Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    144
    Post Thanks / Like

    Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    ..and full of hope. mind you. I'll explain
    evenin gents and ladies,
    I've been vacuuming knowledge from this board for a while, and a heartfelt thanks to all of you,
    as my quest for MFDB nears hysterical pitch.
    My head is swimming in microns, fora, pdfs, etc...it actually really hurts.

    What has been wonderful is the fidgeting @3am, the half-dreaming in imagery, and the working out both the realworld practicalities (mostly money) and the fantastical..so I end up back a -googling and a-sketching till the sun comes up, and I gotta go to work.

    I am not a landscape photographer, as I gather most of you are - but somehow right now I don't feel weird, I think - for I have always believed that, no matter your "level" or genre, photography is a fickle state of grace that one achieves intermittently, after having worked like a moth to flame to realize the image. and then u die. Kinda democratic, in that sense. What comes thru here, in this community, is the love...of light...and gear too. hurray gear!

    I was a working photog in NYC and LA ten years ago, working mostly in Nikon & Pentax 6x7, slaving away at film production and stills, a book cover here, a record cover there, fashion tests...then joined the UN peacekeeping missions in Sierra Leone, Liberia, and am now a TV producer here in the Congo.
    I brought a Deardorff with 4x5 reducing back and Type 55.
    well since then:
    1. Polaroid RIP
    2. my archive of master negs of all my photo life got stolen in NYC - hence I never wanna look at a piece of film again. and that's final.
    3. no more B&W Humanity of Man (see below) - from now on, its garish color-gelled panoramas of jungle, whores, mercenaries, tribal fighters, amd Armani-wearing upperclass Africans - all of them hustlin and survivin - in a backdrop of leaves and vines at night. hopefully vulgar..and honest..pictures
    So - I need help and advice - and it really sucks cuz I'm out here and won't be back stateside till mid-May. And i will only have one week to get my gear together.

    1. P45? or P25? if I'm thinking multi-layered composites of landscape and people, blown up to 6ftx4ft, stacked alongside to look like one long panoramic -- Can a P25, or Aptus 75 (with some uprezzing) pull it off? Huge difference in price range, as NYC dealer= $8,700 for a P25, or private P45 at $13000..and there's a Leaf 75 on ebay for 10grand?
    Anyone looking to sell a P45?

    2. a really-worn looking RZII and good glass - I need the leaf-shutter action for the african sun, its cheaper than the Hassy, and my sense memories are Mamiya-branded with that explosive shutter curtain. There is already something gross about working with expensive gear, and photographing people getting by on .65cents a day. But I'm still a techie enough to know you gotta have gear that works, and I'm not gonna try to bring chemicals and work with dirty water just I can be down with the people.

    3. A Hensel Porty kit - here at work, I also have ARRI lights kits for video that I can use for foliage at night, with a genny.
    I'm not much for precision. I use handheld metering only and only care about directing the people in front of the lens. I only want 50 ASA, tripod and a wide and portrait lens. I would only shoot in controlled (protected) situations here. I wanna chill out with Avedon and Penn in heaven.

    Apologies for my rambling and many thanks in advance for any help, esp with uprezzing from 22mp/33mp...and wc ever way this ends, I cannot wait for that WOW Holy **** factor when I see my first instantaneous image on my laptop, as in that first print out of Dektol from eons past. like SEX.
    so goodnight, good peeps, from the heart of Africa.
    a few samples of recent work that I wanna move on from...

  2. #2
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Well let me be the first to congratulate you on what may be the best first post we have had at GetDPI! Regardless of genre, your images are stellar, thanks for sharing and welcome!

    I will hold off on the gear recos for now and let others enjoy your work,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    California/Thailand
    Posts
    1,206
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Welcome, ocarlo, and thank you for your post.

    Lovely images you've posted. Looking forward to more.

  4. #4
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Ah the look of Penn, one shooter I just love his work. Nice stuff here. BTW welcome to the forum
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Nice first post! Welcome.

    I can understand your desire for a cheap leaf shutter system. However, the RZ67 has issues at the wide end. I believe a 50mm is the widest rectilinear lens and from what one of my friends reported, it's too soft for digital. This is a serious limitation, just so you are aware. There are other cheap leaf shutter systems with better lens options, and without breaking the bank (Rollei 6008, Hass V).

  6. #6
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Quote Originally Posted by ocarlo View Post
    1. P45? or P25? if I'm thinking multi-layered composites of landscape and people, blown up to 6ftx4ft, stacked alongside to look like one long panoramic -- Can a P25, or Aptus 75 (with some uprezzing) pull it off? Huge difference in price range, as NYC dealer= $8,700 for a P25, or private P45 at $13000..and there's a Leaf 75 on ebay for 10grand?
    Anyone looking to sell a P45?
    6ft by 4ft is an extremely demanding print size. You'll definitly be taking advantage of the extra resolution of a 45+, or for that matter of a 65+.

