Toyo VX23D and Cambo DPB-23

[freaklikeme]

Hello, everyone,

I'm an Actus DB user but I picked up a gorgeous Toyo VX23D from Roberts Camera. I'd like to be able to continue to use my SLW accessories (focusing screen and Hasselblad H adapter) on the Toyo. Cambo makes an adapter plate to fit the SLW accessories on the Ultima 23D, the DPB-23 that looks like it might work. Has anyone tried this before? Or, alternately, does anyone still have an Ultima 23D with the adapter? If so, could you take some measurements of the adapter's interface with the rear standard and let me know? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth ponying up $500 for the adapter or if this is a job for SKGrimes.

Thanks in advance!

Brad

 

[freaklikeme]

Thanks to the help of a different forum and the Cambo site, I know now the Toyo fixed adapter for DB's is 120x120mm, and the Cambo DPB-23 is 123mmx123mm. I think I'll pick one up and see if it can be machined to fit.

 

[Audii-Dudii]

While the odds of ever finding one for sale -- new or used! -- are quite long, the ground glass / bail assembly for a Toyo 23G fits the VX23D perfectly.

I know, because I have one of each camera and mount the 23G ground-glass assembly on the VX23D to measure the size of the image circles projected by various lenses under different conditions.

I still have 6x7 and 6x9 Toyo roll-film backs for the 23G as well, so, in theory, I can shoot film with the VX23D, too!

Of course, none of this is relevant to your query about reusing your Cambo accessories on your VX23D -- congrats, by the way, as it's a very nice camera and especially for the price used ones are selling for today, which is a small fraction of its original MSRP -- but I thought I'd add this info here for the sake of completeness and to benefit anyone who may stumble on this post in the future.

FYI, if you're a bit adventurous and resourceful, the VX23D can be modified reasonably easily to serve as an Actus alternative, albeit one that is quite a bit larger and heavier. But it has a much wider range of movements, as well as full movements on both standards, which can prove very useful in some situations. This is the reason I'm holding onto mine even though I'm not using it very often these days in deference to my modified Cambo Wide DS FrankenKamera, which is smaller, lighter, and better suited to photographing architectural exteriors in the field.

Here's a recent photo of my VX23D with an A7R body serving as a digital back, in combination with a Lilliput A12 HDMI monitor, and with a vintage Contax 35-70/f3.4 zoom mounted:

 

[freaklikeme]

While the odds of ever finding one for sale -- new or used! -- are quite long, the ground glass / bail assembly for a Toyo 23G fits the VX23D perfectly.

I know, because I have one of each camera and mount the 23G ground-glass assembly on the VX23D to measure the size of the image circles projected by various lenses under different conditions.

I still have 6x7 and 6x9 Toyo roll-film backs for the 23G as well, so, in theory, I can shoot film with the VX23D, too!

Of course, none of this is relevant to your query about reusing your Cambo accessories on your VX23D -- congrats, by the way, as it's a very nice camera and especially for the price used ones are selling for today, which is a small fraction of its original MSRP -- but I thought I'd add this info here for the sake of completeness and to benefit anyone who may stumble on this post in the future.

FYI, if you're a bit adventurous and resourceful, the VX23D can be modified reasonably easily to serve as an Actus alternative, albeit one that is quite a bit larger and heavier. But it has a much wider range of movements, as well as full movements on both standards, which can prove very useful in some situations. This is the reason I'm holding onto mine even though I'm not using it very often these days in deference to my modified Cambo Wide DS FrankenKamera, which is smaller, lighter, and better suited to photographing architectural exteriors in the field.

Here's a recent photo of my VX23D with an A7R body serving as a digital back, in combination with a Lilliput A12 HDMI monitor, and with a vintage Contax 35-70/f3.4 zoom mounted:

I appreciate the heads-up. I do eventually want to have a 6x9 film option for the camera, so I'll keep an eye out for one. I'd also like to find the long bellows for it eventually.

Assuming I can get it working, it will replace the Actus.

 

[Audii-Dudii]

I appreciate the heads-up. I do eventually want to have a 6x9 film option for the camera, so I'll keep an eye out for one. I'd also like to find the long bellows for it eventually.

If you can't find a 23G to scavenge parts from, another film option will be to mount a 45G or Robos rear standard on it along with a 4x5 ground-glass and bail assembly. This is possible because they all share the same 39 mm diameter center mounting rail. Toyo also makes (made?) a 4x5 version of its 6x7 and 6x9 roll-film backs and all of this -- the rear standard, ground-glass assembly, a tapered bellows for their 45CX (it connects the 23G / VX23D front standard with the 45G rear standard), and roll film backs -- are in good supply secondhand and usually not very expensive.

