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Thread: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

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    Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    The first major update to the Phase One IQ4 is expected to be released to users next week. Called "Creative Control" It brings
    - Automatic Frame Averaging
    - Improved storage options
    - The ability to load custom C1 Styles into the back

    It also fixes the vertical bug we reported on (thanks to our savvy user) and is expected to add a B/T mode to ES when used on a tech camera. It does not include zero latency or Ad Hoc wireless.

    We (DT) will have more information, sample files, and analysis up on our website later today.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The first major update to the Phase One IQ4 is expected to be released to users next week. It brings
    - Automatic Frame Averaging
    - Improved storage options
    - The ability to load custom C1 Styles into the back

    It also fixes the vertical bug we reported on (thanks to our savvy user) and is expected to add a B/T mode to ES when used on a tech camera. It does not include zero latency or Ad Hoc wireless.

    We (DT) will have more information, sample files, and analysis up on our website later today.
    Thanks for the info, Doug.

    The frame averaging looks very interesting indeed, very much look forward to the next update, hopefully they’ve fixed the portrait orientation bug as well.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    hopefully they’ve fixed the portrait orientation bug as well
    Yes, the "portrait orientation bug" is the "vertical bug" that my post indicates is fixed. Your terminology is probably more clear than mine was; thanks!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Yes, the "portrait orientation bug" is the "vertical bug" that my post indicates is fixed. Your terminology is probably more clear than mine was; thanks!
    Oh, I’m sorry man, in my excitement I just flew over that second paragraph!! Well, that’s more good news than I expected.

    Anyway, let’s sit back and relax while we wait for the new update to be available, the long exposure emulation combined with the HDR function will probably render most of me filters useless.....I like the idea of only having to travel with a polarizer!

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Is frame averaging a XF only feature? Or will it work with a tech camera and the ES shutter.

    Paul C

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Is frame averaging a XF only feature? Or will it work with a tech camera and the ES shutter.

    Paul C
    It works on any camera the IQ4 works on, including tech cameras and view cameras (e.g. Arca R)

    Indeed, given how game-changing I expect this feature to be to landscape and architecture shooters, I'd expect a lot of use of this feature on tech cameras.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Can one assume these new features will be available on the 150 Achromatic too.
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Can one assume these new features will be available on the 150 Achromatic too.
    Yes! Though obviously the styles will be limited in their ability to manipulate color .
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Does this also bring the IQ4 to parity with the IQ3 with features like focus mask on image review and ad hoc networking to support Capture Pilot?

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Is “automatic frame averaging” the median stacking stacking that I spoke about back at the time of the IQ4’s release?

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    wow... how can it be that we still don’t get useful IQ3 features and super important stuff like adhoc WiFi....
    Christopher Hauser
    http://www.chauser.eu

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    It works on any camera the IQ4 works on, including tech cameras and view cameras (e.g. Arca R)

    Indeed, given how game-changing I expect this feature to be to landscape and architecture shooters, I'd expect a lot of use of this feature on tech cameras.

    Thanks Doug.

    Great news. I have been looking forward to seeing the results from this feature. It should be a first for any camera to be able to stack exposures and create a raw with the best average exposure.

    Hopefully adhoc will come before end of 2019. Really need a Capture Pilot type solution for field work.

    Paul C
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    www.photosofarkansas.com
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    It should be a first for any camera to be able to stack exposures and create a raw with the best average exposure,

    Paul C
    Could one not do this on Sony alpha cameras with the smooth reflection app?

    It’s a great feature for sure though and kudos to P1 for adding it to the IQ4 feature set

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    What I would want to know is IF Adhoc WiFi is coming? I’m seriously worried that is isn’t here yet, there is no communication whatsoever....
    Christopher Hauser
    http://www.chauser.eu
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Stocks View Post
    Does this also bring the IQ4 to parity with the IQ3 with... ad hoc networking to support Capture Pilot?
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    wow... how can it be that we still don’t super important stuff like adhoc WiFi....
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Hopefully adhoc will come before end of 2019. Really need a Capture Pilot type solution for field work.
    Frustratingly, no Ad Hoc yet.