    The truth is most people don't need the resolution of a 45 or 65, but you area clearly not most people.

    This is going to be a major investment for you in both time and money. Avoid the temptation to jump on any particular auction, sale, or dealer offer and instead determine what your wants and needs are in abstract first. Once you're secure in what you do and don't need then you can evaluate offers/deals more fairly.

    For instance you seem like an excellent candidate for a NON plus version of the P45. You don't need most of the improvements of the plus model and the image quality at base ISO is the same. In fact, though the P+ LCD is higher resolution and looks better in-studio the non P model can often look as good or better in direct sunlight.

    Welcome to the board.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
    National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    28

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    For instance you seem like an excellent candidate for a NON plus version of the P45.

    If I may take this slightly OT, Doug what would such a candidate be like compared with one who buys the P45+ ?

    I keep looking at the 2 backs but worry that if I go with the P45, I may end up regretting that I have lost the cleaner noise and longer exposure.

    Thanks.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Seattle, USA
    Posts
    400
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Ocarlo,

    Gorgeous work.

    6ft x 4ft, eh? I assume this is for a single shot, not stitched...

    With a P45, that's only 100ppi. Even with a P65+, it's still only 124ppi... I think it's safe to say these will be soft when viewed up close, but 'soft' and 'close' are relative terms. I'd suggest a P45 at a minimum...

    After having gone through 5 different medium format systems, I'd really encourage you to line up test drives with each system. There are many, many factors that will influence how you work--no spec sheet will tell you about how it feels, how naturally controls lay to hand, or how it responds for your particular demands.

    I'd even go so far as to say that if you're shooting mercenaries, tribal fighters, etc., and need to be ready at a moment's notice, that the camera might be your key component, then look at getting a back to go with it.

    In terms of P45 vs P45+, I shoot outdoors, and can't say I found the P45 screen to be better or even comparable in any way to the P45+.

    Is the back's frame rate a factor in your work? I shot with the P65+ for an afternoon and while the 20% boost in resolution didn't blow me away, I found the increased performance to be most welcome.

    Welcome,
    -Brad

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    144
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    many thanks all for a warm welcome.
    feels comfy in here.
    foto-z: noted about the RZ wide-angle issue, tho as with every other issue, I aint there
    to see with my own eyes. And btw, I just found out that the Hensel Porty syncs
    only up to 1/250th. Does this mean I should go ND filters if I want to freeze action
    in bright sun? Assisted only once on a Hassy shoot, but isn't that 6x6, and so you would work with a rectangular viewing guide on the waistlevel finder?

    Doug - While I could scale down my ambitions a little bit, I know that I would be compositing people into landscapes, violating rules of scale, dropping scanned graphics in there, to create a panoramic story. So I'm still guessing a P45 at a minimum, esp. if I wanna do a lot of cropping and lifting sections of photos.
    I have never had any print bigger than 20x24, so I know not whereof I speak, but isn't it that the bigger the final print, the less final dpi one needs?

    In real world shooting with people, is the P45 considerably slower than a P25?
    So many ifs - and since I don;t have the luxury of time to test, I'll have to get as close as I can abstractly, pare down to the essentials (high rez over shooting speed, e.g) then leap on faith. This board is definitely so very helpful.
    thanks again all.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    North Sweden
    Posts
    1,402
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Hi Ocarlo.

    Great images! I'm just a little North of you, I am clearing landmines in Southern Sudan and also up in Darfur for the UN, interesting times! I was in DRC in 2000 running an expedition, superb location!

    Anyway, stay safe down there, if you want to film some interesting stuff I left a place called Malakal yesterday on the North/South Sudan border, pretty tough place!

    Cheers.

    Mat.

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Well my friend, you are the "real deal"! Nice work, ... a warm welcome to Dante's "Gates Of Hell" medium format digital forum ... where not everyone is a landscape shooter

    In past, I've shot with a Leaf Aptus 75s on a RZ Pro-II ... for some reason that back is perfectly suited for the Mamiya RZ lenses and produces outstanding image quality ... the advantage of the RZ is the rotating back for landscape or portrait oriented images without removing the digital back. The Sinar Hy6 also has this feature as an option (the Leaf Hy6 does not). The disadvantage is size and slow speed ... AND the crop factor of using a 645 sized sensor on a 6X7 system, with 50mm the widest available lens (which is NOT really soft for digital since the image circle area being used is the center not the edges.)

    The 500 series Hasselblad V requires removal of the back to remount in portrait orientation. Maybe not the best choice for your location.

    I'd recommend one of the 645 cameras ... Hasselblad H1, H2 for leaf shutter, or Contax 645 or Mamiya 645AFD-II for focal plane shutter cameras. They are fast, more portable, and do not require removal of the back to change image orientation. All of them offer a full range of focal lengths and are not hampered by lack of wide angle choices. It should be noted that Mamiya is supposed to be coming with a few Leaf Shutter lenses for use on their focal plane shutter cameras, but that has yet to materialize.

