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Options for shifting a digital Hasselblad V system

mristuccia

Well-known member
Hi everybody,

For an architectural project that I have in mind I'm currently exploring the feasible options for adding a bit of shift capabilities (tilt is not the focus) to my Hassy V system composed as follows:

  • Hasselblad 503CW
  • CFV-50c Digital Back
  • Almost all V lenses, mostly in CF version. The most used ones for this project will probably be the 40mm IF, and the 60mm CF.
Buying 3rd party LF lenses is out of discussion for now, I'd like to find something to put between my current back and my V lenses (even without the 503CW) which allows a little bit of shift (10-20mm).

The solutions I know of are the following:

  • Hasselblad PC-Mutar 1.4x.
    PRO: probably the cheapest solution here.
    CONTRA: it adds 1.4x to my focal lengths (which are already cropped by the CFV-50c frame), probably a loss of quality and AFAIK it does not shift in portrait mode.
  • Hasselblad Flexbody.
    PRO: no focal length change, no quality loss, it offers tilt as well.
    CONTRA: it does not shift in portrait mode, and it costs more than the PC-Mutar

Unfortunately my back does not offer ES. Well, almost, I can operate the ES from 32min to 1/8sec, not faster than this. So, theoretically I could use an ND filter and stay always longer than 1/8sec when exposing, thus operating my primitive ES. In this case I could pre-set my V lenses in DOF-view mode and use something like a Cambo or Alpa shutterless solutions. AFAIK they cannot operate the LS on my V lenses. Not sure, I don't know their offers well. plus I suspect it will cost a lot. :)

Do you know/suggest anything else that could allow me to shift my V lenses in both landscape and portrait mode without any focal length conversion and without selling my house?

Thank you in advance for your kind help.
 
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jng

Well-known member
Marco,

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. Are you looking to shift laterally with the back in both landscape and portrait orientation? As I'm sure you know, the Flexbody allows only vertical shifts in landscape, but of course if you turn the camera 90 degrees this allows horizontal shifts in portrait.

I've used the Flexbody together with the 40 IF and can confirm that this is a good combination. If I recall correctly (it's been awhile), I could shift the lens up to 14mm with only minimal vignetting (likely caused by the "lens shade" ring that I was using) on a full frame 40x54mm sensor.

Not exactly the cheapest solution but you could find a used Cambo WRS body (which allows mounting the back in any orientation) and adapt your lenses with an adapter made by Litz Studio in S. Korea:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cambo-WDS-...980069?hash=item2ac7b256e5:g:J~cAAOSwmrlUuC4M

Apparently cannibalized from a Flexbody, this adapter allows you to view, fire and cock the V system lenses just as you would on the Flexbody. As with all third party adapters, if it matters to you the one thing you need to watch for is whether you can hit infinity focus, which can be a problem if the flange-to-sensor distance is longer than spec. Trust but verify.

Another not-so-cheap solution would be to pick up a Flexbody and a Phase One IQ1 series back, which in V mount allows you to mount the back in either landscape or portrait orientation. In fact there's someone selling a V mount Credo 60 back over in the buy and sell thread here. However you will lose usable live view, which I can assure you is a big pain in the neck. And at that point you may need to sell your car, but probably not your house. But be aware that Dante is coming after both. :ROTFL:

Hope this helps!

John
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Cambo Actus DB may also be a solution. Check the Cambo website for lens and back compatibility.
 

jng

Well-known member
Cambo Actus DB may also be a solution. Check the Cambo website for lens and back compatibility.
Yes but this will require new lenses w/integrated leaf shutters, which - granted - may be less expensive in Actus mount than any of the round-about "solutions" I proposed....

John
 

mristuccia

Well-known member
Marco,

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. Are you looking to shift laterally with the back in both landscape and portrait orientation? As I'm sure you know, the Flexbody allows only vertical shifts in landscape, but of course if you turn the camera 90 degrees this allows horizontal shifts in portrait.