Or when you're ready to do this, get in touch with me, as I suspect I can be parted from my 23G outfit without too much difficulty or expense, since I have no plans to shoot roll film again in the foreseeable future. (If I ever do shoot film, it will almost certainly be with my Toyo 810G, even though I have little enthusiasm for lugging this behemoth around these days.)

Assuming I can get it working, it will replace the Actus.

Be warned: Compared to the Actus, the VX23D -- well, at least my VX23D, which has an early serial number (i.e., it ends with "009") -- is noticeably more flimsy, larger, and roughly three times heaver. These aren't problems when actually taking photos, of course, but you won't be able to leave it mounted on your tripod and carry it around over your shoulder while working in the field, as can be done with an Actus. (Although truth be told, my early production Actus is problematic in that respect, too, as it often applies small amounts of tilt and swing movement due to bouncing around on my shoulder as I walk and when they go unnoticed -- which is most of the time, because I typically photograph late at night and am often straining to compose and focus my photos in dim light -- they can easily ruin a photo. BTDT many times, alas.)

And this especially true if one is using very short focal length lenses, as I do most of the time, because they require proportionally smaller amounts of tilt and swing movements compared to longer focal length lenses.

Oh, and if you plan to use any 35 mm format lenses with your VX23D and a mirrorless FF body, you'll want to find yourself one of the now fairly scarce 24 mm recessed 110x110 lensboards. These have been NLA for a long time now, but do turn up used occasionally -- I managed to find and buy three of them over the course of a year -- and the extra 12 mm recess will make it much easier to mount the lenses closely enough to the sensor so they can focus at infinity. On the other hand, most medium- and large-format type lenses can be successfully used when mounted on flat and 12 mm lens boards.

Enjoy!

 

[freaklikeme]

If you can't find a 23G to scavenge parts from, another film option will be to mount a 45G or Robos rear standard on it along with a 4x5 ground-glass and bail assembly. This is possible because they all share the same 39 mm diameter center mounting rail. Toyo also makes (made?) a 4x5 version of its 6x7 and 6x9 roll-film backs and all of this -- the rear standard, ground-glass assembly, a tapered bellows for their 45CX (it connects the 23G / VX23D front standard with the 45G rear standard), and roll film backs -- are in good supply secondhand and usually not very expensive.

Or when you're ready to do this, get in touch with me, as I suspect I can be parted from my 23G outfit without too much difficulty or expense, since I have no plans to shoot roll film again in the foreseeable future. (If I ever do shoot film, it will almost certainly be with my Toyo 810G, even though I have little enthusiasm for lugging this behemoth around these days.)

Thanks. I will keep that in mind as I'm testing the system. The only lens I have that really begs to be shot 6x9 is the Grandagon 35, though I could easily imagine picking up a Heligon 80/2.8 to use as a portrait lens. You may be getting a message if everything works out.

Be warned: Compared to the Actus, the VX23D -- well, at least my VX23D, which has an early serial number (i.e., it ends with "009") -- is noticeably more flimsy, larger, and roughly three times heaver. These aren't problems when actually taking photos, of course, but you won't be able to leave it mounted on your tripod and carry it around over your shoulder while working in the field, as can be done with an Actus. (Although truth be told, my early production Actus is problematic in that respect, too, as it often applies small amounts of tilt and swing movement due to bouncing around on my shoulder as I walk and when they go unnoticed -- which is most of the time, because I typically photograph late at night and am often straining to compose and focus my photos in dim light -- they can easily ruin a photo. BTDT many times, alas.)

And this especially true if one is using very short focal length lenses, as I do most of the time, because they require proportionally smaller amounts of tilt and swing movements compared to longer focal length lenses.

Oh, and if you plan to use any 35 mm format lenses with your VX23D and a mirrorless FF body, you'll want to find yourself one of the now fairly scarce 24 mm recessed 110x110 lensboards. These have been NLA for a long time now, but do turn up used occasionally -- I managed to find and buy three of them over the course of a year -- and the extra 12 mm recess will make it much easier to mount the lenses closely enough to the sensor so they can focus at infinity. On the other hand, most medium- and large-format type lenses can be successfully used when mounted on flat and 12 mm lens boards.

Enjoy!

Yeah, my Actus has me well-trained to verify the position of both standards before shooting. I'm not really worried about the lower portability. I do a lot of prep work before hand with the 135 format before I break out the big guy so, I usually know exactly where it needs to be at what time and with what lens so, moving it comes down to a series of planned set-ups. Nothing too difficult to manage. Thanks for the tips!

 

[freaklikeme]

CI had a DPB-23 open box that Steve H. tracked down for me, and after a little dance with Fed-Ex, it's in my hands. The good news is it fits, and fits well enough that I can shoot with it no problem, but there is a tiny amount of vertical shift possible if push it. I think that can be remedied with a little fiddling on the camera interface side.

