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Alpa 6x6

darr

darr

Well-known member
dougpeterson said:
By most traditional definitions, the entirety of the image frame needs to be covered by the lens image circle. Therefore (as noted by others above), the IC for 6x6 frames is, like any other format, the diagonal of the frame. Anywhere from 54x54 to 56x56 are reasonable ways of representing that frame (depends on which film back, which generation, and where along the not-a-completely-hard-line edge of the frame you consider the image to start.

That means only a lens with very roughly 80mm image circle or larger will fully cover 6x6.

Of course not every lens maker uses the same definition for their image circle size. Rodenstock, for example, tends to be very conservative and the illuminate (and in many cases, still reasonably sharp) area of the image projected is often larger than the number in their marketing material. In contrast Schneider tended to be very "optimistic" and in many cases the area that was sharp was smaller than the number in their marketing materials. Finally, "cover" is relative. There is nothing written on tablets from the sky that says you cannot use a lens that doesn't fully illuminate the rectangle (in this case a square rectangle) of your frame. Arguably the Holga lens didn't really cover the Holga format but that didn't stop people from creatively expressing themselves using that lens/camera combo.

So, basically, you have to put the lens on and see if you like the results. But if the image circle is notably smaller than 80mm, expect that the corners will be dark, black, or soft.
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I understand Doug, and I agree with the math and the reasoning behind it.

Sometimes though, a pro photographer needs to find a practical solution that will save money, time and get the job done. As an example, back in the film days many portrait photographers wanted the corners of their portraits burned in. Not only was this an elegant touch, but it helped to make your work rise above a non pro. Manufacturers were happy to assist, marketing various types of vignette systems to hang off lenses to create burned-in corners. Why do this someone may ask? Because the only way a pro could make money was to be behind the camera and not in the darkroom burning-in corners. We were taping our negatives to aperture cards and sending them off to a pro lab that made inexpensive machine prints, so your corners had to be burned-in on the negative.

I will bet there was a few crazy photographers that went looking for a solution that did not involve hanging more junk off an already heavy camera setup.
Nerdy artists tend to become photographers, just say'in. :D

Kind regards,
Darr
 
darr

darr

Well-known member
tcdeveau said:
I live in Smyrna, just down the street from their current place.

Thanks for sharing info regarding your Alpa film setup BTW. I've been toying with the idea of getting a film back for mine but don't know if i'll ever get around to it.
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I remember when they moved to their Atlanta Road location. I was living in Cobb, and then moved to Florida shortly thereafter.
My son was born and raised in Cobb. He is now thirty and living in Seattle, but still calls Atlanta home. :)

Glad you enjoy reading about my Alpa and film experience. Alpa + Hasselblad IMO is the best film and digital solution out there, but then I am a fangirl of both!! ;)

Kind regards,
Darr
 
darr

darr

Well-known member
tylerallenmohr said:
What about introducing tilt to my landscapes. Opting for this functionality would narrow the scope of potential lens choices for the Alpa system. Maybe that's a good thing, as I seem to be paralyzed by the abundance of choice at the moment.


I haven't used movements of any kind before. Would the +/-5° available with the Alpa adapter be sufficient in most situations? Obviously a subjective question...but one worth figuring out. :salute:
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If you are going with 6x6 framing, it may be difficult to see the tilt response.
If you can try it first on the g-glass of a view camera, masking out a 6x6 frame and use the widest lens you have, I would definitely do that before buying a tilt adapter.

--

Another thing to think about ...

Because focus planes are critical for sharp focus, whatever focus aid you will be using (viewfinder, digital back LV, etc.), I would keep the same system (Mamiya, Hasselblad, etc.) for film.
For example, I have a Mamiya plate for my P45 and a Hasselblad V plate for my CFV-50c. I would not use a viewfinder with my Mamiya plate to focus and then remove it and place my Hasselblad V plate on and use film. There is a chance the two planes of focus may be off a little. Just a thought.

Kind regards,
Darr
 
T

tylerallenmohr

Active member
Sounds like tilt would be more trouble than it's worth in my case after all. No worries, there is plenty of challenge, fun, and image quality available in a MF system without movements for me.

