advice on technical cameras for landscapes please?

[Massive Si]

Hi
I was hoping to get some advice / comments on using tech cameras for purely landscape work

a bit of background:
I have multiple formats for different types of photography, I use Hasselblad H with Phase One back for studio (portrait) work and canon 1dx for anything that moves

For landscapes, which is where I am wanting to spend most of my time, I have used mostly 4x5 large format camera. But I want to back away from the film (and developing) side and go mostly digital. just keeping film for the odd fun play.

Originally I was looking at getting a more suitable digital back for my Hasselblad, for example a P65+ or IQ (I love Capture one, but am not totally tied to it)
I then pondered a mirrorless camera such as the X1D or GFX 50s. I love the look & feel of the X1D but am reluctant to buy into that system at the moment, and the GFX is due for a new release (gfx 100?) at the end of this month, but I cant justify buying a 100mp camera

So whilst I can get a more suitable back for my Hasselblad and keep all my existing setup. I know my H camera is getting on a bit, and Hassy lenses arent cheap, and I dont get the tilt/shift
the X1D or GFX are attractive in that they are super portable, perfect for long treks at 3am to get that sunrise

on the other hand, I love the technical aspect of photography just as much as the artistic side, and with the mirrorless/Hassy options I lose all the controls i had with 4x5 (front & rear movements)

so this leads me to wonder if a technical camera (i.e. cambo) would be the way to go?

I could try it out with my (ill suited) Phase One back and potentially either upgrade the back to a more suitable one or even get a GFX 50s/X1D which would give me both worlds of a complete compact mirroless system or mount it on a tech camera depending on mood and circumstances


So after all my rambling above, I wondered if anyone could help offer any thoughts on using technical cameras for purely landscape work. I dont mind a bit of 'on location' setup. I am quite prepared to take the time to get the images I want.

am I likely to get anything like the movements I loved on my 4x5? are there any brands / models to look at over another?
I am very new to technical cameras and thought I would ask here as I continue my research

thanks

 

[RobbieAB]

Which Phase One back do you have? Why don't you consider it suited for use on a technical camera?

You also don't give any indication of your budget, which would be a factor in any recommendations.

 

[Massive Si]

Which Phase One back do you have? Why don't you consider it suited for use on a technical camera?

You also don't give any indication of your budget, which would be a factor in any recommendations.

I currently have a P30+

budget is fluid (depending on what the kids have broken around the house or what work the wife wants doing to it ) but probably about $10,000
Am very happy to buy used if I can

 

[kdphotography]

While the Fuji GFX is an excellent camera system (as I am sure the X1D is also), it lacks the ability of movements like a technical camera. I have the GFX (recently converted to full spectrum) and though I find it to be a very capable system, *we* have not bonded as I have with my Cambo WRS 1600, which imho, provides more satisfaction from a purely photographic endeavor point of view. This subjective enjoyment, imho, is far too often overlooked. This is Dante's realm after all.

I think your budget is slightly constrained and with a little wiggle room, you could easily upgrade your MFDB, and enjoy the benefits in studio and on location doing landscapes, adding a technical camera and lens.

Before psuedo-retirement---I think we share some of the same approaches. I used a Phase XF and IQ3 100 for portrait work. The IQ3 does double duty on my Cambo for landscapes. Whilst the P30+ is an incredibly forgiving and wonderful MFDB, its micro lenses limit use with the type of movements that a technical camera is capable of achieving. You could easily upgrade your P30+ MFDB in studio and add a Cambo or similar technical camera. You need only add the appropriate adapter plates for each camera system. Ideally, a CMOS based MFDB would be great for the technical camera for its live-view capabilities, but also not necessarily needed---and probably require more than adding just some wiggle room to your stated budget. Considering your budget, I would look towards a CPO MFDB. Look at some of the offerings at dealers. There are several good CPO MFDBs at Capture Integration and probably more not even yet listed on their site. IQ180 would work well in studio and on a technical camera. Cambo is a good choice considering budget---it probably isn't going to happen with an Alpa. A good technical camera and a single lens such as the Rodenstock HR40 t/s would probably serve you quite well until you can add another lens or two.

You'll find the jump up to the IQ interface to be a huge advantage over the P-series both in your normal work and on location.

