Infrared lighting gear

[Pemihan]

This might not only be for MF, but since I intend to use my MF gear I'm asking here anyway :grin:

I have an ongoing project shooting certain objects in infrared. They are shot using an Achromatic back. So far I have just used natural light but if it's cloudy the results are less than desired so I'm looking to obtain some artificial infrared lightning that simulates the natural infrared radiation.
It might not exist but if so do any of you have any suggestions?

Peter

 

[Don Libby]

Peter, Ken Doo and I actually did this several years ago. While I no longer shoot in IR Ken does and hopefully will add this thoughts. What I remember is using the same filter type to cover the flash as I had on the lens; if I were shooting 720nm then I also had a 720nm filter on the flash. This will require duplicates of all your filters. My answer is just a tease, I'm sure Ken will chime in shortly.Don

 

[Pemihan]

Peter, Ken Doo and I actually did this several years ago. While I no longer shoot in IR Ken does and hopefully will add this thoughts. What I remember is using the same filter type to cover the flash as I had on the lens; if I were shooting 720nm then I also had a 720nm filter on the flash. This will require duplicates of all your filters. My answer is just a tease, I'm sure Ken will chime in shortly.Don

Hey Don, thanks for the teaser, I suppose you could put a filter on continuous light as well? Now where is Ken? Keeeeeeen :grin:

 

[Godfrey]

Just a couple of passing thoughts ...

- An artificial IR lighting arrangement is much more consistent than relying upon daylight for a project unless you live in an average sunny, dry climate.

- Incandescent bulbs produce much more IR than other types of lamps so you get more exposure for your wattage that way.

- I found years ago that a piece of unexposed but processed E4 120 film was just about transparent to IR but does a good job of blocking most visible spectra light, making it a good, cheap, broad spectrum IR-pass filter for lights and such.

I haven't done IR stuff in many years now...

G

 

[dougpeterson]

Both Xenon flash and Tungsten produce meaningful IR; the latter has a higher percentage but the former is a bit easier to control quantity and to get a very large absolute amount of light.

Just add a visible-block-IR-pass filter in front of the light if needed (for ergonomics of not being blinded/dazzled by a lot of visible light, or in case that you don't want to use such a filter in front of the lens).

 

[JoelM]

Check this out:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1593890/0?keyword=infra,red#14833950

Joel

 

[kdphotography]

Hi Peter,

I wrote a blog article quite awhile back on IR flash, converting a flash unit to IR, etc. It might be a good review on what I've done using Profoto B1 and B2 strobes. I'm assuming that a similar conversion could be done with the recently released Profoto B10/B10 plus---I may pick one up. I'm sure this is Dante approved.

See, https://kendoophotography.wordpress...ed-photography-in-landscapes-and-portraiture/

I have a few extra Profoto caps and plan on converting another system sometime. I like using the Xume filter system as this gives you much more control over the the type of IR light that you wish to introduce into your image. Changes are quick and easy. Easy to adapt to full spectrum IR and match your selected IR filter.

I also have an extra (new in the box) Quantum QF-80 reflector for the Quantum flash unit. This is ready to go and also easy to use the Xume system on 67mm filter threads. This is somewhat of a valuable collectors item as Quantum no longer makes this reflector. It was popular at one time in forensic photography. Whenever you see these on sale they often sell for several times retail.

Ken

 

[Pemihan]

Thank for your input guys, I'll take a look at my options.

Ken I just took a quick look at your blog post, very interesting, will read it more thoroughly later today.

I also did a little research and came up this company that makes lights for surveillance and stuff: https://axtontech.com/ Their IR lights transmits at 850nm. B&H sell a lot of their stuff.

Also found this: https://www.lucentinfraredlights.com/ Not sure at what wavelength they transmits but have sent them an email.

 

[Pemihan]

On another note, I'm also looking to get something for use as background for the subjects (parts of plants) that absorbs as much as possible and reflects as little as possible of the IR light. Cloth, painted wood, cardboard, rubber, anything. Haven't done a lot of research on that yet.

 

[kdphotography]

The character of light should not change just because you have changed the nature (680nm, 720nm, 850nm, etc) of the IR wavelength. It is merely the sensor that changes as to the sensitivity to what it "sees" or records.

In this same vein for a backdrop, a darker backdrop with low reflectivity such as black cloth, seamless, or velvet would absorb light best regardless of the whether normal studio strobe or IR filtered strobe.

Or, I could be full of ****, but I don't think so. :loco:

 

[dougpeterson]

The character of light should not change just because you have changed the nature (680nm, 720nm, 850nm, etc) of the IR wavelength. It is merely the sensor that changes as to the sensitivity to what it "sees" or records.

In this same vein for a backdrop, a darker backdrop with low reflectivity such as black cloth, seamless, or velvet would absorb light best regardless of the whether normal studio strobe or IR filtered strobe.

Or, I could be full of ****, but I don't think so. :loco:

Oddly enough this is not always the case. A lot of fabric dyes are selected exclusively for their visible light characteristics. So two black fabrics may be two totally different tones in infrared-only captures. I don’t have exhaustive knowledge in this area, but from I remember on my last deep dive, artificial fabrics and artificial dyes are more likely to be bright in infrared (even if black in the visible spectrum).