    Sounds like it's been more complicated to complete than they expected, since they had to start from scratch (new OS, new networking hardware, new version of Capture Pilot planned). We have a lot of users rightly very frustrated that it's still not done.

    It does not replace Capture Pilot, or the need to implement Ad Hoc on the IQ4, but some of our users have been using a Surface tablet for wireless review. In a few cases it is a better solution (since you're working in the full version of C1 so can go deeper into the workflow than Capture Pilot) and in other cases it is not even close to a substitute (since you're essentially tethering, rather than using Capture Pilot which is more about remote control/review, and a Surface is small, but nowhere near as small as an iPhone). We have Surface tablets in our demo studios in case anyone wants to make an appointment to play with an IQ4+Surface combo to see whether it's pros and cons line up with their needs/wants.
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 25th June 2019 at 05:49.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Is “automatic frame averaging” the median stacking stacking that I spoke about back at the time of the IQ4’s release?
    "Median stacking stacking"?

    We'll have an article about the Automatic Frame Averaging tool posted shortly, which should answer any questions you have.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Doug, I assume by Surface Tablet, you are referring to a Microsoft Surface Pro, 4 or 5 (whatever is current)?

    Which is a true win10 solution as you know. No issues with this if it's possible to wifi connect in the field between a Surface Pro and IQ4? I have not figured out a way for that to occur, only connection I have found is the standard USB-3 cable to Surface. This works OK but still I don't like the fact I am attached to a cable, prefer freedom of just being on wifi.

    With the new iPads out, mid 2019, I had hoped to see C1 work forward with a more robust Capture Pilot or C1 for iOS solution. LR is there and LumaFusion is there. The later allowing huge capability for video editing on a non Mac OS (iOS) solution. Based on what I have seen the latest iPads mid 2019 have quite a bit of power and processing ability as they are working with 4K video and able to output very good solutions. A iPad would still be a better solution than a Surface, both in weight and battery life. Just curious.

    Also would still love to see a day when Phase allows HDMI for playback. Not sure why this can't be done as any other camera with Video and or electronic shutters with HDMI allow playback to an external monitor. They did a much better job on the Live View, but the current Live View is still broken at least for me. Exposure Simulation can't work in low light without a manual ISO push, and the auto still has the video pulsing problem, where it goes from too bright to too dark over and over not allowing a good visual. I sure hope this is fixed sooner than later also.

    Paul C
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    We'll have an article about the Automatic Frame Averaging tool posted shortly, which should answer any questions you have.
    Is this the same thing as Guillermo Luijk's 'Zero Noise' (i.e. the fusion of several captures of the same scene with different exposures to achieve a final image free of noise and with a large dynamic range) that first appeared 11 years ago ?

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Is this the same thing as Guillermo Luijk's 'Zero Noise' (i.e. the fusion of several captures of the same scene with different exposures to achieve a final image free of noise and with a large dynamic range) that first appeared 11 years ago ?
    To quote our article on IQ4 Automatic Frame Averaging

    "At its heart, this tool works by averaging two or more (often many more) sequential captures together, generating a single raw file. This has the effect of evening out noise in the shadows. With four samples the noise should be roughly half as much as a single capture (which is already extraordinarily low), with sixteen samples it should be roughly half as much again. In theory this technique can be used by anyone with any camera by capturing more than one image of the same scene and layering them with a low opacity in Photoshop or via specialized software. However, manual frame averaging requires capturing many gigs worth of raws, processing even more gigs worth of TIFFs, and minutes (or even hours) worth of computer time; just to generate a single output image. The IQ4 does exposure stacking internally, on the fly, and generates a single raw file ready for immediate use. Moreover, the IQ4 can do it entirely free of temporal gaps and entirely free of vibration."
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    I’m extremely disappointed to hear that Phase One is spending time working on shiny new features while they apparently can’t figure out some basic foundational features (ad hoc wifi, focus mask, etc.). I am more and more worried that they’ve lost their way and are unfortunately becoming a company we can’t rely on.