    I think most of these digital backs are fairly equal with minor differences here and there. What will be important where you are is who can best support you when you need help or service.

    BTW, I also have the Porty, and in some cases you can get away with a shutter speed a bit higher than 1/250th when using it for fill.

    If I may suggest, look into use of Genuine Fractals software for up-sizing for huge prints. I recently did a test of their latest version and it was a substantial improvement in micro detail compared to Photoshop up-rezing ... or any other enlarging program I tried. I have produced 8 foot prints with a 39 meg H3D-II that you could press your noise against. Even the printer was amazed. This is valuable strictly for really huge enlargements ... which is what it was designed for.

    (there is a comparison thread on GetDPI here:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...nuine+Fractals

    Lots of expert experience here, so you should come to an answer in short order and get back to shooting that wonderful work

    Best of luck.

    -Marc

  12. #12
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Quote Originally Posted by ocarlo View Post
    And btw, I just found out that the Hensel Porty syncs
    only up to 1/250th. Does this mean I should go ND filters if I want to freeze action
    in bright sun? Assisted only once on a Hassy shoot, but isn't that 6x6, and so you would work with a rectangular viewing guide on the waistlevel finder?
    I don't know the Portys but can they really only be used up to 1/250? (Seems unlikely). In that case I'd suggest looking at something like the Profoto 7B or maybe the new Lithium Portys are better?
    ND filters won't help to freeze the action. If you're getting blur at 1/250 then you simply need a faster shutter speed. I use a Rollei 6008AF which has up to 1/1000 flash sync, and that works with my Profoto flash too.

    Both the Rollei and Hass V have 6x6 WLFs, so you add a mask to indicate the frame edges for both vertical and horizontal orientations of the sensor.

  13. #13
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    For instance you seem like an excellent candidate for a NON plus version of the P45.

    If I may take this slightly OT, Doug what would such a candidate be like compared with one who buys the P45+ ?

    I keep looking at the 2 backs but worry that if I go with the P45, I may end up regretting that I have lost the cleaner noise and longer exposure.

    Thanks.
    Someone who needs higher ISO, long exposures, or who favors the + LCD.

    Ocarlo said specifically he does not need high ISO, and I inferred he did not need long exposure. The LCD is a bit of a personal call though most favor the plus series LCD. For instance Bradley says he prefers the + screen even head-to-head outside where others may not see a big difference (inside the difference is very clear).

    There are other minor differences but long exposure, ISO, and LCD are generally the ones that would make or break your decision.

    [QUOTE=BradleyGibson;89719]Ocarlo,

    Gorgeous work.


    Quote Originally Posted by ocarlo View Post
    Doug - While I could scale down my ambitions a little bit, I know that I would be compositing people into landscapes, violating rules of scale, dropping scanned graphics in there, to create a panoramic story. So I'm still guessing a P45 at a minimum, esp. if I wanna do a lot of cropping and lifting sections of photos.
    I have never had any print bigger than 20x24, so I know not whereof I speak, but isn't it that the bigger the final print, the less final dpi one needs?

    In real world shooting with people, is the P45 considerably slower than a P25?
    So many ifs - and since I don;t have the luxury of time to test, I'll have to get as close as I can abstractly, pare down to the essentials (high rez over shooting speed, e.g) then leap on faith. This board is definitely so very helpful.
    thanks again all.
    I don't know what your economic situation is, but the dealer in NYC or my company in Miami/Atlanta could arrange in-person demos of both a P25 and P45 (or whatever else you are deciding between) so that you could make your choice at the demo, pay, and walk away with your choice. I would give some thought to which dealer would be best suited to help you should any problems arise. Not all dealers are made equally.

    Another question for you is WHICH RZ platform you want to choose. There differences between the RZ Pro II and the RZ Pro IID are not huge, but the choice between them is huge for you. Each Phase One digital back is made to a specific physical mount.

    The RZ Pro II is usually used with a Hasselblad-V digital back (you might see this written as P25V or P45V for instance). The RZ Pro IID is usually used with a Mamiya mount digital back (you might see this written as P25M or P45M).

    A P25V/P45V could be used on your RZ as well as on a Hasselblad 500 series body (more compact, wider lenses available). A P25M/P45M could be used on a RZ Pro IID as well as on a Mamiya AFD, AFD2, AFD3, Phase One body, or any future Mamiya / Phase One bodies (more compact, wider lenses available, autofocus available).

    So pick your poison.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
    National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    212
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Intro: Newbie Staggers In

    Stunningly beautiful work! Finally some real photos and not just crappy snapshots with expensive equipment. Why you would want to move away from this is beyond me though.. Anyway, welcome and good luck with your purchase.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •