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Pentax 645 600mm f/5.6 or Pentax 67 600mm f/4

Hello friends,

I wish to buy one of the two lenses mentioned from one of the friends who is more of a collector of items than a photographer who uses the items. I will be using the lens on a Pentax 645Z.

Both cannot be/ will not be used handheld. So I will be using them with Wemberley WH-200 gimbal head on a Kaiser Tiltall TC-284 tripod.

Photography subjects of interest would be wildlife in habitat and birds at rest or moving slowly. Of course I would continue to try animals in action and birds in gentle flight but without much expectation of success.

The 67 lens is 6 kg but half the price of the 645 lens which weighs approx 3 kg.

Please advise on pros and cons considering that both would be used on the gymbal head so portability is equally sacrificed, but there could be other practical issues like quality, resolution, contrast, aberration etc (and the 67 though fast is a vintage lens while the 645 is a star lens). What would you recommend in case price is not a factor?

I would be thankful for early reply if you can as the guy is eager to sell and I am eager to buy.

Regards.
 
Got a few details on these vintage monster lenses. Looks like the 645 lens with its ED glass would surpass the 67 lens particularly in respect of control of chromatic aberration. It is also lighter and perhaps sharper.

I intend buying the 645 600mm f/5.6 lens.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I know one member here shoots with the 645 600mm on a 645Z and may chime in. From my understanding, the 645 lens is of higher optical quality. It will also work better with your 645Z.
 

D&A

Well-known member
I know one member here shoots with the 645 600mm on a 645Z and may chime in. From my understanding, the 645 lens is of higher optical quality. It will also work better with your 645Z.
Hey Will, you know three of us :) . Tom, Ed and myself both all own and use the 645 600mm. I cannot speak for the 67 lens, never having used it, except for a few test shots with a 67 film camera long ago. The 645 600 is a more modern lens and thus I will go out on a limb and say its no doubt optically superior. I've used big lenses throughout the years, but this lens is quite large and heavy and of course a tripod only lens (often used on a Wimbley). Stability is the key to obtaining sharp shots but when stabilized properly, it's a excellent lens optically. Built quality is also excellent, with good contrast. Sharpness wide open is fairly good but improves noticeably when stopped down to at least f8. I haven't tested it specifically for various aberrations like CA, SA or distortion. Lens though would even be better if Pentax included a coupon for a Sherpa :).

Dave (D&A)
 
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tsjanik

Well-known member
What Dave said. The 67 600mm is an old design with 6 elements, the 645 lens has 12, including ED. The 645 lens is old by today's standards but it is very sharp with almost no CA, but requires care in use to avoid vibrations. A cropped example, using a 1.4x as well:View attachment 145116
 

Attachments

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
I have the 645 600mm lens too and concur with what's been said above - very sharp lens, but needs great care in use. Minimum two points of support, ideally three. Not for the faint-hearted or the spontaneous shot!
 

D&A

Well-known member
I have the 645 600mm lens too and concur with what's been said above - very sharp lens, but needs great care in use. Minimum two points of support, ideally three. Not for the faint-hearted or the spontaneous shot!
Hi Ed. I just amended my previous post (above) to include yourself in the group of three of us here on Getdpi who use this beast of a lens. :)

Dave (D&A)
 

gurtch

Well-known member
Hi all: A lens not as long as you would like, but may I recommend a lens I have: It is a SMC Pentax-A* 645, 1:4 ED(IF). referred to as "Green Star". I also have a matched 1.4X Multiplier made specifically for this lens, so it ends up being a 420mm f5.6. It is light, easy to handle (but has no built in tripod foot). I no longer have my Pentax 645D [ I replaced it with a Fuji GFX 50R which is half the weight (82 years old...it matters!)].
Good luck. Believe me, Dave (D&A) knows his stuff....if he likes it, it is good!
Dave in NJ
www.modernpictorials.com
 
Hello all,

Thank you for your valued comments and advice. Much appreciated.

I guess it is pretty much settled that the 645 600mm is a much better choice. Perhaps the only competition to it is the Pentax 67 400mm f/4 M* lens coupled to the 1.4X rear converter. If you use this combo with a 67 to 645 adapter, it would be sort of equivalent to the 645 format 600mm f/5.6 lens. The advantage is that you can use this as a dual lens - 400mm at f/4 & 560mm at f/5.6. The disadvantage is the obvious issue of adding the converter and the adapter to the lens, with possibility of play between components and likelihood of the converter degrading the image somewhat (even if it is very highly rated).

I can of course use the 645 400mm f/5.6 lens with the 645 1.4x adapter. But this lens is reportedly nowhere compared to the 67 M* 400mm f/4 lens, besides being one stop slower.

Anyway, since photography with such lenses is a deliberate and slow process (which would include working close to where you park the car or hiring a pony & a sherpa) , I might as well bite the bullet and simply go for the 645 600mm f/5.6 lens to complement the existing 300mm f/4 and 400mm f/5.6 lenses, with the 645 1.4x thrown in to go as long as one possibly can with the 645 system (840mm at f/8). And perhaps it would never get better than this.

