Into MF - Questions and Back (IQ140 or p45+)

[Enthree]

Hello MF Ambassadors,

I decided once, that if I ever get the chance to make cheap leap into digital MF, I will give it a try. I now have the chance of either the p45+ for 1000€ or the IQ140 back for around 1.600€, which seem fairly reasonable, and with a DF body and 80mm is well in my price range.

Now I made my researches, but as MF is so densely populated, it wasn't always easy to get the information, I was looking for. There are a few last questions I got and possibly a little help regarding the choice between the two backs would be very much appriciated.

First and foremost - the two backs. What would be your choice and why? I read a bit here in forums and the opinions seem to get in either directions between the two, regarding battery lifetime, screen and actual sensor size, where I don't get quite the deal of the benefits.

Second regarding lenses - the newer Phase One lenses have this blue ring around them. However, I couldn't really find detailed information about the changes made to those technically. I guess they are made for this IQ4 100MP+ system and would be over-do to my desired system anyhow (ignoring the pricetag)?

Third and lastly - It would be so super awesome, if someone could provide me a full res jpg for a littel pixelpeeping on either of the backs. <3

Many thanks in advance for any advice and help

 

[Paul2660]

Hello MF Ambassadors,

I decided once, that if I ever get the chance to make cheap leap into digital MF, I will give it a try. I now have the chance of either the p45+ for 1000€ or the IQ140 back for around 1.600€, which seem fairly reasonable, and with a DF body and 80mm is well in my price range.

Now I made my researches, but as MF is so densely populated, it wasn't always easy to get the information, I was looking for. There are a few last questions I got and possibly a little help regarding the choice between the two backs would be very much appriciated.

First and foremost - the two backs. What would be your choice and why? I read a bit here in forums and the opinions seem to get in either directions between the two, regarding battery lifetime, screen and actual sensor size, where I don't get quite the deal of the benefits.

Second regarding lenses - the newer Phase One lenses have this blue ring around them. However, I couldn't really find detailed information about the changes made to those technically. I guess they are made for this IQ4 100MP+ system and would be over-do to my desired system anyhow (ignoring the pricetag)?

Third and lastly - It would be so super awesome, if someone could provide me a full res jpg for a littel pixelpeeping on either of the backs. <3

Many thanks in advance for any advice and help

P45+ will give you a true 1 hour exposure, best at base ISO. ISO ranges much past 400 will will have issue with noise, C1 can help on this. Color on this back is excellent, Kodak chip, one of the best in 2008.
P45+ has a poor LCD, worthless IMO for review of images. Only tethers with Firewire, older firewire and hard to find a laptop solution for that anymore
OK Raw support in LR/ACR, excellent raw support in C1
Still find the the P45+ files I have from 10 to 9 years ago, are quite good and color is amazing. Later versions of C1 really helped on the raws from the P45+

IQ 140 has the IQ interface, vr1, which does allow USB 3 tethering to Laptop,
Much better screen which can be used for image review
In doors can attempt to use Live View, pretty hard to use outdoors due to blooming
No 1 hour exposure, but better high ISO range useable to around 1600 or so.
Excellent color, but to be honest, I can't remember if the IQ140 used the Dalsa chip @ 39MP, I believe it is Dalsa, not Kodak,
Long exposures past 1 minute very limited.

Note, if you can step up to a DF+, do it. Much better battery solution, and AF is considerably better than DF. Also see if you can get the rechargeable battery for the DF, DF+, and not use the AA's as they were less reliable in the field.

Paul C

 

[Enthree]

P45+ will give you a true 1 hour exposure, best at base ISO. ISO ranges much past 400 will will have issue with noise, C1 can help on this. Color on this back is excellent, Kodak chip, one of the best in 2008.
P45+ has a poor LCD, worthless IMO for review of images. Only tethers with Firewire, older firewire and hard to find a laptop solution for that anymore
OK Raw support in LR/ACR, excellent raw support in C1
Still find the the P45+ files I have from 10 to 9 years ago, are quite good and color is amazing. Later versions of C1 really helped on the raws from the P45+

IQ 140 has the IQ interface, vr1, which does allow USB 3 tethering to Laptop,
Much better screen which can be used for image review
In doors can attempt to use Live View, pretty hard to use outdoors due to blooming
No 1 hour exposure, but better high ISO range useable to around 1600 or so.
Excellent color, but to be honest, I can't remember if the IQ140 used the Dalsa chip @ 39MP, I believe it is Dalsa, not Kodak,
Long exposures past 1 minute very limited.

