Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

[pegelli]

Thanks for clarifying what happens if/when one leaves their subscription. I am keeping my subscription because PS is irreplaceable and Adobe link the two programs together - I can't see a lot of difference between LR and C1 as a DAM for a few thousand shots. however, because I can't see any difference - doesn't mean there isn't one.I'd like to hear from anyone who can show me why LR is a better DAM choice I used to think so - I no longer do - but I could be missing stuff.

I run a fully licensed version of CS3 which is enough for me. I do very little work in PS so ymmv.

Why I think Lightroom is a better DAM is based on two things:
1: I've had several bugs in finding back photos in C1. Dates/labels missing, keywords not found.... etc. etc. This experience comes from version 9, maybe newer versions are better but I haven't tried again. Too much frustration and hair-pulling.
2: All the tools in Lightroom like collections, smart collections, flagging are all not available or much more rudimentary in C1, and keywording/labelling I find a lot more user friendly in Lightroom.

Like always this is very personal, but today I wouldn't want to be without Lightroom as a central repository of all my photo's

 

[PeterA]

I run a fully licensed version of CS3 which is enough for me. I do very little work in PS so ymmv.

Why I think Lightroom is a better DAM is based on two things:
1: I've had several bugs in finding back photos in C1. Dates/labels missing, keywords not found.... etc. etc. This experience comes from version 9, maybe newer versions are better but I haven't tried again. Too much frustration and hair-pulling.
2: All the tools in Lightroom like collections, smart collections, flagging are all not available or much more rudimentary in C1, and keywording/labelling I find a lot more user friendly in Lightroom.

Like always this is very personal, but today I wouldn't want to be without Lightroom as a central repository of all my photo's

I see...my experience with C1 only (really) began when they started supporting Fuji GFX cameras - so I am quite familiar with version 12 and now moving into 20 - the way C1 references photographs requires a bit of learning curve in terms of organising the workflow - I must admit C1 makes it 'easy' to do things the wrong way as far as keeping track of things - unless you do it the right way and then I found that the problems are fewer than LR. eg I've never had 'file not found' issue with C1 - which is a regular occurrence with LR after upgrades - which seem to happen all too frequently in LR/PS on their CC platform even though I stick to the 'Classic' version and very use of the word 'classic' was a trigger for me to start exploring alternative(s)

On your point #2 - all the tools are there in C1 - collection/smart collection/albums / smart albums flagging rating searching .....



Still as you say it is a pain to change - a real pain best avoided if possible.

As for raw processing - I think C1 is better than LR/Adobe for Fuji files and Leica files - I don't do much with PS - but when I need to use it - there is no substitute.

The one thing that really bugs me is C1 doesn't do Hasselblad files or other MF backs - and I have a lot of Hasselblad files. There are littel hacks and workarounds to 'make' it work - but meh...

 

[pegelli]

That's certainly good to hear Peter, I'm still on C1 version 10 where flagging is not yet there and the collection/album/folder tools and views are rudimentary and incomplete (buggy). Maybe I should try the new version 20 but it needs to be a whole lot better than Lightroom (for me) to take the plunge and move all my 70 k+ photo's there. But I agree, as a raw developer it can certainly achieve better results on some photo's than Lightroom. On the other hand the good thing about using the last perpetual version of Lightroom is that there are no more updates coming through that can create problems. :grin:

 

[Greg Haag]

The one thing that really bugs me is C1 doesn't do Hasselblad files or other MF backs - and I have a lot of Hasselblad files. There are littel hacks and workarounds to 'make' it work - but meh...

This is my biggest hurdle in using C1 as my primary file management solution, what have you found to be the best workaround?
Thanks,
Greg

 

[PeterA]

This is my biggest hurdle in using C1 as my primary file management solution, what have you found to be the best workaround?
Thanks,
Greg

I used Phocus to develop raw and produce a tiff which I then imported to C1 and I got tired of doing that - real fast so I just used LR. I no longer shoot with Hasselblad though since I switched to Fuji for MF - part of the reason being C1 support ...see why so many of us hate the notion of being 'trapped by any of these companies?:angry:

 

[Greg Haag]

Thought I might revive this thread since the new year is upon us. Is anyone modifying their file management for the new year? Does anyone have a system that they feel really works well? I am still split between C1 and Lightroom and see no real way to change that. Currently I use Lightroom for file management including my Phase One files and then take my favorites or things like frame avg into C1. I really feel like I double up a lot on my workflow. I would love to hear from those who have a system they really like.
Thanks in advance!
Greg

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Move groups of images by subject and location into folders and use tags after import; delete when importing what is not good - religiously.

