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Thread: GFX 100 First Reactions

  1. #51
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    The whole center file is darker, the exposure settings were the same for all three?
    Good catch its an auto exposure. 1/5 and 1/10th checked the exif.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    "I have no idea what is causing this but it is not bellows leaking. Some kind of reflection is occurring. This alone is enough reason for my not keeping the Fuji 100 as usage on my Actus was one of my major goals. "

    I have experience using the Better Light Digital Scanning Back on several different 4x5 View Cameras that has shown me that although bellow materials are generally opaque to visible spectrum light their response to infrared light is difficult to predict. For example I had a wide angle bag bellows on my 4x5 Ebony View Camera that leaked IR resulting all sots of weird fog effects that could be corrected by wrapping the bellows with aluminum cooking foil. The bag bellows was new and worked fine when shooting film because it did not leak viable light. I don't anything about the type of bellows materials that were used in your tests but if the Fuji GFX100 setup used a different bellows than your 3100 setup you might want to consider IR leakage.
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    The whole center file is darker, the exposure settings were the same for all three?
    Exposure settings were exactly the same for all three images. What you are seeing is some kind of light reflection..... don't know where it comes from.

    Edit: The camera did make some adjustments that I didn't account for...... but the lightness that you see in the trees is not just an exposure differentiation but rather some kind of light reflection. Does not happen on my 3100.....

    Victor
    Last edited by vjbelle; 2nd July 2019 at 11:47.

  4. #54
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotophil View Post
    "I have no idea what is causing this but it is not bellows leaking. Some kind of reflection is occurring. This alone is enough reason for my not keeping the Fuji 100 as usage on my Actus was one of my major goals. "

    I have experience using the Better Light Digital Scanning Back on several different 4x5 View Cameras that has shown me that although bellow materials are generally opaque to visible spectrum light their response to infrared light is difficult to predict. For example I had a wide angle bag bellows on my 4x5 Ebony View Camera that leaked IR resulting all sots of weird fog effects that could be corrected by wrapping the bellows with aluminum cooking foil. The bag bellows was new and worked fine when shooting film because it did not leak viable light. I don't anything about the type of bellows materials that were used in your tests but if the Fuji GFX100 setup used a different bellows than your 3100 setup you might want to consider IR leakage.
    Yes...... two different bellows were used and I did check the bellows used for the Actus G for any leakage with a very bright light shined all around the bellows while in Bulb exposure. I did not check for IR..... no way known. What I am noticing in the shifted images is a type of fog. Even though there may have been a slight exposure difference between the shifted and non-shifted images the fog effect is still very apparent in the shifted images and not in the center image.

    Victor

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Exposure settings were exactly the same for all three images. What you are seeing is some kind of light reflection..... don't know where it comes from.

    Edit: The camera did make some adjustments that I didn't account for...... but the lightness that you see in the trees is not just an exposure differentiation but rather some kind of light reflection. Does not happen on my 3100.....

    Victor
    No, the trees still look weird, but that is hard to judge on such a small file. The difference in exposure makes it harder as well.
    With the other files you posted the contrast of the Fuji seemed a lot higher too somehow, the Phase file looks a lot more 'relaxed', even though that one was taken under cloud cover.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    No, the trees still look weird, but that is hard to judge on such a small file. The difference in exposure makes it harder as well.
    With the other files you posted the contrast of the Fuji seemed a lot higher too somehow, the Phase file looks a lot more 'relaxed', even though that one was taken under cloud cover.
    You have noticed the same thing I have noticed about the Fuji vs. Phase files. There really is a difference. The Fuji lenses are somewhat harsh vs. my Digitar lenses used which is another thing I have noticed. There is also the bias that C1 has with the files which is again something I have noticed. 3100 files shine compared to Fuji 100 files when processed in C1. Camera Raw takes a more clinical approach but the 3100 files always seem to be better.

    My original approach to this whole thing was for the Fuji 100 to eliminate my need to upgrade to a 4150 as I didn't need the extra MP and the overall cost was less. That has been complicated by the fact that shifting on the Actus with the Fuji 100 is cumbersome because of camera size/design and shifting is less predictable than using a Phase DB.

    I can afford to easily do both but I'm not going to throw money away. I have a 4150 coming next week and I could easily exchange the Fuji 100 for another camera vs. getting a refund.

    I'll think it through......

    Victor

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Irrelevant and not helpful.
    thanks
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 2nd July 2019 at 17:58.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    The B&H boys are busy making zillions of dollars trading above the camera floor and could care less about this photo stuff.....just a hobby for them.

    ...

    Victor
    I'm sorry, but what does that mean? Many B&H salespeople I've talked with are also working photographers. What is a "B&H boy"?

