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A modern SWC

danlindberg

Well-known member


Hasselblad X1D + XCD 21/4 & cropmode 1:1. A modern SWC.

Yesterday I took my bike and the lightest backpack with the X1D + XCD21. Nothing else. I had no plans where to go, what to shoot, the only thing I knew was that I had no time pressure and was going to shoot the entire day with crop factor 1:1 enabled and look for B&W imagery.

Super wideangle and square format seems at first a little strange, but it is really (for me) going back to my roots. I have never owned a SWC to be fair, but I used a 500CM and the Cf40 Fle for a decade and shot countless of FP4's and HP5's.

Yesterday was my first 'outing' with this mindset. Much more to come! A few random images from a full day out in 30C heat.....











 

JohnBrew

Active member
Good idea, Dan. I was just thinking about a 100 mp X series and how a 1:1 crop would give 60 mp, a very useful size.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
The X1D coupled with the 21mm lens to give an "all digital SWC" equivalent with a 1:1 crop is exactly why I keep going back and forth as to whether to spend the money for it. Your photos do not help ... :D

Very nice photos, and exactly what I keep thinking about. Sigh ... I sold my second SWC back to the guy I bought it from a month or three ago. I love those cameras, but I'd rather have an all digital solution nowadays.

I'll figure it out some day soon.

G
 

danlindberg

Well-known member
John and Godfrey, I can see someone buying into this system because of the above combination! The body is small and the lens is fab. I think (not sure) a square image is around 38mp and that will be enough for many (probably most) applications.

Now I need to come up with an idea for a book project with square monochrome images :thumbup:
 

PeterA

Well-known member
John and Godfrey, I can see someone buying into this system because of the above combination! The body is small and the lens is fab. I think (not sure) a square image is around 38mp and that will be enough for many (probably most) applications.

Now I need to come up with an idea for a book project with square monochrome images :thumbup:
Beautiful images Dan.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
John and Godfrey, I can see someone buying into this system because of the above combination! The body is small and the lens is fab. I think (not sure) a square image is around 38mp and that will be enough for many (probably most) applications.

Now I need to come up with an idea for a book project with square monochrome images :thumbup:
Indeed! Do it! :D

Yes, about 38-39 Mpixel results from the square crop on the X1D sensor. More than enough for my needs, for sure, but it's nice to have the overhead for the infrequent big print or the crop.

I can get similar framing and FoV on FF digital using a 16mm lens, or on APS-C with a 10mm lens, with output of a 16 Mpixel image off a 24 Mpixel sensor. The FoV to DoF relationship is a bit off (with FF, I'd need a 16mm f/2.8 lens used wide open; with APS-C, I'd need a 10mm f/1.8 lens used wide open to net the same as an SWC at f/11...) which aren't exactly available, and of course tonality, DR, etc all vary a bit with the smaller sensor size. I've done both of these and accepted the difference in those relationships. But I sure would like to get closer to the SWC properties... With the X1D+21mm, I think the relationship is there at about f/4-f/5.6, which gives you a bit of wiggle room, if not a lot of room to get the shallower DoF capable with the SWC (down to f/4.5 on 6x6).

I keep thinking about it... Not ready to spend the money yet, but it remains a very attractive proposition. :D

G
 

danlindberg

Well-known member
On Saturday we have a family/friends excursion to Tarifa. This is on the Atlantic side of Spain with huge beaches and incredibly fine grain sand. It is almost always windy and thus it is the best place in Europe for kite and wind surfing. But with fine grain sand and wind it is a very harsh environment for photographers. I have had two V-lenses (long time ago) cleaned profesionally after a full day shooting there. I obviously do not want this to repeat itself but at the same time there are some really great image opportunities as well.

To minimize problems I decided on one lens only. No changing here and the XCD 21 was my first choice, meaning it becomes my SWC again. And definitely need a dustproof bag of some sort and what better than a tiny Pelicase. I put a coffeecup for size reference, the case is really small.