Ken

 

[Massive Si]

Thanks for that reply

realistically I am winding down the studio/portrait side of things. So apart from the odd family Christmas photo (all our Christmas' seem to be odd) I dont really have a need for a studio system anymore

 

[kdphotography]

....

realistically I am winding down the studio/portrait side of things. So apart from the odd family Christmas photo (all our Christmas' seem to be odd) I dont really have a need for a studio system anymore

Never admit that. Well, that's how I go ahead and justify my landscape kit. :ROTFL:

 

[vjbelle]

Like Ken I also have a 3100 and a 50s and a Cambo Actus. The 50s produces outstanding files - so much so that even though at 'only' 50MP I find myself using it almost all the time. The only limitation with the 50s on an Actus is the lack, so far, of a wider lens than my 72mm Schneider Digitar. There will be lens solutions in the near future. The Fuji GFX lenses are outstanding. I can't imagine anyone not being impressed with their sharpness. I do lots of stitching with the 50s as all of my lenses 72mm and above can utilize major movements and still stay mostly in the sweet area of the image circle - unlike shifting on a 54X44 sensor.

The Actus is light with lots of options for using various DSLR's or Mirrorless Medium Format. The GFX files are easily printable to 40 inches which is my usual size on the long side. Topaz software coupled with the great files from the GFX have opened new capabilities for a 50MP file.

There are other options such as pancake cameras (I also own an Alpa) but there is a hefty premium for lenses.

Hope this helps......

Victor

 

[darr]

I have an ALPA Max that does not get much use as I prefer my ALPA TC.
Shoot me a message here if interested.

Kind regards,
Darr Almeda

 

[dougpeterson]

Strongly suggest testing the variety of options in person.

For example B3K Digital is a great Canadian dealer knowledgable in tech cameras.

Tech cameras are partially technical/feature/specification driven, but a big part of it is the physicality. Whichever direction you go will determine the lens/adapter/accessory mount you're using for many years, so you don't want to jump in without really knowing you're going down your preferred path.

 

[tcdeveau]

Alpa, Cambo, and Arca-Swiss are probably the brands used by members here the most.

I'd try to demo some in person if you can as they each have advantages and disadvantages, and usually ppl seem to choose one brand over the other based on personal preference or unique use cases. I went the Alpa route but I was also impressed with the Cambo WRS 1600 I tested out.

I think there's a P1/tech cam dealer in toronto (B3K maybe?) where you can demo?

 

[GrahamWelland]

+1 regarding the technical camera recommendations. Pancake cameras are very convenient vs say the Actus but if you’re used to 4x5 then that may not matter. I feel that a lot of the differentiators between Alpa, Cambo, Arca have become less important now that we have CMOS sensors with decent live view.

If you can, I would definitely go down the IQ CMOS route as they are all a game changer as far as technical cameras are concerned with live view.

As mentioned, do some hands on research before jumping in because swapping systems is very expensive later on. Likewise I’d recommend starting out with an anchor wide angle lens such as a 32 or 40mm and build a system out from there as you need. Most people get away with a couple of lenses like 40/70 or 32/90 and maybe add a longer 120/150 at some point.

 

[Boinger]

I have a iq4150 with a cambo actus and an X1d with cambo actus adapter too.

I pack according to what my objectives for the trip are.

For example I recently went to australia with the family. I didn't think I would get much serious shooting in so I left most of tech cam kit at home and took my X1d with the actus and it worked wonderfully well.

I don't know about the GFX but with the X1d I can get about 5mm Total movement from a Rodenstock Hr40, and it will focus to infinity. The reason for the 5mm is that your are inside the cambo actus X1d adapter, but inside the camera body. As long as you set your stop correctly there is no need to worry much about damage to the camera.

One of the reasons I preferred the X1d to the GFX is the size and weight of the kit compared to a GFX kit. I had recently tried a GFXR with a bunch of lenses and it just felt too big to me. Due to the size and weight if I am going on a serious photo trip I can pack the X1d and 2 lenses along with my full tech cam kit and it's not that heavy.

Serves as a nice grab and go camera and it can be a backup for my digital back if it fails.

But I would wait to see what hasselblad announces in terms of their next camera before jumping on it.

But the X1d and the actus do work quite well.

 

[danlindberg]

I would go camera/back with electronic shutter possibility, that opens up for more options regardless of type/brand of tech cam/system. I am personally an Alpa shooter and would not change that for anything but you will hear the same from other users of other systems. The big brands are all good, they are all with pros & cons. It's a question with what system you bond and of course where you yourself see the pros outweigh the cons!

I have a new Alpa 12 Plus waiting on my kitchentable at home. Right now I am travelling so I don't get to see it until midnight this coming Monday. Now, the 12 Plus is for me the ultimate in tech cam body.

 

[RLB]

Getting into high end digital medium format and setting a "budget" for a system is more of concept than a reality (personal experience). I've been told by those who get into professional racing that if you want to end up with a million dollars, you should start off with two million. Point and case the best of the best gear is esoteric, low volume and expensive, but what it will allow you to do can be extraordinary.