    (I do prefer to think they can’t figure it out versus just don’t want to work on it. Incompetence can be fixed, corporate arrogance is a bigger issue.)

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Finally, this is one of the reasons I had upgraded to the Iq4. I am looking forward to selling my filters!

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    To quote our article on IQ4 Automatic Frame Averaging

    "At its heart, this tool works by averaging two or more (often many more) sequential captures together, generating a single raw file. This has the effect of evening out noise in the shadows. With four samples the noise should be roughly half as much as a single capture (which is already extraordinarily low), with sixteen samples it should be roughly half as much again. In theory this technique can be used by anyone with any camera by capturing more than one image of the same scene and layering them with a low opacity in Photoshop or via specialized software. However, manual frame averaging requires capturing many gigs worth of raws, processing even more gigs worth of TIFFs, and minutes (or even hours) worth of computer time; just to generate a single output image. The IQ4 does exposure stacking internally, on the fly, and generates a single raw file ready for immediate use. Moreover, the IQ4 can do it entirely free of temporal gaps and entirely free of vibration."
    Very nice. How much does it differ from multiple exposure functionality of Nikon’s D8xx cameras? Sadly, no mirrorless FF or MF cameras implement multiple exposure with raw image as result.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Kind of hard to believe that it could take the averaging exposures fast enough to eliminate any movement in the scene like wind blown tree leaves or flora

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Kind of hard to believe that it could take the averaging exposures fast enough to eliminate any movement in the scene like wind blown tree leaves or flora
    Doug, this question indicates you misunderstand the fundamental nature and purpose of the tool, which is understandable because it's a very new way of shooting! I would suggest reading our article; we're about to add additional sample images.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Kind of hard to believe that it could take the averaging exposures fast enough to eliminate any movement in the scene like wind blown tree leaves or flora
    For long exposures this is a non issue since you would have that movement anyway.

    I don't know how it would handle brighter scenes where you just wanted to average for noise in shadows. Testing will show how it handles it.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    The examples on the DT site/article are for much longer exposures 7 minutes, so if there is movement I would assume it's the same with an ND filter for one long exposure. Movement may be less since you are averaging, but from the article it seems they averaged several frames up to 7 minutes long, hard to tell. I assume for this to work you would take different exposures from around 30 sec to 7 minutes.

    I am curious how it handles exposures in the 1/250 to 1 second range, which is where I would hope to see the same improvement in noise, especially at a higher ISO.

    Example on DT's site is using 2000 ISO, which is not that user friendly in single exposures, where as in their example results seem very impressive.

    Note, to Doug, would love to see the raws, especially if there are comparisons same scene, one shot with Frame averaging, one without.

    Thanks
    Paul

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Example on DT's site is using 2000 ISO, which is not that user friendly in single exposures, where as in their example results seem very impressive.

    Note, to Doug, would love to see the raws, especially if there are comparisons same scene, one shot with Frame averaging, one without.

    Thanks
    Paul
    We're about to post comparisons of ISO 50 with-and-without and a download link to all raws.

    I rarely say this, but I think you'll be very impressed. The ISO2000 examples are visually dramatic, but more useful to demonstrate the technology under the hood (that noise averages out). The difference at ISO50 is what would matter to 99% of people using this feature in practice.

    Stay tuned...
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    So I can shoot car light trails Gapless without using a single long exposure. Sounds great. Still would prefer better communication..
    Christopher Hauser
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    It works on any camera the IQ4 works on, including tech cameras and view cameras (e.g. Arca R)

    Indeed, given how game-changing I expect this feature to be to landscape and architecture shooters, I'd expect a lot of use of this feature on tech cameras.
    That would meet the definition of game changing. This was one of my motivators to go to the IQ4. So glad it's almost here.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    So I can shoot car light trails Gapless without using a single long exposure. Sounds great. Still would prefer better communication..
    The gapless technique is implemented with the "best-in-class sensor-based Electronic Shutter system." Do other cameras with ES have a noticeable gap between exposure when using ES?

