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Blue ring SK lenses on Sony mirrorless - Success!

chbenard

New member
After sharing it on Instagram a few weeks ago (@benardphoto), I have decided to post it here as it might be helpful to others: I was able to successfully attach my blue ring Schneider Kreuznach lenses to my Sony A7RIII. As a Phase One XF owner I have a love/hate relationship with that camera. It is outstanding at what I use it for (focus stacking) but at the same time it is so frustrating that it isn't more in 2019. It is a brick to carry, there is no electronic viewfinder and it feels slow and dated overall in the mirrorless era we live in. I always wanted to extend the use of my blue ring lenses to my Sony system but couldn't find any report of someone doing it successfully.

I recently read that someone was able to adapt blue ring lenses to Alpa 12 bodies. I also happen to know a few people shooting Contax lenses on the Sony with no aperture control. The idea that came to my mind was to use the XF body to lock the aperture on the lens, then unmount the lens with its locked aperture and attach it on the Sony mirrorless system not knowing if I would be able to focus to infinity or not. So I ordered a few @fotodioxpro Mamiya 645 to Sony E-mount adapters and investigated. It turns out that Fotodiox sells several versions of the same adapter; one with a flat mount and one with a recessed mount. Only the flat mount version of the tilt-shift adapter works with the blue ring lenses (no infinity focus was achieved with either shift adapter or straight adapter). My adapter is consequently a tilt-shift one that works perfectly with the 35mm LS, 80mm LS, 120mm LS but also the older Mamiya 210mm. The results are stellar! The images are sharp from corner to corner even when fully shifted. I now use all these lenses on architectural assignments. There is no aperture control but it is not a big issue for shooting interiors and exteriors. It is in my knowledge the first report ever of successful assembly of blue ring lenses on mirrorless system (see examples and more on @benarphoto). Phase One dealers will certainly not advertise about it even though they would have a lot to gain in promoting such assembly and ask Phase One to share the protocol with adapter manufacturers for aperture control. I was recently offered a trade-in for an IQ4 and after seriously considering it I declined the offer (the electronic shutter on tech cameras is a deal breaker for me). There is no doubt in my mind: the future is mirrorless.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
How is the ES on a tech camera a deal breaker? Just curious as it worked fine on 3100 and now on IQ4, in fact better on the IQ4. You have to work really hard to get any issues from rolling shutter, even with fast movement, which surprised me, but if required you can always go back to the Copal shutter solution.

Also assume that with your mount, to use the Schneiders on the the Sony, you are fixing the aperture? before you remove the lens from XF?, so limits your useablity?

I agree it would be great to the the aperture info to allow third parties to make adapters with aperture control.

Paul C
 

drunkenspyder

Well-known member
This is interesting, because I have done the same thing with my X1D. So, maybe not the first on a mirrorless.:) Still nice work! And I did this precisely so I could use the BR lenses with a tilt-shift adapter on the X1D. I also shoot the Nikon 19 and Canon 24, but the idea of putting the BR lenses on the Hassy was very appealing. I looked at the Kipon, but the price seemed a tad extreme [but would love to hear any experiences from others]. So tried the Fotodiox. I got an adapter for both the X1D and the Z7.

Anyway, I found the need to lock aperture on my BR lenses on the XF body first—which I only stumbled upon by accident—too limiting [and not always successful either], and so have not been shooting this combination the way I expected to. Much as I love my BR lenses, part of my reason to shoot with the Hassy or my Z7 is to lighten the load, not to increase the weight of my mirrorless systems. And if I need a broader range of T/S capability, then I carry the Cambo and some Rodie lenses with my IQ4.150. So, it was a fun experiment, but not a regular thing for me.

Great info. Props for making it work for you.
 

drunkenspyder

Well-known member
How is the ES on a tech camera a deal breaker? Just curious as it worked fine on 3100 and now on IQ4, in fact better on the IQ4. You have to work really hard to get any issues from rolling shutter, even with fast movement, which surprised me, but if required you can always go back to the Copal shutter solution.

Also assume that with your mount, to use the Schneiders on the the Sony, you are fixing the aperture? before you remove the lens from XF?, so limits your useablity?

I agree it would be great to the the aperture info to allow third parties to make adapters with aperture control.

Paul C
Paul, I was puzzled by that, too. ES on the IQ4 has been superb for me, much better than my Trichro.
 

chbenard

New member
How is the ES on a tech camera a deal breaker? Just curious as it worked fine on 3100 and now on IQ4, in fact better on the IQ4. You have to work really hard to get any issues from rolling shutter, even with fast movement, which surprised me, but if required you can always go back to the Copal shutter solution.

Also assume that with your mount, to use the Schneiders on the the Sony, you are fixing the aperture? before you remove the lens from XF?, so limits your useablity?

I agree it would be great to the the aperture info to allow third parties to make adapters with aperture control.

