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Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

RLB

Member
From my seat it appears the XT may be aimed at photographers who are not current Tech camera users , whether this was intentional or not on P1 part I can't answer.
It's set in a place between the XF and everyone else's less electronic Tech cameras. I'm excited as others are that another manufacture has even entered the Tech camera arena with a new product...when's the last time that happened?

While it is not perfect, the XT does bring more automation, information and potentially "easier" workflow compared to other Tech camera options.
What it leaves off (currently) are lens options and tilt, which for a new adopter of Tech cameras could likely be less of an issue. In contrast for those that have used Tech cameras for may years and large format film prior that, the limitations vs additional features the XT brings may or may not be enough for them to add it at this time. While the body itself is not that pricey, the lenses are, and to take advantage of the XT functionality one must have both. This means either buying all new lenses from a very short list at a high price, or sending your current lenses to Phase (sometime in 2020) to add the XT mount and CFE shutter at a relatively high cost (I saw $4,500 quoted but don't know if that is accurate). While one certainly could (assuming I understand this correctly) it does not seem like a "sensible" concept to simply attach ones Cambo mounted lenses to the XT, as there is no advantage to doing so over any other Tech camera and of course you have 0 tilt options.

I'm interested to see how this plays out. I hope that there will be 100% compatibility with the SK XF Blue Ring lenses...that seems like enticement to me with lenses like the 35mm, 120mm, 240mm (need a lens ring tripod mount on some of those for sure). The upshot to this is not buying yet a whole new set of lenses overlapping focal lengths I already own for my XF.

The CFE shutter is welcome sight as Copal is officially gone along with everyone else's electronic shutters and controllers which never really seem to catch on. Here's a concept:
the XT II....which has a huge CFE shutter built into the body, not the lens. NOW your talking compatibility...add a front tilt like the Arca too while your at it. I'm excited about that concept.


Robert
 

Boinger

Active member
Not here, but it has inspired me to try a quick hack to make an AF capable tech cam...
Gear ring on focusing ring coupled with a laser range finder would be pretty easy to do. Especially mated to an arduino of some kind.

You would avoid the need to interface with the DB.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
From my seat it appears the XT may be aimed at photographers who are not current Tech camera users , whether this was intentional or not on P1 part I can't answer.
It's set in a place between the XF and everyone else's less electronic Tech cameras. I'm excited as others are that another manufacture has even entered the Tech camera arena with a new product...when's the last time that happened?

While it is not perfect, the XT does bring more automation, information and potentially "easier" workflow compared to other Tech camera options.
What it leaves off (currently) are lens options and tilt, which for a new adopter of Tech cameras could likely be less of an issue. In contrast for those that have used Tech cameras for may years and large format film prior that, the limitations vs additional features the XT brings may or may not be enough for them to add it at this time. While the body itself is not that pricey, the lenses are, and to take advantage of the XT functionality one must have both. This means either buying all new lenses from a very short list at a high price, or sending your current lenses to Phase (sometime in 2020) to add the XT mount and CFE shutter at a relatively high cost (I saw $4,500 quoted but don't know if that is accurate). While one certainly could (assuming I understand this correctly) it does not seem like a "sensible" concept to simply attach ones Cambo mounted lenses to the XT, as there is no advantage to doing so over any other Tech camera and of course you have 0 tilt options.

I'm interested to see how this plays out. I hope that there will be 100% compatibility with the SK XF Blue Ring lenses...that seems like enticement to me with lenses like the 35mm, 120mm, 240mm (need a lens ring tripod mount on some of those for sure). The upshot to this is not buying yet a whole new set of lenses overlapping focal lengths I already own for my XF.

The CFE shutter is welcome sight as Copal is officially gone along with everyone else's electronic shutters and controllers which never really seem to catch on. Here's a concept:
the XT II....which has a huge CFE shutter built into the body, not the lens. NOW your talking compatibility...add a front tilt like the Arca too while your at it. I'm excited about that concept.
I think your analysis is absolutely spot on. I think a good number of current tech camera owners will fall in love with the XT, especially when they get to actually see and use one. But there are FAR more people who love image quality, want to use movements (or are at least "movement curious") and don't own a tech camera, nor would be interested in their current level of complexity.