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Kind of hard to believe that it could take the averaging exposures fast enough to eliminate any movement in the scene like wind blown tree leaves or flora
    FWIW, the Panasonic S1/S1R do an amazing job of handling movement in a scene when shooting in hi-res mode that combines 8 successive images into a single RAW file of twice the native resolution of the sensor.

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    "Median stacking stacking"?

    We'll have an article about the Automatic Frame Averaging tool posted shortly, which should answer any questions you have.
    Yeah that didn’t quite come out right, did it!

    And I got my averaging method wrong.

    I dug back into when this was initially discussed - let me try again...

    Can the averaging method be set by the user? Modal stacking (where the most common value for each individual pixel across multiple images is chosen) would enable the elimination of moving objects from an image. It’s the stacking method used to create images of empty street scenes where all (moving) people and cars are automatically removed from the scene.

    (Your site seems to be having a few issues right now so I can’t read the article.)

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    The DT website (and Doug’s link) is working again. It’s a neat advance, especially for landscape and other non-moving subjects.

    I’m starting to believe the IQ4 is a few bug fixes away from being a “no compromises” best-in-class back. The upcoming firmware release moves us closer to that goal.
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Couple things I would still like to see that are missing:

    intervalometer
    and
    capture pilot
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Yup - site back up.

    Ok, so I like the explanation of decoupling total time from shutter speed. Very cool.

    This is absolutely amazing. Mind is racing with the possibilities, but again I would stress that the ability to have the user determine the method of averaging would open up even more possibilities.

    Doug - you explain how with longer “total times”, moving cars would become a “sea of smoke”. This of course makes total sense. But with modal averaging, the cars would disappear completely and you’d have an empty road.

    I can’t imagine this would be much of a technical challenge to implement, and am a little surprised Phase One didn’t include the option from the outset.

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Yup - site back up.

    Ok, so I like the explanation of decoupling total time from shutter speed. Very cool.

    This is absolutely amazing. Mind is racing with the possibilities, but again I would stress that the ability to have the user determine the method of averaging would open up even more possibilities.

    Doug - you explain how with longer “total times”, moving cars would become a “sea of smoke”. This of course makes total sense. But with modal averaging, the cars would disappear completely and you’d have an empty road.

    I can’t imagine this would be much of a technical challenge to implement, and am a little surprised Phase One didn’t include the option from the outset.

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.
    I am guessing it has entirely to do with the length of time selected. If for example the samples are a longer length the cars can disappear, but if it is short it would have an "effect" look.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Kind of hard to believe that it could take the averaging exposures fast enough to eliminate any movement in the scene like wind blown tree leaves or flora
    Same with ND filters

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    I am currently a IQ3 100T user. I have been following the comments for IQ4 since it announced. Does it worth to upgrade to IQ4 150 now? It seems all the function is not ready yet and IQ4 seems a testing product so far. Anyone can give me some comments?

    Thanks!

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by edmundphoto888 View Post
    I am currently a IQ3 100T user. I have been following the comments for IQ4 since it announced. Does it worth to upgrade to IQ4 150 now? It seems all the function is not ready yet and IQ4 seems a testing product so far. Anyone can give me some comments?

    Thanks!
    If you are in no rush I would wait.

    Lots of features are missing that were simply there in iq3 100.

    But then again it really depends what you use on the current iq3100 and if you would miss that on the iq4150?

    The image quality is great and movements with a tech cam are great (Main reason I bought and the frame averaging(What I have been waiting for)).

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Boinger View Post
    If you are in no rush I would wait.

    Lots of features are missing that were simply there in iq3 100.

    But then again it really depends what you use on the current iq3100 and if you would miss that on the iq4150?

    The image quality is great and movements with a tech cam are great (Main reason I bought and the frame averaging(What I have been waiting for)).
    Thank you for your reply!

    I am using my IQ3 100T with XF body most of the time. Not going to tech camera in short term. May I know how great the image quality compare to IQ3 100T? Is this a very huge improvement if I only use it in XF body? It seems a very good improvement in the tech cam!

    Thanks again!

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by edmundphoto888 View Post
    Thank you for your reply!

