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The Problem with Medium Format - Aging Motifs

dave.gt

Well-known member
As a photographer, who has not wanted larger, sharper images with higher DR, etc.? Classic Medium Format and MFD has delivered what we all want and yet we want more right?:) and fantastic lenses!...

It is not uncommon for lenses to cost more than some of us have as annual income. Technology and quality come at quite a price and deliver the Holy Grail of Dante's world. Wow! Fantastic times we live in, right? Yes, indeed.:)

But not so fast... do all of your subjects really ask for (want/need) extreme images? Is it really desirable?

Sure, there are many artists using film and digital photography for impressionistic images and they are wonderful. But they are not the only ones who should think about less resolution/sharpness.

I have become weary lately of all the photoshop work required when I am asked or when I volunteer to shoot even simple casual images of my friends and family, some of them who are either older or simply aging physically and are never really happy with photographs of themselves.

Getting old sucks. Do they want to be reminded of their aging and, deep down, their loss of youth and yet another confirmation of their inner sense that life is near the end? MF and especially MFD only makes things worse without a lot of hard work in post-processing.

This weekend, I attended a small family gathering at my sister's home in North Georgia to meet our cousin and her husband. We had not seen them in more than half a century, having lost contact for so many reasons. They are a generation ahead of me, so I was only able to directly relate to some of their delightful remembrances and experiences while we poured over hundreds of vintage family photos. We spent a delightful afternoon together and it was good for the soul.:thumbup:

When the day was nearly over, I wanted to shoot just a few images to remember our first reunion and to share with them. Knowing that the Hasselblad would be overkill and not wanting to wait for film processing, I selected the D850 to use hoping I could tame the extreme rendering of the aging process. It did not work.

Upon returning home, I spent a whole day in post-processing delicately working to make three images that I felt comfortable in sharing. A full day's work, for three images. We are all somewhat happy with those final images, but there has to be a better way.

Casual shooting indoors or not, usually means difficult lighting, either too harsh or too dim, in the wrong direction, etc. and it is nearly impossible to get a clean image without a lot of work.

Perhaps there is a lens that would help making nicer images of those subjects with an abundance of wrinkles, blemishes and other physical attributes that could use some taming. Perhaps, I should stick with film.

After all, the image of my grandfather in 1891 has withstood the test of time.
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
How about a soft focus lens/filter, either circular or 100mm x 100mm?

Has anyone tried these?:)
 

foveon

Member
long time ago I had the Mamiya 150SF in my bag, including some discs, various sizes drilled, to put inside the lense to controll the grade of softness, worked quite well.
Or just use kind of Vaseline on a filter^^
 

Bugleone

Well-known member
When I was a young photographer,...quite a long time ago now, it was common practice to use stretched muslin in front of the lens when things looked too harsh or graphic. The beauty of this as against the vaseline approach (which was seen as 'amateur') was that the muslin had it's own texture rather than simply reducing acutance or focus.....
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Negative clarity to taste ...

It avoids the glamour look.

However ... wrinkles blemishes and other age related attributes are wonderful signs
of character, resilience and grace ... dismissed by many in the present culture but
do nothing to diminish the beauty of the soul whose form they grace.

A small off-camera flash or strobe works wonders if used with care.

Sounds like a beautiful weekend.

Best regards,

Bob
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Seems like it's more of an ego problem then gear, but if you must, i'd say shoot film or try a speed light with a soft box. The grain of 400 ISO masks the fine details and flaws, plus, you'll impress the older crowd that film is still around.
 

Bugleone

Well-known member
".......you'll impress the older crowd that film is still around."

......I don't think so! Many of us "older crowd" have all too graphic memories of struggle with grain....whisper 'HP7 in D76' quietly young man! It's the young and ignorant that prefer film qualities nowadays!....whereas it's us old-farts who are agog with digital beauty and facility......
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
Seems like it's more of an ego problem then gear, but if you must, i'd say shoot film or try a speed light with a soft box. The grain of 400 ISO masks the fine details and flaws, plus, you'll impress the older crowd that film is still around.
Yes, the film solution will work, and the H5 or any of my vintage Nikons will certainly suffice.

The smaller format is probably better anyway using aperture control quickly in casual shooting. If we were in a controlled environment where anything goes, it would be easier to tame the digital tyranny, but I need to catch the casual candid images.

Hmmm... I have 120 Ilford loaded in the H5 right now... now I have an inspired moment to plan another afternoon with family! Cool!:)
 

pegelli

Well-known member
Perhaps there is a lens that would help making nicer images of those subjects with an abundance of wrinkles, blemishes and other physical attributes that could use some taming. Perhaps, I should stick with film.
My suggestion would be to use "any old lens", preferably w/o coating on "any mirrorless camera" (sensor size doesn't really matter in this case). You could even try an old projector lens, but usually they don't have an aperture mechanism, so can only be shot wide open.

To my taste (which doesn't say much in a case like this) this gives a more natural "less harsh" result then anything you can do with post processing, muslin, vaseline, softars or other soft focus mechanisms. The resulting rendering of such a lens wouldn't be too far off from that image of your grandfather that you like so much.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I like the rendering qualities of some older lenses, but then for some subjects the razor sharpness of the best modern lenses on high resolution sensors is just fine.