Only three notes from me...

While one certainly could (assuming I understand this correctly) it does not seem like a "sensible" concept to simply attach ones Cambo mounted lenses to the XT, as there is no advantage to doing so over any other Tech camera and of course you have 0 tilt options.
You can attach Cambo Mount TS lenses. But you are correct that mounting Cambo Mount lenses to an XT has no workflow advantage above/beyond any other tech camera (of course, the XT itself has a nice balance of total movement vs weight/size and integrated rotation from horizontal to vertical). It would be, for example, a sensible option if you already owned that lens, especially if you planned to upgrade that lens to an XT mount in the future, or if you are filling in a gap in lens coverage that you don't plan on using very often (and therefore you might be better off buying used in Cambo mount).

The shutter is the Phase One X-Shutter, not "CFE" unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Don't know where you got the $4500 price point from. The price to remount a lens into the X-Shutter has not yet been set, even in ballpark form; that service is not yet set up, let alone finalized.
 
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RLB

Member
I think your analysis is absolutely spot on. I think a good number of current tech camera owners will fall in love with the XT, especially when they get to actually see and use one. But there are FAR more people who love image quality, want to use movements (or are at least "movement curious") and don't own a tech camera, nor would be interested in their current level of complexity.

Only three notes from me...

You can attach Cambo Mount TS lenses. But you are correct that mounting Cambo Mount lenses to an XT has no workflow advantage above/beyond any other tech camera (of course, the XT itself has a nice balance of total movement vs weight/size and integrated rotation from horizontal to vertical). It would be, for example, a sensible option if you already owned that lens, especially if you planned to upgrade that lens to an XT mount in the future, or if you are filling in a gap in lens coverage that you don't plan on using very often (and therefore you might be better off buying used in Cambo mount).

The shutter is the Phase One X-Shutter, not "CFE" unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Don't know where you got the $4500 price point from. The price to remount a lens into the X-Shutter has not yet been set, even in ballpark form; that service is not yet set up, let alone finalized.

X-shutter = CFE shutter (Carbon Fiber Electric)

Thought I saw an estimated price of $4,500. for X mount somewhere in the threads...of course you as a dealer would know. Assuming the current range of cost for a mount on Arca/Cambo/Alpa range from $1,200 - $3,500, the concept of $4,500 for a mount with shutter does not seem to far off "speculation".

A while back (as you may remember) Arca offered a FPS for the R body as an add on mechanism. I really like the idea of adding a large shutter inside the Tech body and not in the lens..of course this presents its own engineering issues: potential vulnerability to damage, the large size may limit high shutter speeds do to leaf acceleration limitation, and cost to produce it. Its a concept, and my guess P1 may have explored it before deciding on the direction they chose for the XT.

Not sure if its right for me, but looking forward to test driving one soon.


Robert
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
It was a guess based on known prices of the Rodenstock 32mm in aperture only mount. Plug that price in and subtract from 12K. Leaves around 3.8K to 4.5K.

Currently list on X shutter 32 mount appears to be 12k. I will round up from $11990. Never have understood that price model.

Maybe Phase one will offer special deals to move existing customers to the XT which will be a lot less.

Paul C
 

Jeffrey

Active member
Tomorrow I'll be test/demo shooting the new XT. As an existing Cambo/Phase IQ4-150 achromatic/Rodie shooter I'm excited to try the new rig. Sure, today there is a limited lens quiver to select from. In time more lenses will come into play for the XT.

Moving into a more touch screen based workflow all on the rear display is a natural evolution and advancement. This interests me a lot.

I'm not certain that bracketing will become part of my workflow in that the achromatic back gives me images that have incredible range. That being said I'll give bracketing a try and see if it is something that produces even better results.

Overall though, having a Linux based format for the back enables the firmware writers to add features that we can only dream of. I'm keenly interested to see what will be coming our way. I have a feeling we will be amazed at the developments in the firmware.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Tomorrow I'll be test/demo shooting the new XT. As an existing Cambo/Phase IQ4-150 achromatic/Rodie shooter I'm excited to try the new rig.
Jeffrey,

As with your IQ4 150 achromatic, we’ll be living vicariously through you :p

I definitely see the appeal of a more ‘modern’ integrated technical camera and electronic shutter based technical camera. I don’t think that it’s for me as I’m comfortable with the old school Actus DB2/G that I use but if I were a new buyer it certainly would be at the top of my consideration list.