The other comparable option is to mount the SMC FA* 600mm f/5.6 on a K1 or a K3. But this great lens is at least twice the cost of the 645 A* 600mm manual focus lens. Maybe your keepers with the MF lens would be less than the AF lens, but I believe the joy of photography is not just in the final result of keeper images, but the act of photography itself. And if you manage to get that one previsualised image using the 645Z, I think it would be all worth the trouble.

So I guess Pentax 645 A* 600mm f/5.6 is the way to go 😅
 

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
I can confirm that the Pentax 6x7 400mm f4EDIF works very well with either the 6x7 1.4x converter or the 645 1.4x converter. Here are two shots taken with this lens and the 6x7 converter:

[/url]IMGP5611_Step6sRGBSMALL by Ed Hurst, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]IMGP5035_Step6sRGBSMALL by Ed Hurst, on Flickr[/IMG]

I do not think performance is quite as good as the 645 600mm lens, but it's nice.

As a curiosity, this one was taken with both of those converters stacked:

[/url]IMGP4827_Step12sRGBSMALL by Ed Hurst, on Flickr[/IMG]

Although you can consider 400mm + 1.4x as an alternative to the 600mm, you could of course get the 600mm and then use that with the 1.4x ;-)
 
Hi Ed,

Thank you for your advice.

Never thought of combining the 67 1.4X with the 645 1.4x. That is very innovative indeed.

The shots are absolutely awesome. Thanks for sharing.

I shall get the 645 600mm for sure 😊
 

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Where are you located? If it is anywhere at all convenient, maybe one of us could give you a chance to try ours before you get one...
 
Where are you located? If it is anywhere at all convenient, maybe one of us could give you a chance to try ours before you get one...
Indeed it's so kind of you Ed. I am based in India. Thanks for your offer to help.

With so many positive reviews, including by masters like you, I won't go wrong if I get this lens.

I am going ahead :)
 

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Very kind of you to put it that way...

Good luck with it. The results are worth it, but don't be shocked at the hard work it takes to keep the lens truly steady. It seems to be more fussy than other lenses of comparable length (not sure why).
 

D&A

Well-known member
Very kind of you to put it that way...

Good luck with it. The results are worth it, but don't be shocked at the hard work it takes to keep the lens truly steady. It seems to be more fussy than other lenses of comparable length (not sure why).
I completely concur with Ed. The lens seems to be quite fussy with regards to stability in order to achieve sharpness and maximum resolution...certainly more than other lenses of comparable size and weight. Maybe it's the combination of it being medium format, size and weight of the lens. Just a thought. Best of luck with the lens and please keep us posted.

Dave (D&A)
 
Hey thank you Dave & Ed and all who helped me make up my mind.

I bought the lens from a German gentleman along with the 1.4X for Euro 1360 including shipping charges. I should get it in my hand by mid February latest when someone will bring it to India.

It worked out much cheaper than buying it from someone in Japan who were quoting not less than USD 1800 + USD 200 shipping charges. Add USD 200 at least for Texas local taxes + some import duties and I was staring at around USD 2400 or so (without the converter).

I hope the lens is as good as its price. I tried to coax the seller to confirm condition of the lens as per the scale of Japanese sellers on ebay - new, top mint, mint, near mint, excellent etc. The seller would only say "good lens, clean optics". I have had similar experience while interacting with other German sellers. They don't have too many adjectives in their repertoire perhaps.

I hope to make some decent images with this lens. I hope my Kaiser Tiltall TC284 carbon fibre tripod and Wimberley WH-200 Gimbal Head would be adequate to support it.

Cheers.
 

rdeloe

Well-known member
I hope the lens is as good as its price. I tried to coax the seller to confirm condition of the lens as per the scale of Japanese sellers on ebay - new, top mint, mint, near mint, excellent etc. The seller would only say "good lens, clean optics". I have had similar experience while interacting with other German sellers. They don't have too many adjectives in their repertoire perhaps.
Glad to hear you found what you need. I hope this works out for you. You're more patient than I am. February delivery!

It's not just German sellers. I find many (most) of the European sellers on the big auction site are very sparing with their descriptions, and the photography of the items is often rudimentary (as in a couple bad cell phone pictures and that's it). It's a different approach. My solution is to ask specific questions about things I'm interested in. The people who can't be bothered to answer (and there are many of those surprisingly) don't get my business.
 
Glad to hear you found what you need. I hope this works out for you. You're more patient than I am. February delivery!

It's not just German sellers. I find many (most) of the European sellers on the big auction site are very sparing with their descriptions, and the photography of the items is often rudimentary (as in a couple bad cell phone pictures and that's it). It's a different approach. My solution is to ask specific questions about things I'm interested in. The people who can't be bothered to answer (and there are many of those surprisingly) don't get my business.
Maybe it is the language issue, and also because the Japanese sellers have been doing it with large numbers of photography goods for long, so that they have honed the art of selling.

I will be keeping my fingers crossed till the time the lens arrives physically.
 
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