Inside I can fit an ND filter, one extra battery, extra SD cards and lens/hood mounted. Just perfect :thumbup:



 

Godfrey

Well-known member
That kit looks just lovely. Really lovely.

It is, however, much bulkier and heavier than I really want to carry on my back when riding a bicycle or a motorcycle. And this is my biggest stumbling block to buying the X1D: I spend about ten times as much time going places on the bicycle nowadays as I do going places by car.

I may experiment: Buy a Voigtländer 10mm, fit it to the Leica CL, and see how that works out for a week. If it works well, I'm done. If it doesn't, well, return the V10 and pull the money together for the X1D. The difference between 16 mPixel and 39 mPixel isn't so important for my printing needs. The question is, really, how well would it image? Will I get the tonalities I want? Will I get the subject/background relationship I want? Etc.

Instead of a digital SWC, a digital mini-SWC ... perhaps. :D

I think I'll pull out the Polaroid SLR670 and fit my wide angle converter to it today... Now that's a very different take on the wide square meme, eh?


Polaroid SLR670a + Wide Converter by MiNT

At least it folds flat... :)

G
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
I've come to the decision that I just can't really justify the X1D and 21mm lens yet, as much as I'd like one of these kits. I just know that I won't won't be inclined to carry it enough because of the size and weight. I must try other avenues to my 'digital SWC' first.

I have the WATE which at 16mm on the M-D nets about the right FoV. But, for reasons that I can't quite articulate, the WATE doesn't send me although I know it is a fantastic performer. The Super-Elmar-R 15mm is nicer, but without TTL viewing on the M-D precise focusing is a bit dicey (tiny discrepancies in the lens mount adapter's register add up to a LOT with a 15mm lens). An M10-D with Visoflex 020 would solve that issue, should I choose to go that way, but I'm reluctant to let go of the M-D yet. And the SER15 isn't quite wide enough on APS-C for it to do what I want on the CL.

A possible solution: I ordered the Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6 Super Ultra Wide for the CL to test it out. If the lens performance is up to snuff, it could do the number. Otherwise, I'll return it and think some more.

Meanwhile, I did pull out the Polaroid SLR670 and the wide angle adapter lens for it, loaded a pack of B&W, and went off shooting with it. After a few shots I learned how it saw things and how to tweak the exposure to get what I want. It's an interesting, and different, take on Wide Angle Squares shooting ... the adapter lens is no great shakes but used carefully it does work well. I'll open another thread on that because I think the results are interesting, and I don't want this digression to be too obnoxious.

But dang, I do like that X1D kit you've put together. :D

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
...
A possible solution: I ordered the Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6 Super Ultra Wide for the CL to test it out. If the lens performance is up to snuff, it could do the number. Otherwise, I'll return it and think some more. ...
The lens arrived, I took it out for some testing yesterday. I am so far cautiously optimistic... I posted a first sample in the Tree photos thread:

https://www.getdpi.com/forum/artful...e-your-tree-photos-post790400.html#post790400

That's hand-held ... I need to do some more rigorous testing with the camera on a tripod. But so far it's hitting the spec the way I'd like. :D


Okay, I wrote a bit more about it on the RFF and LUF. Since the thoughts are the same as for here, I'm adding the rest. Not to water down Dan's lovely "modern SWC" thought ... Perhaps this should be a thread of a "modern mini-SWC" ... LOL! :D

The Hasselblad SWC has been my gold standard in what I like in an ultra-wide camera for many years. Nowadays, I appreciate an all digital solution for the ease in use and the post processing options, but it proves difficult to get the kind of imaging that the lovely Biogon 38mm f/4.5 T* provides.

I've also got a thing going where the equipment I want to carry must be light and compact because I spend so much of my time out and about riding a bicycle nowadays. Because of this, the Leica CL (digital) has become my standard camera in so many ways, generally fitted with Leica R or M mount lenses.