John
Hi John,

I would need only perspective control, thus only vertical shifting. But I would need the capability of vertically shifting my back mounted in portrait mode, but I suspect this can't be done with the flexbody. Or is there a mounting option for rotated CFV backs?

Regarding the maximum shift, with my 44x33 sensor I should have some margin.
 
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mristuccia

Well-known member
Yes but this will require new lenses w/integrated leaf shutters, which - granted - may be less expensive in Actus mount than any of the round-about "solutions" I proposed....

John
John, Will,

Thank you for your suggestions.

It is true that this way I would theoretically need new lenses, unless... Being also an IT Engineer I've currently the idea of designing a mobile app and a small electronic interface which allows triggering my back through its flash sync input.
I can only shot ES from 32mins to 1/8 sec. That means being forced to use an ND filter on sunny days, but for architecture photography it should be feasible.
By doing so I could probably use a V lens adapter without leaf shutter control. Not sure, just brainstorming for now.
 

mristuccia

Well-known member
I think I’m right in saying that you could achieve your goals with the ALPA FPS and MAX.

But unfortunately that option may require you to sell the house.

https://www.alpa.ch/_files/ALPA_FPS_Schemen_20130923.pdf

(PDF link to the FPS combinations data sheet)

Kind regards,


Gerald.
Gerald,

Thank you for your answer, I'll have a look at the Alpa FPS model.
But let's say that at least for now I prefer to keep the house as well. :ROTFL:
 

jng

Well-known member
Hi John,

I would need only perspective control, thus only vertical shifting. But I would need the capability of vertically shifting my back mounted in portrait mode, but I suspect this can't be done with the flexbody. Or is there a mounting option for rotated backs?
As far as I know, you cannot rotate your Hasselblad CFV back. But...

Since you are shooting architecture and your subjects presumably don't move, perhaps you can shoot multiple images in landscape orientation at +14mm, +/-0mm, -14mm, then stitch and crop? You would lose the equivalent of 5.5mm of shift at either end by shooting in landscape vs. portrait orientation ([44mm-33mm]/2 = 5.5mm), but if 8.5mm of effective shift will be sufficient for you, this might provide a work-around.

John
 
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PhiloFarmer

Member
You want to become a "True Believer"....???

Explore the options the Silvestri Flexicam offers....

Not gear-driven...but all the movements known to exist...and a few that will surprise you....

Sliding-Back advised.....

I use it daily.....(Hassy-V magnum opus...).....creatively......pleasingly....

Cheers,

Hank
 

mristuccia

Well-known member
As far as I know, you cannot rotate your Hasselblad CFV back. But...

Since you are shooting architecture and your subjects presumably don't move, perhaps you can shoot multiple images in landscape orientation at +14mm, +/-0mm, -14mm, then stitch and crop? You would lose the equivalent of 5.5mm of shift at either end by shooting in landscape vs. portrait orientation ([44mm-33mm]/2 = 5.5mm), but if 8.5mm of effective shift will be sufficient for you, this might provide a work-around.

John
Indeed this is an option, didn't think about stitching.
But 8.5mm of effective shift can be kind of limiting.
 

fotophil

Member
Hi John,

I would need only perspective control, thus only vertical shifting. But I would need the capability of vertically shifting my back mounted in portrait mode, but I suspect this can't be done with the flexbody. Or is there a mounting option for rotated CFV backs?

Regarding the maximum shift, with my 44x33 sensor I should have some margin.
Since the Flexbody accepts V Mount Digital Backs, using either the Phase One IO150 or IQ250 Backs with V Mountings which can be attached in either the landscape or Portrait Orientations should satisfy your requirement.
 

algrove

Well-known member
  • Do you know/suggest anything else that could allow me to shift my V lenses in both landscape and portrait mode without any focal length conversion and without selling my house?

    Thank you in advance for your kind help.