 

[dchew]

Hi Greg,
The main thing that changed for me is spot healing. C1 has leaped over LR in spot healing since it is applied to a layer. Now I could export a print straight out of C1 into Qimage One. If it wasn't for my legacy Master catalog in LR, I could stop processing full tiffs for export into LR.

I need a way to attach a raw EIP to an exported tiff. Then, if I ever wanted to rework the raw file associated with a tiff in my Master LR catalog, I could just right click "Show in Finder" in LR and go straight to the EIP, open it in C1, rework it and re-export the tiff. I could choose to over write the old one or create a new version. I suppose I could export both the tiff and EIP at the same time. Hmm...

Dave

 

[Greg Haag]

Hi Greg,
The main thing that changed for me is spot healing. C1 has leaped over LR in spot healing since it is applied to a layer. Now I could export a print straight out of C1 into Qimage One. If it wasn't for my legacy Master catalog in LR, I could stop processing full tiffs for export into LR.

I need a way to attach a raw EIP to an exported tiff. Then, if I ever wanted to rework the raw file associated with a tiff in my Master LR catalog, I could just right click "Show in Finder" in LR and go straight to the EIP, open it in C1, rework it and re-export the tiff. I could choose to over write the old one or create a new version. I suppose I could export both the tiff and EIP at the same time. Hmm...

Dave

Dave, I hope all is well with you! Legacy is the big issue that has kept me tethered to Light Room (14 years of Hasselblad and Leica files). 2021 will mark my first year that both cameras I shoot with are compatible with C1 and has me contemplating what things could look like for me going forward. BTW, I still often refer to your "Field Guide To Technical Cameras", it is the best and most concise resource I have found on the topic!

 

[Greg Haag]

Move groups of images by subject and location into folders and use tags after import; delete when importing what is not good - religiously.

Thank you for your feedback Paul, is your workflow built around Lightroom?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

No I much prefer C20 - when you import your files star the good ones, then delete the rest. Then make projects and folders grouped by subject matter and tag if further categorization is necessary. For example: Say you shoot people, cars and flowers regularly as subjects. Then say you go to New York for a trip and then to Singapore. I would import images, delete the bad ones, move all pics from one location into a folder and then tag them with people, car or flower. Then you can see the imagery by subject matter or shoot (across your whole library). I never get into degrees of stars - I find that too much, but u can give 5 stars to pics u print, say 4 to keepers and then delet the rest as a further process step. Lightroom has a cool map view for geotagged pics, but this is not so important if you are not a landscape photographer imho

 

[Greg Haag]

No I much prefer C20 - when you import your files star the good ones, then delete the rest. Then make projects and folders grouped by subject matter and tag if further categorization is necessary. For example: Say you shoot people, cars and flowers regularly as subjects. Then say you go to New York for a trip and then to Singapore. I would import images, delete the bad ones, move all pics from one location into a folder and then tag them with people, car or flower. Then you can see the imagery by subject matter or shoot (across your whole library). I never get into degrees of stars - I find that too much, but u can give 5 stars to pics u print, say 4 to keepers and then delet the rest as a further process step. Lightroom has a cool map view for geotagged pics, but this is not so important if you are not a landscape photographer imho

Paul, thank you for the great ideas!

 

[Hasslebad]

I use Capture One sessions for all my work projects (discrete photo shoots, useful especially for tethered shoots). For home/casual photos, I use a Capture One catalog for each year. I have Capture One organize the photo by month in the catalog. It's quite flexible and you can use their "tokens" to ingest and organize your photos in however way you want on your hard disk. For instance, my source files are always on an external disk but my catalog is on my main disk. I don't like to have more than one year in a catalog. The exception is that I do have about 7-8 years in a Capture One catalog that I migrated from Lightroom. The Lightroom catalog for those years is still intact but I don't have LR anymore so it's just a vestige that I am loathe to delete in case I ever purchase subscribe to LR again.