Well, the small format requires a very short focal length lens to achieve the SWC's 73x73 degree angle of view when cropped square, and there are few of these around. I decided to give the Voigtländer Hyper-Wide 10mm f/5.6 a try; the 10mm nets approximately 77x77 degree AoV cropped square so it's quite close. The lens arrived two days ago; I had the chance to carry it on my bicycle ride Saturday morning and do some testing.


Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/100

Some preliminary testing proved to me that:
  • The CL with M Adapter L mount adapter proves to be right on the money with mount registration. This is important because with a 10mm f/5.6 lens, TTL viewing/focusing is mostly silly unless you're working right up at the closest focusing distance provided by the lens mount.
  • Diffraction means that although the lens can stop down to f/22, you're tossing most of its resolution down the tubes once you pass f/11. It looks like the best performing lens opening is between f/8 and f/11, there's little change between f/5.6 and f/8 anyway.
  • A small amount of lateral chromatic aberration is there, but easily eliminated by nearly any image processing tools these days. Longitudinal chromatic aberration is very low, and resolution holds right to the corners and edges of the APS-C format (haven't done any testing on FF yet). Flare resistance also seems very good.


Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/160

Beyond that, the CL + V10mm proves to be handily sized, light, and ergonomically very nice ... better than the WATE, to me, and certainly a huge lot less to cart about than the CL+Super-Elmar-R 15mm. I haven't done comparisons yet, but I'm curious to see the differences when I get to that.

What you give up going to this solution for ultra-wide squares is some degree of resolution—16 mPixel output instead of 39 mPixel output—and nearly any notion of being able to use selective focus because the DoF is so great on the small 16x16mm format and lens max speed of f/5.6. I can live with these issues. 16 Mpixel is enough to print un-interpolated 13x13 inch prints at 300 ppi, which is the largest I normally make, and I've made even larger prints than that using as low as 5 mPixel original captures that stood up to critical review on exhibition.

By and large, I'm cautiously optimistic that this lens will complete my Leica CL kit nicely and provide that "mini-digital SWC" I've been seeking. And yes, I know that the native Leica TL-11-23mm is another very very fine lens that would do nearly the same, but it's three times the cost, much bulkier, difficult to get at present, and... well, I just don't really like zoom lenses all that much. :)

enjoy
G
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
At the risk of pushing this thread beyond its original intent...

A few more photos from my first outing on Saturday.











All with the Leica CL + Voigtlander Hyper-Wide 10mm f/5.6

enjoy!
G
 

richardman

Well-known member
I guess we will soon know whether Hasselblad will be releasing X1D MkII or a V1D, but seriously, camera companies should think outside the box. Someone should make a small square sensor digital, e.g. 22x22, or 24x24, which would mean full frame lens would already cover it, and make a mini-Hassy-V. From SWC-wide to telephoto....
 

vieri

Well-known member
On Saturday we have a family/friends excursion to Tarifa. This is on the Atlantic side of Spain with huge beaches and incredibly fine grain sand. It is almost always windy and thus it is the best place in Europe for kite and wind surfing. But with fine grain sand and wind it is a very harsh environment for photographers. I have had two V-lenses (long time ago) cleaned profesionally after a full day shooting there. I obviously do not want this to repeat itself but at the same time there are some really great image opportunities as well.

To minimize problems I decided on one lens only. No changing here and the XCD 21 was my first choice, meaning it becomes my SWC again. And definitely need a dustproof bag of some sort and what better than a tiny Pelicase. I put a coffeecup for size reference, the case is really small.

Inside I can fit an ND filter, one extra battery, extra SD cards and lens/hood mounted. Just perfect :thumbup:



Dan, that looks like very good protection :) For what is worth, I walked for about 20 minutes in a sandstorm in Death Valley's Mesquite Dunes with my X1D, and nothing happened to it. It took me a few days to take the last grains of sand off my pants' pockets though! :ROTFL:
 
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