Paul C
Hi Paul,

I totally understand your point of view for landscape work. For architectural interiors on the other hand the deal breaker for me is flash sync. I use flash a lot in my interiors to control light spills around bright light sources and windows. 15 or even 20 stops or dynamic range will never make up for that. Consequently I will only consider a new digital back when global shutters are the new standard.

It is correct. That being said I shoot 80% of my images at f8 or f11 so my usability is indeed not that limited. I don't even bring the XF on shoots anymore.
 

chbenard

New member
This is interesting, because I have done the same thing with my X1D. So, maybe not the first on a mirrorless.:) Still nice work! And I did this precisely so I could use the BR lenses with a tilt-shift adapter on the X1D. I also shoot the Nikon 19 and Canon 24, but the idea of putting the BR lenses on the Hassy was very appealing. I looked at the Kipon, but the price seemed a tad extreme [but would love to hear any experiences from others]. So tried the Fotodiox. I got an adapter for both the X1D and the Z7.

Anyway, I found the need to lock aperture on my BR lenses on the XF body first—which I only stumbled upon by accident—too limiting [and not always successful either], and so have not been shooting this combination the way I expected to. Much as I love my BR lenses, part of my reason to shoot with the Hassy or my Z7 is to lighten the load, not to increase the weight of my mirrorless systems. And if I need a broader range of T/S capability, then I carry the Cambo and some Rodie lenses with my IQ4.150. So, it was a fun experiment, but not a regular thing for me.

Great info. Props for making it work for you.
Awesome!!! I was desperate for a 35mm TS lens and I had to find a solution. The 35mm LS is the exact same weight as the Sony 70-200mm f2.8 GM and I agree it is heavy. I ordered a Novoflex tripod collar mount for it and will report in the near future. I asked Mirex and Hartblei to make adapters. Based on the value of the lenses, pricing is not a factor. I would pay up to $1000 for an aperture control adapter for these lenses. Something is telling me I wouldn't be the only one...
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
I've been using a Fotodiox tube to connect my Phase lenses to the Sony for a year or two. Mostly the 240mm. but only at full aperture. (Great for wildlife).
But how do you lock the aperture on the Phase body before transferring to the Sony?
Bill
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I've been using a Fotodiox tube to connect my Phase lenses to the Sony for a year or two. Mostly the 240mm. but only at full aperture. (Great for wildlife).
But how do you lock the aperture on the Phase body before transferring to the Sony?
Bill
Bill

Fix the lens at the aperture you want via XF. Then hit the DOF preview button on XF. This stops the lens down to selected Aperture. With DOF button still depressed release the lens from the XF. The lens should stay at the aperture you selected.

May take a few tries but will work.

Paul C
 

chbenard

New member
I've been using a Fotodiox tube to connect my Phase lenses to the Sony for a year or two. Mostly the 240mm. but only at full aperture. (Great for wildlife).
But how do you lock the aperture on the Phase body before transferring to the Sony?
Bill
Hi Bill,

I just set the aperture on the Phase One XF, hold down the DoF preview button while turning off the camera, then detached the lens. That's all there is to it: the aperture is locked and the adapter doesn't reset it to its default value.
 

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
This is all nice, but hitting the critical focus at F8 and above on a wide angle lens is much harder than at open aperture. in bad light even more so when the ISO of the live view increases.

i currently have chrismucs c645 35mm here with me, with the mirex eos shift adapter, adapted on my gfx50s and while the lens is brutally sharp even wide open, its a hassle to find the best spot at F11, which is the preferred F-stop of the 35mm.
but i still haven't had the chance to test it in bright day light, hopefully this weekend though.

would still like to compare the c645 and schneider 35mm side by side.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Bill

Fix the lens at the aperture you want via XF. Then hit the DOF preview button on XF. This stops the lens down to selected Aperture. With DOF button still depressed release the lens from the XF. The lens should stay at the aperture you selected.

May take a few tries but will work.

Paul C
I normally suggest ejecting the body/back battery before turning the lens (holding the DoF button the whole time). The reason being the lack of power stops the body from sending any further signals to the lens.

To be clear, neither operation is “supported” so is “use at your own risk” but I’ve not had personally, nor seen reported from our customers, any issues doing this.
 

drunkenspyder

Well-known member
I just responded to Paul. See answer below.
Yes, makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation. Although when I think I may need the light, I just grit my teeth and put the XF and/or IQ4 in the Pelican. Grin and bear it for me. And for many of my interiors (old buildings, churches, etc.), flash is often not an option (I don’t do any commercial interior work), so using the IQ4 with a tech rig doesn’t force the compromise in me that it does on you. Generally, those 150mpx are too important to leave at home. Except in circumstances where weight is hypercritical or the XF is not as well-suited (e.,g., wildlife).
 