Age lines, etc, bring out the character of the person and all the Life that they've experienced. I prefer to make photographs that include them, not obliterate them.


Fuji GS645S Wide 60 Professional
Ilford XP2 Super film
Processed in Agfa Rondinax 60 using HC-110 1:49 for 10 min

full rez:
https://live.staticflickr.com/7927/46874877324_540d9c5afd_o.jpg

I'm proud of my age and accept my Death will come. I have felt the cold breath of Age already, and while I do not necessarily welcome it on, I accept that it has come and will, in the end, consume me. In the meantime, I will do all that I can to live.

Decide what you want in a photo. Buy and use equipment that allows you to achieve that. Simple. :D

G

From The Farthest Shore by Ursula K. Le Guin:

"You will die. You will not live forever. Nor will any man nor any thing. Nothing is immortal. But only to us is it given to know that we must die. And that is a great gift: the gift of selfhood. For we have only what we know we must lose, what we are willing to lose….That selfhood which is our torment, and our treasure, and our humanity, does not endure. It changes; it is gone, a wave on the sea. Would you have the sea grow still and the tides cease, to save one wave, to save yourself? Would you give up the craft of your hands, and the passion of your heart, and the light of sunrise and sunset, to buy safety for yourself—safety forever?"
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
I like the rendering qualities of some older lenses, but then for some subjects the razor sharpness of the best modern lenses on high resolution sensors is just fine.

Age lines, etc, bring out the character of the person and all the Life that they've experienced. I prefer to make photographs that include them, not obliterate them.


Fuji GS645S Wide 60 Professional
Ilford XP2 Super film
Processed in Agfa Rondinax 60 using HC-110 1:49 for 10 min

full rez:
https://live.staticflickr.com/7927/46874877324_540d9c5afd_o.jpg

I'm proud of my age and accept my Death will come. I have felt the cold breath of Age already, and while I do not necessarily welcome it on, I accept that it has come and will, in the end, consume me. In the meantime, I will do all that I can to live.

Decide what you want in a photo. Buy and use equipment that allows you to achieve that. Simple. :D

G

From The Farthest Shore by Ursula K. Le Guin:

"You will die. You will not live forever. Nor will any man nor any thing. Nothing is immortal. But only to us is it given to know that we must die. And that is a great gift: the gift of selfhood. For we have only what we know we must lose, what we are willing to lose….That selfhood which is our torment, and our treasure, and our humanity, does not endure. It changes; it is gone, a wave on the sea. Would you have the sea grow still and the tides cease, to save one wave, to save yourself? Would you give up the craft of your hands, and the passion of your heart, and the light of sunrise and sunset, to buy safety for yourself—safety forever?"
Sorry, you and I have not communicated very well on this one... my apologies. But your film image is the softer look they would prefer.

It is not me that is concerned with wrinkles. My family and friends want photos where the effects of aging are not so much character! I want them to be happy, not making the first comment about how awful they look. They are not photographers, or philosophers, or anything, just sweet ladies who dress, fix their hair, and use makeup to feel good about themselves when we go to events and such. How many times have I gotten requests to photoshop their images and make lines, wrinkles, double chins and blemishes disappear? A lot!!! I guess they don't get the Wabi Sabi thing...:)

I prefer to get close to their desires SOOC rather than spend an hour on each image in post processing.

In thinking back, I never had that problem with film. Hmmm... again, it seems that may be one solution.:)
 

Leigh

New member
Perhaps, I should stick with film.
Yep.

Photographers have been getting good indoor shots on film for over a century. :grin: :thumbs:

All of the time, effort, and money expended on digital are just an attempt to duplicate that.

- Leigh
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
And yet film aficionados would argue that film has more resolution that the equivalent size digital.
Not really a fair statement for this thread... do, no need for me to respond to it, other than to say what is obvious;

It is the same old film vs digital trolling topic that is so tiring. I use both film and digital and have for many years. They are just different experiences and tools for self-expression.

Sometimes I want to express the bleeding razor sharpness of certain images. Sometimes I want impressions, and other times I want different looks.
In this case, I want my family and friends to be happy with the images of themselves. So, I am working toward a different look than I am used to making for simple casual events.

Will I shoot MFD? Film? Digital back? Or some other format? Like Godfrey said... pick a path.

Time will tell which path I choose.:)
 

Mark C

Well-known member
Apart from all the things I enjoy photographing, I occasionally get imposed upon to take family pics, especially when my wife's family meet up. The women all want to look younger and have no visible wrinkles etc (not so easy when they're all over 50!) and it's my thankless task to try to make them all look nearer 25. Now I'm the first to admit that I'm no portrait photographer but a couple of photoshop tips I've picked up to give a quick fix in this regard is firstly a reduction in default contrast (try -25 to start with) when you open the image in ACR followed by low opacity healing brush working on the image at 100% crop on a separate layer going over any skin irregularities. 5 minutes work can often flatter a worried lady!
I take the point about MF often being too sharp, I've found the same, but remember it's a lot easier to soften a sharp image then to try and sharpen a soft image, or so I've found anyway. Best to stick to landscapes and wildlife whenever possible :)
 
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