    Matt

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    I'm sorry, but what does that mean? Many B&H salespeople I've talked with are also working photographers. What is a "B&H boy"?

    Matt
    I'm not in any way trying to cast a negative picture regarding B&H. They are the greatest and I support them whenever I can. But it is a known fact (I can't substantiate this but it has been been posted) that B&H is the bottom floor of a much larger trading center above where the real money is made. I've always been impressed with the cleverness and creativeness of the Jewish community and though I don't have any kind of documentation regarding this I'm assuming it's more than factual and applaud it.

    Regards......

    Victor
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    "Yes...... two different bellows were used and I did check the bellows used for the Actus G for any leakage with a very bright light shined all around the bellows while in Bulb exposure. I did not check for IR..... no way known. What I am noticing in the shifted images is a type of fog".

    Using bright light on bellows to evaluate IR will not work at all! My bag bellows on the Ebony was light tight and leaked IR like a sieve! As I mentioned previously aluminum cooking foil is a simple means of blocking IR. Run the test in bright sunlight. If the fog is still present you can rule out IR leakage. In my expereince, IR bellows leakage is consistent with image fog.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    I must be missing something ? Never would I do a focus test on a subject that is parallel to the camera . Put something on the ground with a big target and with room all around it . Did I miss any discussion of front or rear focusing ? The photographer is always the greatest variable and suspect until proven innocent . Manual focus or AF ....the most frequently encountered problems are the photographer .

    The part I have a hard time accepting is that the EVF showed it was in perfect focus and yet the image wasn t . Step One prove your focus accuracy . Shoot wide open and look for the plane of focus . The ideal distance is about 20 feet and you should have a big target to aim at thats easy to verify you have it in focus . would love to see the focus plane .

    Step 2 ..camera motion ...turn off IBIS and shoot from a stable tripod ...Eliminate the variables.

    Step 3 ..try a different Native lens and skip the stuff about the view camera until you know you have a good camera .

    Always try to shoot wide open and at a low ISO so that the plane of focus is identifiable and you have no issues with noise .

    I don t doubt for a minute that you have a defective camera but I am responding because I see too many “my camera sucks “posts without a reasonable testing process.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I'm not in any way trying to cast a negative picture regarding B&H. They are the greatest and I support them whenever I can. But it is a known fact (I can't substantiate this but it has been been posted) that B&H is the bottom floor of a much larger trading center above where the real money is made. I've always been impressed with the cleverness and creativeness of the Jewish community and though I don't have any kind of documentation regarding this I'm assuming it's more than factual and applaud it.

    Regards......

    Victor
    I see. Any business or wealthy family has to manage its assets - usually through a “family office” or finance division which is indistinguishable from a trading floor. It is quite common in New York (I have worked with several) and not more prevalent within the Jewish Community. And yes, for some families and businesses the trading arm is the big (or only) moneymaker. I didn’t know that this was considered noteworthy.

    Well, back to photography.

    Matt
    mattgraysonphoto.com
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    The unsubstantiated rumor that I have heard for many years is that the B&H and Adorama Owners are major players in the diamond business. At any rate when B & H opened for business in New York they brought a whole new high level of integrity to the New York City Camera Business. In the old says, camera deals from New York were pretty risky! Today most of the dealers at least try to be honest. Three cheers for B & H!
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Steve.... you are such a sly devil. The B&H boys are busy making zillions of dollars trading above the camera floor and could care less about this photo stuff.....just a hobby for them.

    Maybe as my dealer you could point me to the lens firmware files......

    Cheers......

    Victor

    Consider it done (check your email). I also included the simplified step by step instructions I wrote up.


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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Consider it done (check your email). I also included the simplified step by step instructions I wrote up.


    Steve Hendrix/CI
    As usual my dealer has come through for me

    Thanks Steve......

    Victor

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    https://www.fujirumors.com/fujinon-g...on-af-support/

    here are the links for the GF lenses updates

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I never found the firmware update.... and I did look. Moot point since the camera is gone.

    Victor
    He was talking about lens FW which wouldn't have applied to your situation on a tech camera anyway.
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    I assumed you had upgraded each lens FW since you mentioned the 110 focused spot on.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Lou, PDAF is new, but CDAF is not.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Jim will you update your graphs for lens testing for the GFX100?
    Christopher Hauser
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Lou, PDAF is new, but CDAF is not.
    Thanks-but that is obvious. However---

    Only mentioned it since Fuji recommends updating all the lenses for use with the GFX100 and Victor admitted he did not know about these FW updates. That's all. I understand Victor's troubles were not with Fuji lenses but instead with tech cam lenses.

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Jim will you update your graphs for lens testing for the GFX100?
    I’ll do more testing with the GFX 100, particularly AF. I’ll do mor informal tests. I probably won’t redo the LOCA and focus shift tests, since there’s no reason to think anything but absolute sharpness will change. I will do tests aimed at discovering the micro lens size.