drunkenspyder

Well-known member
Awesome!!! I was desperate for a 35mm TS lens and I had to find a solution. The 35mm LS is the exact same weight as the Sony 70-200mm f2.8 GM and I agree it is heavy. I ordered a Novoflex tripod collar mount for it and will report in the near future. I asked Mirex and Hartblei to make adapters. Based on the value of the lenses, pricing is not a factor. I would pay up to $1000 for an aperture control adapter for these lenses. Something is telling me I wouldn't be the only one...
Absolutely not! I am right there with you.:thumbup: As noted, it’s been a fun experiment, but the cumbersomeness of the process—(thanks for the battery removal tip; I suspect I was not consistently pressing DOF button when I encountered my occasional glitch, and battery removal helps stay on process)—made this not a very effective field workflow. This started for me as a way to make the Hassy a second back for the Phase lenses (240 as Bill mentioned, though I already have Mamiya and Hassy long lenses adapted for the X1D that I can also use on the Phase), but given Hassy’s slow delivery of a zoom, I really wanted to see about putting the 40-80 on it. T/S capability with the 35 just became a huge bonus in my head (though as posted elsewhere, I have enjoyed shooting the Nikon 19mmPC on the Hassy). But lack of aperture control in the field was just too much of a shooting hindrance.

I could wish for one thing here: An adapter with electronic connections for aperture control of the 645 lenses back to the X1D, Sony, Nikon, etc., preferably with TS built in, like the TechArt Canon adapter for the X1D. And yes, $1k would be a no/brainer for that capability. Between TechArt, Mirex, Hartblei, and Novoflex, I could hope someone would find this worth doing.

P.S. Can you share which Novoflex collar you bought? I have often thought Phase dropped the ball not supplying removable tripod feet for pretty much every lens except the little 150, the 80, 55, and 110.
 
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chbenard

New member
This is all nice, but hitting the critical focus at F8 and above on a wide angle lens is much harder than at open aperture. in bad light even more so when the ISO of the live view increases.

i currently have chrismucs c645 35mm here with me, with the mirex eos shift adapter, adapted on my gfx50s and while the lens is brutally sharp even wide open, its a hassle to find the best spot at F11, which is the preferred F-stop of the 35mm.
but i still haven't had the chance to test it in bright day light, hopefully this weekend though.

would still like to compare the c645 and schneider 35mm side by side.
Not so bad actually when using the excellent focus magnification and focus peaking on the Sony. I have set the C1 custom button for focus magnification and I can focus precisely at f11 in no time. In darker environment boosting the ISO for focusing does the trick. It should be even easier soon with the new EVF on the A7R IV (or the GFX 100 but I have no clue if the SK 35mm LS can focus to infinity on that body).

Would be interested indeed to compare these 2 lenses. Let me know if you get a chance to do so!
 

chbenard

New member
I normally suggest ejecting the body/back battery before turning the lens (holding the DoF button the whole time). The reason being the lack of power stops the body from sending any further signals to the lens.

To be clear, neither operation is “supported” so is “use at your own risk” but I’ve not had personally, nor seen reported from our customers, any issues doing this.
The camera can simply be switched off while pressing the DoF button. I would never detach it with the power still on. I guess your suggestion to eject the battery is even safer :thumbup:
 

chbenard

New member
Absolutely not! I am right there with you.:thumbup: As noted, it’s been a fun experiment, but the cumbersomeness of the process—(thanks for the battery removal tip; I suspect I was not consistently pressing DOF button when I encountered my occasional glitch, and battery removal helps stay on process)—made this not a very effective field workflow. This started for me as a way to make the Hassy a second back for the Phase lenses (240 as Bill mentioned, though I already have Mamiya and Hassy long lenses adapted for the X1D that I can also use on the Phase), but given Hassy’s slow delivery of a zoom, I really wanted to see about putting the 40-80 on it. T/S capability with the 35 just became a huge bonus in my head (though as posted elsewhere, I have enjoyed shooting the Nikon 19mmPC on the Hassy). But lack of aperture control in the field was just too much of a shooting hindrance.

I could wish for one thing here: An adapter with electronic connections for aperture control of the 645 lenses back to the X1D, Sony, Nikon, etc., preferably with TS built in, like the TechArt Canon adapter for the X1D. And yes, $1k would be a no/brainer for that capability. Between TechArt, Mirex, Hartblei, and Novoflex, I could hope someone would find this worth doing.

P.S. Can you share which Novoflex collar you bought? I have often thought Phase dropped the ball not supplying removable tripod feet for pretty much every lens except the little 150, the 80, 55, and 110.
Fair enough. I know it is not perfect but it helps a lot!
Novoflex collar received: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ex_ASTAT_NEX_ASTAT_NEX_Tripod_Collar_for.html I haven't had a chance to play much with it yet (busy times!) but it fits on the Fotodiox adapter when removing the inside "add-on" ring. Not sure yet it will fit on the Cube GP with the vertical battery grip installed on the camera. I might have to say goodbye to my battery grip...
 
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