    I am using my IQ3 100T with XF body most of the time. Not going to tech camera in short term. May I know how great the image quality compare to IQ3 100T? Is this a very huge improvement if I only use it in XF body? It seems a very good improvement in the tech cam!

    Thanks again!
    Unfortunately I don't have an XF so I couldn't answer your question there. I would guess it is marginally better in terms of DR / noise. But if it is not on a tech cam I would think twice.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    To quote our article on IQ4 Automatic Frame Averaging

    "At its heart, this tool works by averaging two or more (often many more) sequential captures together, generating a single raw file. This has the effect of evening out noise in the shadows. With four samples the noise should be roughly half as much as a single capture (which is already extraordinarily low), with sixteen samples it should be roughly half as much again. In theory this technique can be used by anyone with any camera by capturing more than one image of the same scene and layering them with a low opacity in Photoshop or via specialized software. However, manual frame averaging requires capturing many gigs worth of raws, processing even more gigs worth of TIFFs, and minutes (or even hours) worth of computer time; just to generate a single output image. The IQ4 does exposure stacking internally, on the fly, and generates a single raw file ready for immediate use. Moreover, the IQ4 can do it entirely free of temporal gaps and entirely free of vibration."
    I remember trying Luijk's 'Zero Noise' when it was released back in 2008 (sadly he hasn't updated it in a while). It worked (works) really well, but he did mention i) that the fewer images you capture the better, as it reduces the potential to lose sharpness between captures due to micro camera movements, and ii) there was little point in taking more than 4 images, so he settled on three (-2EV, 0EV, + 2EV) as an optimal strategy. Given the improvement in sensor design over the past decade, I would imagine that in some situations, just 2 images should suffice (0, +2EV).

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    I would stress that the ability to have the user determine the method of averaging would open up even more possibilities.

    Doug - you explain how with longer “total times”, moving cars would become a “sea of smoke”. This of course makes total sense. But with modal averaging, the cars would disappear completely and you’d have an empty road.
    Currently “Mean” averaging only, but other forms of multiple frame combination would also interest both you and me. For example, median*, max, min, all have some specific use cases as well as more complex math to combine exposure brackets. As you say, once the foundational UI and technical work are done on a tool that opens up an entirely new way of shooting a bunch of new ideas immediately start flowing. It’s really very exciting.

    A lot depends on user feedback once the tool is available. So make sure your dealer knows how interested you are in alternative math options for this tool. The user base for Phase One isn’t millions of people; every person counts for a lot.

    *I think mode wouldn’t work well in a 16-but environment (how likely is it for the exactly same value to occur several times) but I believe median would have the same effect you describe
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 25th June 2019 at 23:55.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    'Frame averaging' is of course what every better cellphone has been doing for the past 3-4 years.

    Google's 'night shot' mode is the most spectacular implementation of it (handheld at that!) Plus there's 'computational RAW' on their Pixel phones, with free file storage in the cloud. Google seem the class of the field in such developments at the moment.

    Interesting interview with Google's computational imaging guru here
    and deep dive White Paper here .

    Admittedly, it's a lot easier to implement this in a tiny fast flush sensor than a full MF one, so congrats to Phase.
    That said, I expect a firmware update by the big names (Sony, Fuji) will bring this into their offerings soon enough.
    Last edited by Peegeenyc; 26th June 2019 at 08:24.

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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Peegeenyc View Post
    'Frame averaging' is of course what every better cellphone has been doing for the past 3-4 years.
    Perhaps as a foundational technology that is true. But not as a tool that the photographer has direct/powerful control over in the same way they can control aperture, shutter, iso.

    It's very rare that any company invents something 100% new from scratch. In fact, technically you could do "frame averaging" film by shooting many pin-registered frames, and physically stacking them for projection/viewing. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a technique employed in film-based aerial surveillance (I don't know either way).

    But I think it's fair to say that because Phase One added this as a native, well-implemented, simple-to-use feature, the number of serious landscape and architecture photographers doing frame averaging on a routine basis will go from almost-nobody to most IQ4 users. That's a real achievement and shows really strong commitment to serious photographic tools.