  • Well you might have to sell your coffee machine, but here goes:

    Alpa STC/H adapter/H lens/shift away
 

anyone

Well-known member
For the record, I wasn't happy with the flexbody solution. I still have it, but it never lived up to my expectations. The movements are very limited (only back tilt! Shifting range is okay though), and the V lenses have small image circles. I love them on my V-system, but on the flexbody, while I seldom run out of coverage with my digital back (49x37mm), the image quality is decreasing rapidly when shifting. I settled with another system for the purpose of perspective control, and the flexbody is just sometimes, very seldom, used.
 

jng

Well-known member
I agree - the Flexbody is a bit kludgy especially by current standards and not the best in terms of tilt capabilities. However the OP is looking for a way to utilize his existing Hasselblad digital back and V system lenses, which constrains the range of possible - or at least straightforward and economical - solutions absent selling his car/house/espresso machine.

The limits on shifting V system lenses on 6x6 film have been documented by Hasselblad. However on the 645 digital format I too have found that I can shift quite a bit, depending on the lens - e.g., at least +/- 10mm lateral shift with the 100/3.5 and 250 Superachromat and +/-15mm on the 150/4, all on 40x54 format sensor.

For me the Flexbody was the gateway drug leading to my present Cambo rig. It was fun to use and a good solution while I had some semblance of a budget. And then Dante darkened my doorway...

John
 

Ben730

Active member
Marco,

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. Are you looking to shift laterally with the back in both landscape and portrait orientation? As I'm sure you know, the Flexbody allows only vertical shifts in landscape, but of course if you turn the camera 90 degrees this allows horizontal shifts in portrait.

I've used the Flexbody together with the 40 IF and can confirm that this is a good combination. If I recall correctly (it's been awhile), I could shift the lens up to 14mm with only minimal vignetting (likely caused by the "lens shade" ring that I was using) on a full frame 40x54mm sensor.

Not exactly the cheapest solution but you could find a used Cambo WRS body (which allows mounting the back in any orientation) and adapt your lenses with an adapter made by Litz Studio in S. Korea:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cambo-WDS-...980069?hash=item2ac7b256e5:g:J~cAAOSwmrlUuC4M

Apparently cannibalized from a Flexbody, this adapter allows you to view, fire and cock the V system lenses just as you would on the Flexbody. As with all third party adapters, if it matters to you the one thing you need to watch for is whether you can hit infinity focus, which can be a problem if the flange-to-sensor distance is longer than spec. Trust but verify.

Another not-so-cheap solution would be to pick up a Flexbody and a Phase One IQ1 series back, which in V mount allows you to mount the back in either landscape or portrait orientation. In fact there's someone selling a V mount Credo 60 back over in the buy and sell thread here. However you will lose usable live view, which I can assure you is a big pain in the neck. And at that point you may need to sell your car, but probably not your house. But be aware that Dante is coming after both. :ROTFL:

Hope this helps!

John
+1
The Flexbody with the 40 IF is great. The WRS + adapter by Litz is greater. You can shift in all directions at the same time.
I'm still using this combination for a lot of my work.
With the WRS you can also start using other great glass, like the Rodenstock 23, 32, Schneider 70, 120... etc. but you also have to sell your house......
Regards,
Ben
 

mristuccia

Well-known member
Thank you all for your kind help.
I think I'll save up for the WRS + adapter by Litz combination. Or even for the standard Cambo V adapter in conjunction with my nerdy ES control solution.
I guess I already know where this Dante's move will lead me to...
But I will try to keep my house, and especially my espresso machine. :ROTFL:
 

mristuccia

Well-known member
Also another option to consider if you are ok with your existing E-shutter usage (Which it seems you are based on your replies) would be the official Cambo WRS-HV solution for Hasselblad V lenses.

https://www.cambo.com/en/wide-rs-series/wrs-digital-lenspanels/wrs-hv/

We are always here to answer questions as best we can as well!
Hi Blake,

thanks for the link and for the offer for support.
The HV is exactly what I meant by saying "even the standard Cambo V adapter".

Kins regards,
marco
 

Abstraction

Well-known member
It seems for the type of money you're considering spending, your best bet is to pick up a used fuji 50s or 50r, get a shift adapter and mount your current lenses on it.
 
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