The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Schneider-Kreuznach Apo-Digitar 80mm f/4 for copy work?

Pemihan

Well-known member
Any experience with the Schneider-Kreuznach Apo-Digitar 80mm f4?

I would mainly be using it for copy work (paintings) on 100mp. But also bring it in the field for landscapes.

Would the SK Apo-Digitar 90mm f4.5 N be better

Thanks
Peter
 
Last edited:

rdeloe

Well-known member
I have it and love it. It's one of my favourite focal lengths on a GFX 50R. At f/8 it's as good as it's going to get. I use it on a tilt-shift outfit, so I value the flatness of field, near-total absence of CA, excellent resolving power, good resistance to flare and ghosting, and excellent coverage for shift; at 15mm of shift I see almost no changes in image quality when I'm at f/8 or smaller. I use it for everything from up-close to long distances.

I have this lens in two versions: the much less common barrel version, and in a Copal 0 shutter. I'm selling my Copal 0 version currently because I find the barrel version is easier to use. Both have 5 bladed apertures, which are not my favourite. But given the type of photography I do, that's almost never an issue.

I have a set of pictures at all apertures for a relatively close test target that I use for my own lens evaluation purposes only. It's built up of 4 ISO 12233 (2010) charts assembled into a group. It's definitely painting-sized ;) Shoot me a PM if you want a link to files from f/4 to f/22. I can also show you files from a real-world scene I like to use for evaluating infinity performance. I tested this lens with that scene because it is actually a SK Apo Componar HM enlarging lens that was rejigged for a digital taking lens. Happily, it's just as good at infinity as it is close-in.

Rob
 

Kuky

Member
I was planning to replace my Canon 90 TS-E with this lens. Unfortunately the one I received to test had some defect, two corners were soft (top left and bottom right).
Nevertheless in the center and the good corners it was less sharper than the Canon so I concluded that even a good copy will be at around 80-85% of the Canon sharpness.
My tests were only against 35mm coverage.

YMMV, you can download tests here and test in Lightroom -- https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AreeacB5VlJl2Ka0PI0k5AqYA6pWZUKX
 

MrSmith

Member
is that the new or old 90mm TSE you are comparing to?
i have the digitar 80mm and use it a lot (along with 60 and 120 digitars) on a actus/A7rII for tabletop still life.

can’t fault the lens and would rate it a smidge above the 60mm and on par with the 120 i shoot at f8-11-1/3 it does soften a fair bit after that so stack rather than stop down. it’s way better than the old canon 90-tse i used to use which itself was a step above other canon primes inc the macro 100-2.8L

i don’t think you will be disappointed with the 80 considering they are not silly money. no idea on distortion for copy work but i don't notice anything odd when i do the odd bit of overhead copying.
 

Kuky

Member
It is the old 90 TS-E which you can find around 700 EUR. My copy is quite sharp.

TS-E it is the sharpest at f5,6 which I forgot to shoot, then f8.
Schneider 80 I found that at center f8 is a bit better than f11, but corners are a tiny bit better at f11.
Anyway with the lens I have for testing, TS-E is better, though not by a big margin.

Maybe some other copies will perform differently. As I sold all my Canon stuff (bodies+lenses) except the TS lenses my idea was to replace the Canon 90 TS-E with the Schneider 80 as I will use only the Cambo camera and in the process make some 300-400 EUR back. But after testing I cannot go that way, it simply does not perform as I was expecting.
 

MrSmith

Member
thats interesting that your experience was the opposite of mine!? i guess that sample variation has a lot to do with that.
i still have my T-se90 but it think it’s not been used for about 5 years so i should probably move it on.
 

Pemihan

Well-known member
I have it and love it. It's one of my favourite focal lengths on a GFX 50R. At f/8 it's as good as it's going to get. I use it on a tilt-shift outfit, so I value the flatness of field, near-total absence of CA, excellent resolving power, good resistance to flare and ghosting, and excellent coverage for shift; at 15mm of shift I see almost no changes in image quality when I'm at f/8 or smaller. I use it for everything from up-close to long distances.

I have this lens in two versions: the much less common barrel version, and in a Copal 0 shutter. I'm selling my Copal 0 version currently because I find the barrel version is easier to use. Both have 5 bladed apertures, which are not my favourite. But given the type of photography I do, that's almost never an issue.

I have a set of pictures at all apertures for a relatively close test target that I use for my own lens evaluation purposes only. It's built up of 4 ISO 12233 (2010) charts assembled into a group. It's definitely painting-sized ;) Shoot me a PM if you want a link to files from f/4 to f/22. I can also show you files from a real-world scene I like to use for evaluating infinity performance. I tested this lens with that scene because it is actually a SK Apo Componar HM enlarging lens that was rejigged for a digital taking lens. Happily, it's just as good at infinity as it is close-in.

Rob
Thanks Rob,

I would love to see the files, sending a PM in a minute.