Say hi to Francis from me. :thumbup:

Graham
 

CAMBOUSA

Member
Won’t the 120mm Schneider need a back extension? I know it has one on Arca and if I remember correctly it did on Cambo. For that matter so does the 90 HRSW. Same length of extension.

It seems that any lens with a back extension would fit the XT but the XT would become just a standard tech camera as no communication would be available.

Unless a smart back extension is made.

Paul C
Paul,

Just wanted to pop in here for a second on this one. The official word from Cambo is that some of the current short barrel lenses can possibly be retrofitted into long barrel configuration for use with the XT.

Shoot me an email with some photos and I'll confirm if its possible with the lens you have now. That should save you and your dealer some headache and travel time.
 

algrove

Well-known member
Tomorrow I'll be test/demo shooting the new XT. As an existing Cambo/Phase IQ4-150 achromatic/Rodie shooter I'm excited to try the new rig.
Jeffrey

If I were in your shoes I would demo the XT too. Sadly I am not-poor me with my nice Alpa kit and IQ4150 achromatic. haha
 

dchew

Well-known member
Hi Doug,

Can focus mask be combined with 100% view?

Best regards
Erik
Erik, since the context of the XT is primarily around the IQ4150, no, at least not yet. It has focus "peaking" while in live view at up to 400%, but focus "mask" during image review only shows on the image full-scene.

Dave
 
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JaapD

Member
I don’t know why PhaseOne hasn’t chosen for incorporating a focal plane shutter in their XT, like the Alpa FPS. Then anyone would be able to use lenses without leaf shutters, or use existing lenses through bypassing the mechanical leaf shutter.

I presume PhaseOne must have thought about that as well, taking the install base of current optics and rework activities to an electronic leaf shutter into consideration.

Any Alpa FPS owners out here understanding why a focal plane shutter would not be a good idea?

Regards,
Jaap.
 
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Christopher

Active member
More vibration, less money to make. We could just use used cambo lenses.

I don’t know why PhaseOne hasn’t chosen for incorporating a focal plane shutter in their XT, like the Alpa FPS. Then anyone would be able to use lenses without leaf shutters.

I presume PhaseOne must have thought about that as well, taking the install base of current optics and rework activities to an electronic leaf shutter into consideration.

Any Alpa FPS owners out here understanding why a focal plane shutter would not be a good idea?

Regards,
Jaap.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
More vibration, less money to make. We could just use used cambo lenses.
While a nice dose of cynicism never hurts, you CAN “just use Cambo lenses” on the XT and adding a focal plane shutter to the XT would have only provided up to 1/125 shutter speed with flash sync and wouldn’t have provided lens model-serial metadata or aperture control and aperture metadata.

It’s the lens that needs to be smart to achieve complete simplicity and integration.

— reposting from LL...

FPS:
- flash sync: 1/125
- vibration: considerable
- aperture control: manual
- lens metadata: none
- durability: ~100,000
- flange distance: uses up several mm
- Alpas implementation also added considerable size, weight, an extra cable and an extra battery, though P1 might have been able to improve on that

X-shutter (Leaf shutter)
- flash sync: 1/1000
- vibration: negligible
- aperture control: automatic
- lens metadata: automatic
- durability: 1,000,000
- flange distance: no impact

I don’t have exact weight specs but between the mechanism itself and the impact on the housing/chassis a LS is going to be considerably lighter until you get to a several lens kit. The power draw of a leaf shutter is also considerably less than a FPS since it’s moving a much much smaller mass.

Two advantages of the FPS are
- reduced cost when the kit has several lenses. It’s not that Phase One doesn’t care about cost, but they are a company that prioritizes quality and flexibility much higher than cost.
- faster max shutter speed (1/4000) albeit without flash sync. This is mostly (though not entirely) covered by sensor-based ES that has come available since the FPS was developed.
 
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