I've found a groundglass and loupe (thanks Dave). No turning back now ;) Surely a suitable Digitar and film back will follow soon. Fun times. :eek:
 
T

tjv

Active member
I use a Linhof Techno not an Alpa, but shoot both film and digital on it.

I’ll chime in and say the RS APO-SD 55mm is a great option for film use (and digital!) with its large IC.

I don’t know what the Alpa GG is like, but I have a Silvestri GG and find dialing in tilt exceptionally easy. I’m use a Linhof Studio 12x loup, really the best option by far.

As an aside, the new version Linhof ultra-bright screen is by far the best GG I have ever used - it’s a pity they don’t sell it in larger sizes for film use. Is the Alpa screen outsourced to Linhof like their rolex film back?
 
BFD

BFD

Active member
Uh, no on the 56mm circle to cover a 6x6cm frame. It's definitely 85mm. Draw it out if you have to. First clue is 56mm is less than 60mm so the circle is smaller than the square to begin with.
 
T

tylerallenmohr

Active member
I managed to find a good condition Hasselblad film back. It's the early version pre-dating the 'A-12' backs (AKA 'Magazine 12'). It has the peep-hole window that doubles as the ASA dial, the 'V' button on top, and semi-circular chrome film winder on the right side rather than the little black crank.

To attach with the Alpa TC, I believe I also need the Alpa/Hasselblad 'V' adapter (HAA - 190.010.012). Is that the right one?

Also, with my digital back I had the adapter calibrated/shimmed for best performance. Is this type of thing possible/necessary with the 3rd party film back?
 
darr

darr

Well-known member
tylerallenmohr said:
I managed to find a good condition Hasselblad film back. It's the early version pre-dating the 'A-12' backs (AKA 'Magazine 12'). It has the peep-hole window that doubles as the ASA dial, the 'V' button on top, and semi-circular chrome film winder on the right side rather than the little black crank.

To attach with the Alpa TC, I believe I also need the Alpa/Hasselblad 'V' adapter (HAA - 190.010.012). Is that the right one?

Also, with my digital back I had the adapter calibrated/shimmed for best performance. Is this type of thing possible/necessary with the 3rd party film back?
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Hi Tyler,

Yes, you will need a Hasselblad "V" adapter plate to attach the film magazine.

Sorry, but I do not know the ALPA model number as I purchased mine in used condition years ago and it is the older type. It sounds like you may not have a CMOS digital back with Live View (in regards to the need for plate calibration), is this correct? If you do have Live View, use it for focusing, then run a test roll to see if the film plane of the film magazine + "V" plate matches the digital back. In theory, the film planes from either plate adapters should match up, but you will not know for sure until you run a test.

If not, you can focus off of a Hasselblad SWC ground-glass (SWC GG) as in picture #2 below with a loupe, or you can attach a Hasselblad viewfinder to the SWC GG. The SWC GG attaches to the "V" plate. In picture #1 is the Hasselblad Viewfinder Rmfx #72530 that I use sometimes for composing and focusing. What I use the most however is a waist-level finder because it allows me to look through the ground-glass similar to a 4x5 when it is attached to my ALPA. The Rmfx is a nice viewfinder, but it requires you to look down into it, and my 5'2" height is not always a plus when having to look down into a viewfinder. :(

Sounds like you are getting your kit ready for film!
Anything contributing to film is a blessing to me!!

Kind regards,
Darr

 
darr

darr

Well-known member


Here is the Waist-Level finder attached to my SWA. I stow the SWA with it attached. If you have the SWC-GG, you can attach any V finder to it.
​
 
ErikKaffehr

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
dchew said:
I think it is, yes. Unless you are doing close-up photography and want a very narrow DoF that slices through the image at an angle like watches. Thing is, as you increase tilt the DoF wedge gets smaller. Above 5 degrees the DoF is pretty narrow, especially with longer lenses. There have been a few times where I wish I had more than 5 degrees, but those were table-top product situations, and I could get away with a narrow DoF as long as it was in just the right spot at just the right angle.

Dave
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Hi,

Mostly I shoot just a few degrees of tilt, like around 3 degree.

But longer lenses may need more tilt.



This was about 10 degrees, maximum I have.

So, for landscape and relatively short lenses I think 5 degrees are quite OK.


Best regards
Erik
 
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