Peter
 

Pemihan

Well-known member
I was planning to replace my Canon 90 TS-E with this lens. Unfortunately the one I received to test had some defect, two corners were soft (top left and bottom right).
Nevertheless in the center and the good corners it was less sharper than the Canon so I concluded that even a good copy will be at around 80-85% of the Canon sharpness.
My tests were only against 35mm coverage.

YMMV, you can download tests here and test in Lightroom -- https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AreeacB5VlJl2Ka0PI0k5AqYA6pWZUKX
Thanks,

Could be a bad copy you got, sounds like a de-centered element. I will take a look at your test files.

Edit: Just viewed the files and to me it looks like something is not right with the 80mm.

Peter
 

Pemihan

Well-known member
is that the new or old 90mm TSE you are comparing to?
i have the digitar 80mm and use it a lot (along with 60 and 120 digitars) on a actus/A7rII for tabletop still life.

can’t fault the lens and would rate it a smidge above the 60mm and on par with the 120 i shoot at f8-11-1/3 it does soften a fair bit after that so stack rather than stop down. it’s way better than the old canon 90-tse i used to use which itself was a step above other canon primes inc the macro 100-2.8L

i don’t think you will be disappointed with the 80 considering they are not silly money. no idea on distortion for copy work but i don't notice anything odd when i do the odd bit of overhead copying.
Thanks, good to hear that you find it on par with the 60 and 120.

Peter
 

pfigen

Member
Just saying that the new T/S-E 90 is SOOOOO much better than the original one that they don't belong in the same sentence. Don't know how it compares with the Schneider but it's hard to believe any lens can be much better.
 

Kuky

Member
Thanks,

Could be a bad copy you got, sounds like a de-centered element. I will take a look at your test files.

Edit: Just viewed the files and to me it looks like something is not right with the 80mm.

Peter
Unfortunately a defective copy, but even on the good corners I found it to be less sharp than 90 TS-E. What I find strange is that there is a back section which you can unscrew to get access to the diaphragm, but it contains some of the optical elements. I think when screwing back only a minuscule error in alignment can cause maybe the problems I see.

I am quite curious how it will hold to a 100mp sensor.
 
Last edited:

Kuky

Member
I have it and love it. It's one of my favourite focal lengths on a GFX 50R. At f/8 it's as good as it's going to get. I use it on a tilt-shift outfit, so I value the flatness of field, near-total absence of CA, excellent resolving power, good resistance to flare and ghosting, and excellent coverage for shift; at 15mm of shift I see almost no changes in image quality when I'm at f/8 or smaller. I use it for everything from up-close to long distances.

I have this lens in two versions: the much less common barrel version, and in a Copal 0 shutter. I'm selling my Copal 0 version currently because I find the barrel version is easier to use. Both have 5 bladed apertures, which are not my favourite. But given the type of photography I do, that's almost never an issue.

I have a set of pictures at all apertures for a relatively close test target that I use for my own lens evaluation purposes only. It's built up of 4 ISO 12233 (2010) charts assembled into a group. It's definitely painting-sized ;) Shoot me a PM if you want a link to files from f/4 to f/22. I can also show you files from a real-world scene I like to use for evaluating infinity performance. I tested this lens with that scene because it is actually a SK Apo Componar HM enlarging lens that was rejigged for a digital taking lens. Happily, it's just as good at infinity as it is close-in.

Rob
I would be grateful to see those files. Maybe it will convince me to look for another good copy.
Thank you!
 

Kuky

Member
Just saying that the new T/S-E 90 is SOOOOO much better than the original one that they don't belong in the same sentence. Don't know how it compares with the Schneider but it's hard to believe any lens can be much better.
OFF-TOPIC. It's a clear improvement wide open, but at f/8 - f/11 there is only a fairly small step in quality. Closed down they are comparable in real world usage.
You can compare here, don't forget to select the same sensor -- https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx
 

pfigen

Member
OFF-TOPIC. It's a clear improvement wide open, but at f/8 - f/11 there is only a fairly small step in quality. Closed down they are comparable in real world usage.
You can compare here, don't forget to select the same sensor -- https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx
But that link only illustrates why that's such a lame comparison. You cannot choose the same sensor for both lenses unless you choose a 21mp camera for both. And, in addition, those are targets shot at a fairly close distance, which are only applicable if that's the distance you're shooting at, not only with this focal length, but particularly with wide angles. I took the pdf for that chart and printed four prints which are mounted to a very straight wall (steel studs) in my studio to have an approximately thirteen foot wide version of that.

But owning both of those lenses and testing them BOTH on a 5DSR, I can say unequivocally that the new 90mm is hugely better both wide open AND stopped down and the differences are even greater when shifted. And not only is the new lens sharper everywhere in the frame, including the fully shifted frame (including a full horizontal shift on a horizontal frame) but the new lens has palpably better contrast as well. And then there's the super rotator design...
 
Top