The only issue I have with Capture One is that it doesn't "hide" the JPEG that is associated with a RAW file if you shoot RAW+JPG. For my Phase One back, it's irrelevant since there are only RAW files but for my other cameras I have to sift through two images instead of one. To deal with tagging my non Phase One photos, I use Fast Raw Viewer (FRV). FRV just looks into the folders Capture One created and treats the RAW+JPG as a single photo and I rate/tag the photos there. The ratings show up in Capture One. That's the only work around. Other than that, I prefer Capture One to Lightroom.

For work photo sessions, Capture One has no peer.

 

[Hasslebad]

I'd like to add, I used to use Fast Raw Viewer back when I used Lightroom as well since it was so much faster in displaying photos. Again, I rated them there and the ratings carried over to Lightroom.

 

[Pemihan]

I have a simple folder structure year/place/event etc. I import the RAW's into those, make a sub folder named -processed where the C1 processed 16 bit TIFF files goes. Everything is imported into Lightroom where I may or may not tweak the files a bit and send them off to Photoshop if needed.
I don't have the need for a catalogue for file management as my folder structure is pretty straightforward

Regarding Lightroom and Photoshop they are bought and paid for. Both are version 6 and they does what I need, so no need to upgrade to the subscription model for me. Hate the idea of it anyway. Buy and own for me (even though you don't own it but own the right to use it)

 

[Greg Haag]

I use Capture One sessions for all my work projects (discrete photo shoots, useful especially for tethered shoots). For home/casual photos, I use a Capture One catalog for each year. I have Capture One organize the photo by month in the catalog. It's quite flexible and you can use their "tokens" to ingest and organize your photos in however way you want on your hard disk. For instance, my source files are always on an external disk but my catalog is on my main disk. I don't like to have more than one year in a catalog. The exception is that I do have about 7-8 years in a Capture One catalog that I migrated from Lightroom. The Lightroom catalog for those years is still intact but I don't have LR anymore so it's just a vestige that I am loathe to delete in case I ever purchase subscribe to LR again.

The only issue I have with Capture One is that it doesn't "hide" the JPEG that is associated with a RAW file if you shoot RAW+JPG. For my Phase One back, it's irrelevant since there are only RAW files but for my other cameras I have to sift through two images instead of one. To deal with tagging my non Phase One photos, I use Fast Raw Viewer (FRV). FRV just looks into the folders Capture One created and treats the RAW+JPG as a single photo and I rate/tag the photos there. The ratings show up in Capture One. That's the only work around. Other than that, I prefer Capture One to Lightroom.

For work photo sessions, Capture One has no peer.

Thank you for sharing your setup and insights, it was very helpful!

 

[Greg Haag]

I have a simple folder structure year/place/event etc. I import the RAW's into those, make a sub folder named -processed where the C1 processed 16 bit TIFF files goes. Everything is imported into Lightroom where I may or may not tweak the files a bit and send them off to Photoshop if needed.
I don't have the need for a catalogue for file management as my folder structure is pretty straightforward

Regarding Lightroom and Photoshop they are bought and paid for. Both are version 6 and they does what I need, so no need to upgrade to the subscription model for me. Hate the idea of it anyway. Buy and own for me (even though you don't own it but own the right to use it)

Thank you Peter! So is your initial import into C1 and then an import into LR after you export TIFF from C1 into sub folder?

 

[Pemihan]

Thank you Peter! So is your initial import into C1 and then an import into LR after you export TIFF from C1 into sub folder?

Yes that's about right. Here's some clarification, let me know if it doesn't make sense.

I use C1 to import info the main folder but I don't use the C1 catalogue, I use one big session for all my files which works just fine for me. All processed C1 TIFF files goes into the sub folder and both folders are imported into LR. LR can't read the RAW files from the IQ3 Achromatic though but it doesn't matter to me.

Basically I only use LR catalogue in order to be able to tweak the files if I wan't to. With the system I made I know where my files are but I need to import into LR to use it.
In C1 I just use the folder browser or whatever it's called.

It's a pretty simple system but it works for me. Important to make some kind of folder hierarchy though otherwise it can quickly get messy. Something like Photos 2020 > USA > -Processed
Or Photos 2020 > