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Hasselblad Teaser and Upcoming Announcement

gerald.d

Well-known member
“With 100MP, even with IBIS, I doubt that my hand-held keeper rate would be high.“

I don’t understand this comment. Would you care to explain why not?
 

JimKasson

Well-known member
I can hand hold the camera and get sharp photographs, with exceptional color rendering, with the 50MP sensor. With 100MP, even with IBIS, I doubt that my hand-held keeper rate would be high.
Increasing the sensor resolution and leaving everything else the same will not result in blurrier images at the same print size with the same amount of camera shake.

Jim
 

onasj

Active member
Exactly. And on top of this fact, the newer Sony IMX461/411 sensors offer about one full stop of better high ISO noise performance than the 2015-2016 50 MP sensor in the X1D (mark 1 and mark 2), meaning you actually can get sharper photos with the new sensors than with the older backs simply because you can shoot at half your usual shutter speed. That’s certainly the case from my experiences comparing my handheld IQ3-100 photos to my handheld IQ4-150 frames, and I now routinely shoot the IQ4 handheld with an 80/2.8 lens at 1/250 or 1/400 in low ambient light when I can’t use additional lighting without worrying about noise, settings that gave me much noisier results with the IQ3-100.

Increasing the sensor resolution and leaving everything else the same will not result in blurrier images at the same print size with the same amount of camera shake.

Jim
 

JeRuFo

Active member
The emperor's new clothes. Iam quite disappointed in the time they took to come up with this. No new sensor, so no improved AF. But most of all it gives me little confidence to finally commit to the system. I understand that they can't and shouldn't try to keep up with Fuji, but these cameras should be teasers to bridge the time it takes you to develop something new. I would be more at ease if the announcement of the CFV would have included a new sensor, at least that would give more faith for the future. The R+D is still busy with the old tech, so new tech is not even on the horizon yet.

The money invested can't be enormous, but neither can the profits be, since two of the announced products. The 907 might sell decently for what it is, but there are not that many selling points for it over the X1D, which is more allround and not that different in size or weight. It is lovely though, which will work in its favor, like it did for the X1D.
 

Boinger

Active member
Well I am very surprised and rather disappointed.

I think I will probably be moving on from the X1d to the GFX 100.

It is not the MP count for me it is the AF system. The X1d AF cannot handle a basic moving target and I was hoping that pdaf would help the case I have kids and I use my camera for them and would have liked a camera that could handle minimal movements with AF at least.

It is a bit of a mixed bag for me because I don't really like the bulk of the whole gfx line.

The 3.69 Mp viewfinder is also a bit lacking in the modern age when we have 5 MP viewfinders available.

This camera is honestly I feel 2 years too late for the improvements it offers.
 

drunkenspyder

Well-known member
Count me as one of the disappointed ones. Mostly because, to me, and this is only my opinion and YMMV, this announcement suggests to me that Hassy’s long term future remains in doubt.

I actually like the new iteration of the camera. I bought a new original model just a few months ago, and I got a fantastic deal on it, so the new price point does not bother me. I think the new price point is a good thing if it attracts new owners to the platform. But I don’t think it will. New MF owners are likely to be driven primarily by the same “features wars” that have irreversibly infected the FF market. And Hassy is non-competitive on that field. But the II is still a very elegant camera. And I think Austin Mann’s review captures its attraction well. Just won’t be enough.

So why am I gloomy about Hassy’s future? Three things, and they may seem silly on the surface, but they resonate with me as a business person:
1. Hassy’s website front page currently touts the shutter release cable and dual battery charger as some kind of big deal. Yawn. Embarrassing.
2. Hassy’s descriptions of the new II features are embarrassingly modest, including their reference to “full resolution JPEGs.” Wow. How....whelming. Austin’s review notwithstanding, and with due respect to Joe’s discussion below, there is simply not that much to tout here that shouldn’t have been done 18 months ago. And apparently, still no live histogram? Really. In a mirrorless camera. I hope I am wrong about that.
3. This from Hassy’s own website demonstrates that someone there cannot tell the difference between their a$$ and the proverbial sedimentary canyon:
EC1631E8-23A9-43A3-9EE9-CA55930657F0.jpg

I love my X1D. I am just about to board my plane home from NZ where I shot it side by side with my Phase, and enjoyed both. I am actually likely to order the new II and give my original to my wife. But I am not part of the market that will drive Hasselblad’s future success. I have no real clue what that market might be, or what they think it is. The thing that gives me a little hope is, surprisingly to me, the 907. As I am reading more about the 907, it might end up making sense, and it may be where Hassy is going to put a modern 100mpx sensor. That tilting screen is no slouch.
 
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Abstraction

Well-known member
It seems risky to announce a new camera and a new back using the 5 yo sensor. How long is this sensor going to be around before Sony retires it? The life cycle of this camera can't be expected to be very long.
 

Geoff

Well-known member
The challenge for smaller firms like Hassy and Leica (even if there are deep pockets behind them) is to figure out how to tap into tradition, while at the same time, resonate with the new buyers. In fact, they have two markets to serve: those who know what they used to make and like it, and those that are new, possibly flush. The newer audience is of a different generation, more demanding and less patient.

Knowing they can't keep up with Fujis of the world, this then becomes an allocation game: where to put the limited funds they have to both hold the interests of their two markets as well as build for the future. And they don't always get it right - look at Leica's odd mix of cameras: some work really well, and some less successful. And Hassy doesn't have the luxury to get it wrong.

In this regard, the smart play is the 907 and the CV50 II. The back works for older V cameras as well as the 907. V, H or X lenses are usable. Lots of flexibility - even if a bit retro, it's seductive. Heck, I don't have a V camera, and I'd be tempted to get a 500 just to work with it. Depending on its price, the back could be a big hit.... and if the 907 isn't too expensive, it becomes their version of the Alpa TC.

What then of the X1D II? Two story lines are possible: one is that the new X1D, while decent, doesn't compete in features, rather just with size and profile. Hassy is trying to hold their identity as portable and higher design profile. With modest pricing, it holds its own, but nothing more. More lenses get sold, Hassy's toehold is preserved, but its a bit disillusioning to the more impatient.

Alternatively, consider that perhaps the new X1D has the needed "under the hood" improvements for any future upgrade to 100mb sensor, which was not possible now for whatever reason. In that sense, one could see the X1D II as a play for time (a year or so?), assuming they can deal with all the internet chatter that the sky is falling. To me, this feels like a smart allocation of limited resources and energy, and overall, is a pretty smart strategy.

Don't know which of these two versions is real. Both are possibilities.
 
It seems risky to announce a new camera and a new back using the 5 yo sensor. How long is this sensor going to be around before Sony retires it? The life cycle of this camera can't be expected to be very long.
It's an upgrade of the previous camera at a lower price. What's not to like? Like all digital cameras, it will continue to work long after Sony discontinues the sensor. Life cycle is not the same as GAS.
 

Christopher

Active member
I did not expect that.... it looks like DIJ has no real interest in investing the money needed. Or Hasselblad has a strange sense of new products. Don’t get me wrong an updated version would have been great as addition to a X1D 100
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I must have missed Fuji’s small 1.6 lb camera with a 100MP sensor. No? Well, certainly, they’ve had years to get it into their GFX S/R bodies, right? ... No?

Well what’s everyone complaining about?

Thermodynamics cannot be cheated.
 

onasj

Active member
Alternatively, consider that perhaps the new X1D has the needed "under the hood" improvements for any future upgrade to 100mb sensor, which was not possible now for whatever reason. In that sense, one could see the X1D II as a play for time (a year or so?), assuming they can deal with all the internet chatter that the sky is falling. To me, this feels like a smart allocation of limited resources and energy, and overall, is a pretty smart strategy.

Don't know which of these two versions is real. Both are possibilities.
The problem is Hassy, like most smaller camera companies, doesn't release new products frequently. So even if their next X-series release is a X1D-100c with the 100 MP BSI sensor, it will likely be available to consumers long after (>1 year, and probably >2 years after) the Fuji GFX100 and the Phase One IQ4, two systems with current-generation sensor technology, have been available. Two years from now, Fuji and Phase will be using whatever IMX5xx sensor is considered cutting edge, and once again we will hear (legitimate!) complaints that Hassy is still two years behind the state-of-the-art if they release a IMX461-based X2D then.

The only way to truly catch up to substantially superior current-generation sensors is to incorporate them into your next camera *before* they become last-generation sensors. Fuji and Phase did so. Hassy did not.

I would be thrilled if Hassy released in 2019 an X2D or CFV that uses a current-generation BSI sensor. I would be willing to pay $40k+ for a true digital V system with a 53x40 BSI 150 MP sensor, digitally cropped to a 113 MP square, with autofocus and full XCD lens compatibility. But I'm not holding my breath, given the past schedule of new Hasselblad releases. So a more realistic hope is that Hassy's X2D or V1D that might be released in a couple years leapfrogs ahead of the IMX4xx sensor technology and goes directly to the IMX5xx (or whatever is cutting edge at the time).
 

Christopher

Active member
I must have missed Fuji’s small 1.6 lb camera with a 100MP sensor. No? Well, certainly, they’ve had years to get it into their GFX S/R bodies, right? ... No?

Well what’s everyone complaining about?

Thermodynamics cannot be cheated.
Don’t believe that’s the problem. Fuji certainly will bring a smaller version without IBIS. We will see what will come. However, especially on the cfv it would have been a great sign to show Hasselblad is actually working on the new stuff. Or any sign of the H series.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
On a positive note, the wait for the XCD 35-75 Zoom has been long and for many, painful. However, the very good news is that the wait has apparently been worth it based upon what Hasselblad claims it will deliver in optical quality. According to the press release announcing the zoom, its chief designer, Per Nordlund, declares it to be the ‘best zoom lens available on the market,' offering the same edge-to-edge image quality as a series of prime lenses. He also claims it is the best lens it has ever developed. I don't know if it will surpass the Fuji GFX 32-64mm zoom, but if the XCD zoom just matches it, that will make me very happy. The Fuji zoom is an amazing lens. I am sure that was Hasselblad's target.
 

richardman

Well-known member
As a V system user (203FE) that could not (yet) upgrade to the X1D, I love the 907x and CFV-50CII announcement. If I have the fund, I could start with the digital back, then add the 907x and a 20mm XCD lens to get a true SWC experience. Love it.
 

richardman

Well-known member
And really, it does not cost Sony much of anything to keep fab'ing old sensors. There are a lot of fabs out there, so they just find one with the right geometry and just keep on making them....
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
As a V system user (203FE) that could not (yet) upgrade to the X1D, I love the 907x and CFV-50CII announcement. If I have the fund, I could start with the digital back, then add the 907x and a 20mm XCD lens to get a true SWC experience. Love it.
That is exactly what I thought as well and I will start with the CFV II 50C . I hope it will be available soon .
 
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