    But I'm biased, and until the feature update is ready for public download (expected next week) and users start to give it a try in the real world, it's all just (incredibly interesting and motivating) talk.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Peegeenyc View Post
    That said, I expect a firmware update by the big names (Sony, Fuji) will bring this into their offerings soon enough.
    Maybe. Only time will tell. But it's been three years since Phase One added fully automated focus stacking to the Phase One XF and nobody else has done it.

    Other companies have added focus bracketing, or a focus stacking mode where you have to manually guess-and-check at the relevant values (aperture/step size) and manually keep track of the start/end of the sequence during post. With Phase One's implementation you just indicate the front and back of the subject and the step size is auto calculated and the sequence is tracked as a set in Capture One.

    I think most users far underestimate how important a companies mission and target audience is in determining how a camera is developed. As a camera maker, if your target audience is nostalgia-driven, or branding-based, or fashion/sex-appeal oriented that will drive a lot of where you put time and money. If your target audience is driven entirely by image quality, feature set in a professional/serious setting, and overall experience as a tool that will drive you to a very different set of decisions.

    Anyway, I hope I'm wrong. I own a Fuji XH-1 and would love to be able to use this kind of feature on that camera for when I don't have a P1 kit on me.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    We've updated our article with new ISO50 comparisons at a high zoom level so you can easily examine the detail/noise change online. We will also have the raws available for direct download in about an hour so you can dive deep into them within Capture One.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Gaps an issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    The gapless technique is implemented with the "best-in-class sensor-based Electronic Shutter system." Do other cameras with ES have a noticeable gap between exposure when using ES?
    When I've done the averaging in post-production, I've never noticed an issue with gaps between exposures if you keep the indivifual captures on the order of a second or longer. If you do this with another camera besides the IQ4, it's best to use ES, which minimizes vibration. It's pretty easy to average the images set in Ps, or you can use astro software or roll your own. I've done all three.

    https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-wor...jacket-pocket/

    Jim
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Peegeenyc View Post
    'Frame averaging' is of course what every better cellphone has been doing for the past 3-4 years.

    Google's 'night shot' mode is the most spectacular implementation of it (handheld at that!) Plus there's 'computational RAW' on their Pixel phones, with free file storage in the cloud. Google seem the class of the field in such developments at the moment.

    Interesting interview with Google's computational imaging guru here
    and deep dive White Paper here .

    Admittedly, it's a lot easier to implement this in a tiny fast flush sensor than a full MF one, so congrats to Phase.
    That said, I expect a firmware update by the big names (Sony, Fuji) will bring this into their offerings soon enough.
    Would love to see that feature in Sony, Fuji and Nikon cameras. However, I doubt that Sony would implement it as they have not even implemented multiple exposure or focus bracketing.

  50. #50
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    Re: Phase One IQ4 - Feature Update 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Maybe. Only time will tell. But it's been three years since Phase One added fully automated focus stacking to the Phase One XF and nobody else has done it.

    Other companies have added focus bracketing, or a focus stacking mode where you have to manually guess-and-check at the relevant values (aperture/step size) and manually keep track of the start/end of the sequence during post. With Phase One's implementation you just indicate the front and back of the subject and the step size is auto calculated and the sequence is tracked as a set in Capture One.

    I think most users far underestimate how important a companies mission and target audience is in determining how a camera is developed. As a camera maker, if your target audience is nostalgia-driven, or branding-based, or fashion/sex-appeal oriented that will drive a lot of where you put time and money. If your target audience is driven entirely by image quality, feature set in a professional/serious setting, and overall experience as a tool that will drive you to a very different set of decisions.

    Anyway, I hope I'm wrong. I own a Fuji XH-1 and would love to be able to use this kind of feature on that camera for when I don't have a P1 kit on me.
    Spot on. Nikon has focus stacking, and though implemented and updated after Phase, it still, well, sucks. While one might expect that AFA will appear soon on other platforms—I think it is more of a game-changer than focus stacking, and so should be more desirable—that will be proven or not in time.

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