    Jim

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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by fotophil View Post
    The unsubstantiated rumor that I have heard for many years is that the B&H and Adorama Owners are major players in the diamond business. At any rate when B & H opened for business in New York they brought a whole new high level of integrity to the New York City Camera Business. In the old says, camera deals from New York were pretty risky! Today most of the dealers at least try to be honest. Three cheers for B & H!
    Totally agree. I have been dealing with B&H for over 20+ years. While not always the best source for technical information, I have found their overall honesty and customer service above reproach. Therefore, I could care less about their other source(s) of income.
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by JimKasson View Post
    I’ll do more testing with the GFX 100, particularly AF. I’ll do mor informal tests. I probably won’t redo the LOCA and focus shift tests, since there’s no reason to think anything but absolute sharpness will change. I will do tests aimed at discovering the micro lens size.

    Jim
    I was thinking about focus test and distances. Would love to know what to try with the GfX100.
    Christopher Hauser
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    Re: GFX 100 First Reactions

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I checked for light leakage as I was shifting my 72mm lens 18mm left and right in portrait position and noticed the light anomalies in the shifted images. I have a Lupine LED flashlight that has a beam brighter than the sun and shifted left and right with the lens open and couldn't detect any leaks when shining the light all over the bellows.

    Victor
    Looking at the image, the light haze is on the top part of your image? so the leak will be coming in from the bottom of your bellow. Even if you don't use the GFX100 anymore, I think it's safe to have that bellow check out at seams and connection to the magnetic plate.

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    DPR test images are updated now and they are great!

    Hi,

    The DPR test images are updated now and they are just great!

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    We shouldn’t actually get conclusion to fast. We all know the DPReview images are faulty, they even admitted to that...

    Let’s see what’s going on.
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    Re: DPR test images are updated now and they are great!

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    The DPR test images are updated now and they are just great!

    Best regards
    Erik
    Yes, the new ones look better (compared old and new one in LR). Interestingly, DPR labels the new raw files with "CaptureOneSession" instead of "ACR". Since Capture One and ACR use different raw engines, I wonder if we are comparing apples and oranges in DPRs studio scene.

    Also, the new raw file has a heavy blue tint, the old one had a correct white balance.

  28. #78
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: DPR test images are updated now and they are great!

    Hi,

    I usually download raw images and process in Lightroom.

    The way I compare images is essentially that I white balance on the Color Checker and adjust grey scale luminousity to reference data from X-Rite.

    In addition, I often build an own DCP profile, using LumaRiver Profile Editor.

    The way I compare detail is to open the images in Photoshop and resize to some nominal print size like 40"x60" at 180 PPI. On a 24" 1920x1200 monitor viewed at around 80 cm it gives a realistic presentation of an 180 PPI image viewed at around 50 cm.

    In this case, I developed the images in Lightroom, with 'no sharpening' and calculated MTF values from the slanted edges of the DPRStudio Shot. Tyhat gives som quantitative value.

    Than, we can of course discuss things value of things measurable, and the advantage of differences you cannot visually observe.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    Yes, the new ones look better (compared old and new one in LR). Interestingly, DPR labels the new raw files with "CaptureOneSession" instead of "ACR". Since Capture One and ACR use different raw engines, I wonder if we are comparing apples and oranges in DPRs studio scene.

    Also, the new raw file has a heavy blue tint, the old one had a correct white balance.

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    Re: DPR test images are updated now and they are great!

    Hi Erik,

    Thank you for detailing your steps. You are obviously doing the analysis in a very competent way.

    Most people are using just the web version of the studio scene to compare image quality between cameras. It is there that I feel the comparison may fall short (different demosaicing engines, different/unknown parameters). Still, DPR should be commended for doing it at all and for providing the original files so that we can do our own analysis.

    Best,

    - Srdjan

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    I usually download raw images and process in Lightroom.

    The way I compare images is essentially that I white balance on the Color Checker and adjust grey scale luminousity to reference data from X-Rite.

    In addition, I often build an own DCP profile, using LumaRiver Profile Editor.

    The way I compare detail is to open the images in Photoshop and resize to some nominal print size like 40"x60" at 180 PPI. On a 24" 1920x1200 monitor viewed at around 80 cm it gives a realistic presentation of an 180 PPI image viewed at around 50 cm.

    In this case, I developed the images in Lightroom, with 'no sharpening' and calculated MTF values from the slanted edges of the DPRStudio Shot. Tyhat gives som quantitative value.

    Than, we can of course discuss things value of things measurable, and the advantage of differences you cannot visually observe.

    Best regards
    Erik

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