As Graham points out too, you don't need every tool for the kit right out of the gate. You should save some purchases for later on so that you can go even further in debt! That said patience has it's virtues and if you can apply it here that will mean waiting to expand the kit as clean examples of used gear (extra lenses) come available on the market, and this will also give you some time to sort out what you really want.

As a base, a good digital back (I'd recommend a recommend a CMOS; IQ100 variant) as the CMOS has far better low light capability and is far easier to focus on a Tech or view camera. A CCD IQ180 variant (which we recently traded in for an IQ4) is also an option at 1/2 the price. Keep in mind that while its a fantastic back for resolution, focusing is a challenge, poor high ISO performance is not great, and the built in screen is no where near as nice as the newer backs its still a good choice.

For the camera if you are going to be hiking, smaller and lighter seems more prudent. We chose Arca for versatility, for example wth the RM3Di one has a nice relatively small package and the flexibility to convert it to the Factum which is even smaller but can only shift to 15 degrees. When I hike I find the Factum an ideal camera. In the studio or other situation when I need more shifting capability the RM3Di is the go to. Arca makes a fabulous integrated modular system, and I like their R camera focusing mechanism. While I'm impressed by Cambo's offerings, especially the Actus, its a larger more cumbersome camera for backpacking. The Alpa is beautiful and a fantastic system but it will cost more than a similar Arca setup with the same potential. much of this will come down to person preference of the camera's design as to which you will be happiest with.

Lenses: We use both RODE and SDK. I think are stand out lenses that each of these companies make and that's how we chose them. Rode typically on the wider, SDK on the longer focal lengths. For landscape many begin with longer lenses, IE: 90mm and then create stitched images. I did the opposite, I began with the 40mm Rode and love that perspective. It depends on what type of landscape you are capturing and how close you can get to or into it. Keep in mind a single new Rode can blow your entire $10k budget.

I highly recommend finding a dealer you can trust and rely on to help guide you through this process. There are several out there. We work with Murray Elliot at Mega Pixels and have been very happy with the support him and his team have offered us.

Best wishes on finding your perfect kit!


Robert

 

[Massive Si]

just to update on this

I have now switched from my old P1 back, to an IQ3 50

so I have a CMOS sensor to help with live view focusing. It took a while for me to get the right kit (budget, availability etc) and I was keen to go for a CMOS rather than CCD for the liveview

Now I can get back to looking for a tech camera.

right now my thoughts are between an Cambo WRS and an Actus. I like the look, movements and price of the actus (and lenses), but not so keen on having the bellows out in windy days or with water spray in the air, hence my consideration of the WRS also
but just have to keep an eye on the used market to see when/if something suitable turns up (which doesn't require me to spend $15,000 on a lens)

 

[Jeffrey]

I own and use the Cambo WRS-5000. Most of the time I use my Rodenstock 40mm lens although I own two other lenses. I own and use a Phase Achromatic back because I'm hooked on black & white, sometimes infrared too.

Crawl, walk, then run in your gear selection. Find a reputable dealer and if possible go shooting trying everything you can get your hands on.

Ask every dumb question. This is the most important aspect of selecting gear.

Once you think you've made you selection of gear, see if it is possible to rent the gear for a week and shoot on your own. Make every mistake you think possible, then meet with your dealer and discuss your likes, doubts, questions, and review your images captures with you dealer.

Shooting medium format digital tech cameras is more fun than you can possibly imagine. The only limits on what the gear can do are the limits you establish yourself.

Good luck, and good shooting!

 

[GrahamWelland]

...

Ask every dumb question. This is the most important aspect of selecting gear.

Once you think you've made you selection of gear, see if it is possible to rent the gear for a week and shoot on your own. Make every mistake you think possible, then meet with your dealer and discuss your likes, doubts, questions, and review your images captures with you dealer.

Shooting medium format digital tech cameras is more fun than you can possibly imagine. The only limits on what the gear can do are the limits you establish yourself.

Good luck, and good shooting!

As Jeffrey says, ask away because you’d be surprised what might seem like a dumb question might solicit a lot of insightful responses more than you’d imagine. There are no dumb questions.

Hands on testing is the only way to appreciate the differences between systems and workflow.

 

[DougDolde]

I had a tech camera for a while but am very glad to be out of this setup. It's just too much of a pain to use

 

[stngoldberg]

I had a tech camera for a while but am very glad to be out of this setup. It's just too much of a pain to use

I could not disagree more; I find it a joy to use.
Stanley

 

[Gerd]

I could not disagree more; I find it a joy to use.
Stanley

I feel the same way...

Greetings Gerd