Think about the original Leica M infrared issue; that camera had a very weak IR filter, one consequence of which was that some black fabrics would turn fairly bright purple (a result of them being brightly reflective in infrared and that infrared content leaking through the weak IR filter to effect the red, and to a lesser extent, blue pixels. But not all black fabrics exhibited this effect.

 

[Satrycon]

very true

here are 2 street shots at 850nm one girls outfit showed up as jet black, but the long coat in the other shot which was visible was black showed up as a dark grey

View attachment 142298

View attachment 142299

[the 1st shot was on a very cloudy overcast day, so high ISO]

Oddly enough this is not always the case. A lot of fabric dyes are selected exclusively for their visible light characteristics. So two black fabrics may be two totally different tones in infrared-only captures. I don’t have exhaustive knowledge in this area, but from I remember on my last deep dive, artificial fabrics and artificial dyes are more likely to be bright in infrared (even if black in the visible spectrum).

Think about the original Leica M infrared issue; that camera had a very weak IR filter, one consequence of which was that some black fabrics would turn fairly bright purple (a result of them being brightly reflective in infrared and that infrared content leaking through the weak IR filter to effect the red, and to a lesser extent, blue pixels. But not all black fabrics exhibited this effect.

 

[kdphotography]

It's always a matter of tones/tonality, as well as how much light actually reaches the subject area or fall off of light, particularly with regard to a backdrop. Control can come from the backdrop materials use as well as the modifiers (grids, barn doors, etc).

 

[jerome_m]

If your project involves photography of plants and you expect foliage to be white, using IR lights may not do the trick. Plants emit IR because of chlorophyll fluorescence. That is: they absorb visible light (mostly red) and re-emit IR. The energy difference between the wavelengths absorbed and emitted is used to break CO2 into carbon, allow the plant to grow and life on this planet to exist, etc... The point is, however, that they need visible light to do so, not IR alone.

If you really need IR alone, there are small LED-based lamps for security camera, like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/illuminator-Infrared-Vision-Security-Camera/dp/B00ITKO9NW/

If you need to recreate natural sunlight, a standard halogen lamp is the best you can do, short of spending lots of money. Both are so called "black bodies".

 

[Pemihan]

If your project involves photography of plants and you expect foliage to be white, using IR lights may not do the trick. Plants emit IR because of chlorophyll fluorescence. That is: they absorb visible light (mostly red) and re-emit IR. The energy difference between the wavelengths absorbed and emitted is used to break CO2 into carbon, allow the plant to grow and life on this planet to exist, etc... The point is, however, that they need visible light to do so, not IR alone.

If you really need IR alone, there are small LED-based lamps for security camera, like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/illuminator-Infrared-Vision-Security-Camera/dp/B00ITKO9NW/

If you need to recreate natural sunlight, a standard halogen lamp is the best you can do, short of spending lots of money. Both are so called "black bodies".

Thanks Jerome.

Yes the subjects are parts of plants on a black background. So far I have photographed in in natural light, so I was looking to shoot using only IR light, but if that doesn't work as you describe using lights to bump up the IR might be do the trick. Maybe a combination of visible light and IR might do the trick. I will try with a standard halogen lamp and maybe top it of with a IR light as well.

This is an example of what I'm doing:

 

[JeRuFo]

Hi Peter,

I wrote a blog article quite awhile back on IR flash, converting a flash unit to IR, etc. It might be a good review on what I've done using Profoto B1 and B2 strobes. I'm assuming that a similar conversion could be done with the recently released Profoto B10/B10 plus---I may pick one up. I'm sure this is Dante approved.

See, https://kendoophotography.wordpress...ed-photography-in-landscapes-and-portraiture/

I have a few extra Profoto caps and plan on converting another system sometime. I like using the Xume filter system as this gives you much more control over the the type of IR light that you wish to introduce into your image. Changes are quick and easy. Easy to adapt to full spectrum IR and match your selected IR filter.

I also have an extra (new in the box) Quantum QF-80 reflector for the Quantum flash unit. This is ready to go and also easy to use the Xume system on 67mm filter threads. This is somewhat of a valuable collectors item as Quantum no longer makes this reflector. It was popular at one time in forensic photography. Whenever you see these on sale they often sell for several times retail.

Ken

Fun ideas to experiment with. IR for light painting is a great idea, especially for areas where it might not be appreciated. The only problem is that I like to do it around dusk and then you would lose the background. But for the times I want to light a dark foreground with a bright background during the day it's certainly an option.

 

[jerome_m]

Yes the subjects are parts of plants on a black background.

Do they look different in IR and in the visible? I mean, if the background is black, the plant will look lighter gray in any case, wouldn't it?

 

[Pemihan]

Do they look different in IR and in the visible? I mean, if the background is black, the plant will look lighter gray in any case, wouldn't it?

Actually the look is quite different. The IR has a very different "feel" to it, there's an other-worldly feel to the subjects. At least to my eyes.

On another note I went to the local cloth store and picked three different black cloths. All three pitch black. I shot an image of them together and one was very light grey, one a little darker grey and the last one black! Sorry for the bad shot, didn't bother to focus. I got the black (obviously) and just experimented with it. Works beautifully.