Note, if you can step up to a DF+, do it. Much better battery solution, and AF is considerably better than DF. Also see if you can get the rechargeable battery for the DF, DF+, and not use the AA's as they were less reliable in the field.

Paul C

Thank you so much Paul. That is very helpful.

I don't think, I will need these hour long exposures at all. For the firewire, I am just guessing that there are possible solutions with converters? Just a bit slow maybe. So that wouldn't be a killing point. I would like the USB Workflow of course much better tho. A more stable ISO up to 400-800 would be gorgeous. From my experience, I am hardly ever going beond that anyway, but for a few situations this would come in handy for sure. The screen also speaks for the IQ140, which I knew is a lot better, but I'd also sacrifice it for better pixels look&feel and ofc colors anytime.

So the real interesting point for me is the actual look and feel, which remains a bit unclear still.

 

[RobbieAB]

I think it is worth considering the IQ140 would be compatible with the XF camera, if you can stretch the budget or ever wanted to upgrade. The P45+ would not be. This may not be something you particularly care about.

 

[Enthree]

I think it is worth considering the IQ140 would be compatible with the XF camera, if you can stretch the budget or ever wanted to upgrade. The P45+ would not be. This may not be something you particularly care about.

Thanks for this important point, that I didn't actually know about! For now this might be true, but if I should fall in love with the Medium Format on P1, who know's what happens next. I now slightly tending towards the IQ140. Better pay a little more, than be sorry later.

 

[kdphotography]

I vote for the IQ140. Good entry level but with a much improved interface, making usability a huge improvement over the prior P/P+ series.

Go to the Phase XF camera body. Skip the DF/DF+. The improvement in AF performance between the DF and DF+ is negligible. The Phase XF will cost more, but it is an all new platform and substantially better than prior camera bodies. This is not a generational improvement, but an entirely new system that can make the difference between getting the shot and enjoyment----or frustration with the DF/DF+ and an emotional bruising that could undeservedly frighten you away. Many here can probably attest to their experience with the old AFD, AFDII, and DF bodies, to the point that Dante had to work hard to gently coax them to stay in the medium format inferno. Indeed, many miscreants left for the Nikon D800.

The Phase XF is simply a solid camera platform. It works. The AF performance is solid. Working with leaf shutters and fast flash sync is much easier with the IQ and XF. I'm not sure how many of the features are available with the IQ140, but I'm sure you will enjoy them eventually as you work up the MFDB upgrade path. :ROTFL:

If you find that medium format digital is not for you----you'll find that resale of the IQ and XF will be much easier than with the older platforms.

Ken

 

[Boinger]

Thank you so much Paul. That is very helpful.

I don't think, I will need these hour long exposures at all. For the firewire, I am just guessing that there are possible solutions with converters? Just a bit slow maybe. So that wouldn't be a killing point. I would like the USB Workflow of course much better tho. A more stable ISO up to 400-800 would be gorgeous. From my experience, I am hardly ever going beond that anyway, but for a few situations this would come in handy for sure. The screen also speaks for the IQ140, which I knew is a lot better, but I'd also sacrifice it for better pixels look&feel and ofc colors anytime.

So the real interesting point for me is the actual look and feel, which remains a bit unclear still.

Do not assume there is a firewire to usb converter.

As far as I know there is none.

Firewire and usb use a different transfer protocol. Usb delivers data in packets / Firewire delivers a direct stream. These two methods are incompatible and likely will not work.

If you plan to use a laptop it would need to have a native firewire port or a pci expansion slot that can take a firewire adapter. (haven't seen a laptop with a pci expansion port in ages)

I had a build a modern computer to use with an older back at one point in time, but it was a desktop so I could put in a native firewire PCI card into the computer. That will work if you don't mind using a desktop pc.

 

[GrahamWelland]

IQ140 every day if you don't want the mega long exposure capabilities of the P45+.

Btw, how much is your guy asking for the P45+ - I have a need for that back but its specialized long exposure. PM me.

 

[Enthree]

IQ140 every day if you don't want the mega long exposure capabilities of the P45+.

Btw, how much is your guy asking for the P45+ - I have a need for that back but its specialized long exposure. PM me.

The guys are currently both not responding. Maybe they are sold already *sigh*. I'll keep you updated.