 

[Blacky White]

If you can't find a 23G to scavenge parts from, another film option will be to mount a 45G or Robos rear standard on it along with a 4x5 ground-glass and bail assembly. This is possible because they all share the same 39 mm diameter center mounting rail. ...

Hi,

I stumbled over this thread by searching for some info regarding the VX125 and the VX23D.
Do you know if it's possible to mount the rear standard of a VX125, including the revolving back, to the VX23D?
That way it could be used for 4x5 LF photography (slightly OT, sorry).

 

[Audii-Dudii]

Do you know if it's possible to mount the rear standard of a VX125, including the revolving back, to the VX23D?

As with most things made of metal, sure it can be done!

But you'll have to make an adapter plate to go between the bottom portion of the standard (with the tilt /shift / focus movements) and the upper portion (with the rise / fall movements) because the VX125 standard is wider than the VX23D standard in order to accommodate the larger 4x5 format. i would use a minimum of .1875" thick aluminum sheet for this part, but .250" thick sheet will be stronger (but also heavier.) Carbon fiber sheet is also a possibility, but you'll want to use nuts on the screws holding it to the VX23D standard because I'd be reluctant to trust that holes tapped into carbon fiber won't strip easily and/or the screws pull out of the threads over time or if the camera is ever bumped hard against something.

And then you'll have to either find and buy the bellows for a Toyo 45CX camera, which was designed to mate the smaller 2x3 format standard in front with the larger 4x5 standard in back, or modify the OEM VX23D bellows so it has a mounting frame for a 45-series bellows on the back. Because you will also have to shorten the VX23D's bellows in the process of mounting the larger mounting frame, you'll then be limited to using lenses that are fairly short for the 4x5 format. Of course, if wide-angle photography is your thing -- as it is for me! -- then you'll be good to go.

Oh, and if you're thinking about buying the VX125 frame listed on eBay right now, be warned that it's from a VX125R, so lacks the geared rise / fall movement used on the VX125 and VX125b (and also the VX23D), which made it a non-starter for me, as I considered buying it for another custom FrankenKamera project I had in mind. That said, if you're willing to cannibalize your VX23D's standard for its geared rise / fall mechanism, the odds are pretty good that it can be fitted to the VX125R standard and made to work. I've considered this as well (and I think it can be done so the parts can be reinstalled on the VX23D standard without issue, but can't be absolutely positive about this without having both standards in front of me to compare them) but I decided I wasn't prepared to pay the price the seller wants for it, at least not at this moment, because I have several other projects to pursue first.)

That way it could be used for 4x5 LF photography (slightly OT, sorry).

Alternatively, you can buy any 4x5 format standard from the 45G series forward and mount that in place of the VX2D's rear standard, along with a 45CX bellows (or modify any 45-series bellows so it will mount on the VX23D's smaller front standard) and keep your VX23D intact. The resulting camera will be a bit heavier than a VX23D / VX125 hybrid, as well as a bit less rigid, but it should suffice and should not cost a lot of money to create.

Good luck!

 

[Blacky White]

Hi Audii-Dudii,

thanks very much for taking the time and your deteiled reply.
I dind't mean to do any DIY-conversion, I thought that the rear standards on the model might be interchangeable. Sorry for any confusion

Using another 4x5 format standard from the 45G series is not an option, as I need the geared movements of the VX125.
Doesn't matter, I just try to find a VX125 in good condition (I was just thinking of buying the VX23D instead because it's much cheaper on Ebay, but as the the rear standards are not interchangeable I won't opt for that one).

Thanks anyway!

Cheers

 

[Audii-Dudii]

Using another 4x5 format standard from the 45G series is not an option, as I need the geared movements of the VX125.

FYI, all the 45G-series cameras have geared rise / fall / shift and focus movements; only tilt and swing are friction-type movements, which is also true for the VX23D.

 

[Blacky White]

FYI, all the 45G-series cameras have geared rise / fall / shift and focus movements; only tilt and swing are friction-type movements, which is also true for the VX23D.

Oh ok. Didin't know that. I'll have to check these out then. But I suppose that cameras from the 45G series are not as light as the VX125 ?(Going to use it outdoors)

Thanks.

 

[Blacky White]

Sorry, but there's another fact regarding the 45G series that I'm not sure about.
As only difference between the 45 GII and the 45GX, I recognize yaw-free base tilt and the depth-of-field calculator (for the GX). Is that correct?

In the Toyo desciptions they wrote "center axis tilt" for the GX and "center tilt" for the GII. But that's the same thing, isn't it?

Can asymmetrical focusing be done with these cameras?

Cheers

 

[mike gannon]

i just bought a vx23d ,i would like yo try the same thing you did , do you have the toyo 23g or more info on modifing the vx23d, thank you mike gannon @ [email protected] , live in stanwood wa