. If you haven't shot the AFDIII with recent firmware yet it's something you should do before looking at other more-exotic solutions to your problems.

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  15. #15
    duncan.e
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Excuse my ignorance, but is the shutter lag evident when using a film back, or just when using a digital back?

    Duncan

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    On my AFD II it does not matter. Shutter lag is horrible and same with digital or film.

    Eric

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Tim: Which firmware do yo have in your Phase AFD3 body?
    Hey Jack,

    Sorry, didn't see this question when you posted it.

    I have the current and latest version - it went back to Phase a few weeks ago... and I think there has been less shutter lag in normal use but in MUP use I haven't noticed a change. To be clear: I use MUP with single point AF and single rather than continuous mode. I then switch the lens clutch to MF, put the mirror up, wait for the tripod to damp and the moment to be right and then press the cable release. The body then makes a half to quarter second (I'm estimating here) whirring noise as if it's trying to AF, then takes the shot.

    Best

    Tim


    EDIT: just looked it up: it's Version 1.5
    Last edited by tashley; 3rd May 2009 at 09:33.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    A FWIW comment on AF points...

    I found that choosing just the center was both faster and more accurate focus with my AFD 2 body, however with my AFD 3 body, I find having all three selected is faster and very accurate --

    ,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  19. #19
    jingq
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    question: how's the shutter lag on the AFD III compared to a H3D or H2 body?

  20. #20
    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by duncan.e View Post
    Excuse my ignorance, but is the shutter lag evident when using a film back, or just when using a digital back?

    Duncan
    Correction: I put the film back on my AFD II. Almost no shutter lag. A joy! But I don't shoot film anymore...

    Put on my P45 back: Shutter lag reappears. When you depress the shutter (with P45 back on) you hear a little "zzzt zzzt" noise in the camera and then shutter fires. Almost like the camera wants to refocus, but doesn't

    Just found a used AFD III firmware 1.3 which I will send to Mamiya USA for updating and re-report.

    Eric

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
    Correction: I put the film back on my AFD II. Almost no shutter lag. A joy! But I don't shoot film anymore...

    Put on my P45 back: Shutter lag reappears. When you depress the shutter (with P45 back on) you hear a little "zzzt zzzt" noise in the camera and then shutter fires. Almost like the camera wants to refocus, but doesn't

    Just found a used AFD III firmware 1.3 which I will send to Mamiya USA for updating and re-report.

    Eric
    I hate to say it but you will find the same exact thing. Drives me nutty. I call it the divisive moment!

    T

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Well -- I am hopeful. I tried the AFD III before I sent it off for upgrade, and it already seems better than the AFD II shutter lag. It has been mentioned that the firmware of 1.3 and higher decreases shutter lag further.

    Anyone know why there is so MUCH more sLag with the digital back compared to filmback?
    Is it poor camera-back communication or an acutual limitation imposed by the digital back?

    Eric

  23. #23
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
    Well -- I am hopeful. I tried the AFD III before I sent it off for upgrade, and it already seems better than the AFD II shutter lag. It has been mentioned that the firmware of 1.3 and higher decreases shutter lag further.

    Anyone know why there is so MUCH more sLag with the digital back compared to filmback?
    Is it poor camera-back communication or an acutual limitation imposed by the digital back?

    Eric

    I don't have wide enough experience to answer that, sorry - but I do think it's a real minus for the system. On an AFD III with digiback, even with mirror lockup and manual focus, you'll still get the pzzzittt delay.

    Grrr!

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    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Quote Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
    Correction: I put the film back on my AFD II. Almost no shutter lag. A joy! But I don't shoot film anymore...

    Put on my P45 back: Shutter lag reappears. When you depress the shutter (with P45 back on) you hear a little "zzzt zzzt" noise in the camera and then shutter fires. Almost like the camera wants to refocus, but doesn't

    Just found a used AFD III firmware 1.3 which I will send to Mamiya USA for updating and re-report.

    Eric
    i see the same thing with the film back on my AFD II. I use a Leaf 75s, and get the longer delay there as well

  25. #25
    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    Happy to report that the AFD III with v 1.5 firmware is MUCH better.
    The shutter lag is much shorter I can say that the
    camera with P45 is now a viable portrait solution for me.
    In fact, just did a series of portraits yesterday with great results.

    Mind you, a 5d still blows the doors off it when it comes to responsiveness, but that is apples & oranges.

    Eric

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: afd II vs III shutter lag?

    I was just waiting for you to report this. Been through all three bodies and all the firmware upgrades on the III myself and it is a big improvement with 1.4 or higher. It could still be faster no question but it is a lot easier to work with now. Just for the record though we still need a new body and that is my message to Phase and they know it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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