 

[Massive Si]

echo the comments above about usb vs firewire

yes the P is still a great back, but the tech is old.

To tether in the field, you are going to need an old macbook pro, which has an inbuilt firewire port. Forget trying to find a pc laptop to do this

 

[Enthree]

Well, some days of reading and researches past. The initial two sensors are gone, but new options developed:

1. H3D body+Back, together with the H 80mm f2.8, 4 batteries, 2 chargers, remote controller for 1.900€ (think this is the best bank for buck I've encountered so far. However, I still tend more to P1, because of the flexibility of an open system and affordable lenses)

2. Leaf Aptus 75 1.000€

3. IQ140 "broken" for 1.280 €

Now for the IQ140 is from a professional trader who states the following:

"Please Note, The LCD on this item flickers back to the main menu page and in turn accessing any internal menus for settings is temperamental."

To me this sounds like a software or touchscreen bug. Has anyone experienced something similar with an IQ back and can give advice? The trading house will still grant me a 14-day-money-back, so I thought it might be worth trying out to fix it with resets and different drivers if that is possible. I think, it is possible, that they didn't even try out to fix it, since it is pretty large trading house. What you think? Is it worth trying? Any advice's on the approach?

 

[kdphotography]

I suggest you start contacting Phase One dealers about MFDBs. You can peruse their websites, but often there is a hidden cadre of used or CPO MFDBs for sale (that may not posted) in inventory.

ken

 

[algrove]

Around one year ago I read that Phase was no longer supporting the P45+. That might have an impact on your decisions.

 

[Massive Si]

there are enough backs out there to not have to gamble on one which isnt working properly - you just need to go visit a dealer (if you have something to trade in, all the better) Phase One are keen to get you into the lineup so can often give you good deals you wont get elsewhere. The bonus being you'd get support and a warranty

The Hasselblad is a good camera (I loved my H in my hands way more than the DF or XF bodies) but its a closed system. You cant upgrade the back or body as easily as you can with a P1 system
You also have to use Phocus rather than Capture One, as the hassy is not supported in C1

Unless you are in a rush, just wait a little longer for the right combo to come along, or go speak to an authorised dealer. You dont have to buy from them, but you will get an idea of what deals they can offer you to get you started

 

[mristuccia]

Do not assume there is a firewire to usb converter.

As far as I know there is none.

Firewire and usb use a different transfer protocol. Usb delivers data in packets / Firewire delivers a direct stream. These two methods are incompatible and likely will not work.

If you plan to use a laptop it would need to have a native firewire port or a pci expansion slot that can take a firewire adapter. (haven't seen a laptop with a pci expansion port in ages)

I had a build a modern computer to use with an older back at one point in time, but it was a desktop so I could put in a native firewire PCI card into the computer. That will work if you don't mind using a desktop pc.

With my MacBook Pro 13' 2017 I was able to use a combination of Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 cable in conjunction with a Thunderbolt 2 to Firewire cable. By doing this I can tether my CFV-50c with Phocus.

I assume it would be the same for the p45+.

 

[Enthree]

I did contact p1 concerning the back issue and also about local dealers. I'll see what they say about it. Maybe they also have another offer.

 

[DougDolde]

I had an Aptus 75S. Good back for it's day but surpassed now by full frame DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras. It did not have long exposure or high iso capability

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Around one year ago I read that Phase was no longer supporting the P45+. That might have an impact on your decisions.

That announcement was for discontinuation of support for P series digital backs (non Plus).

All P+ series digital backs are still supported and serviced.


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[borzamircea]

Hi,

I faced the same dilemma regarding the XF or DF. I eventually went with a XF with IQ140. I got the XF from mpb, iq140 off ebay and 80 mm non br from a shop in Germany.

Although the XF is more expensive, it is worth it as you can keep the body and upgrade the back subsequently. IMO it is more in sync with the IQ backs and the fact that they share the battery type is a big plus in my book. Also, the embedded profoto trigger and controller is another big plus, as I decided to go the profoto route.

Hope this helps.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

LE. Wanted to say that I switched to phase from a Hassy H5D40. I found the phase system more future proof and better featured.

Cheers,

Mircea

 

[Photon42]

Just for the record: Firewire -> Thunderbolt works. I had two adapters stacked: FW->TBv1 and TBv1->USB-C on my Macbook late 2016. No issues.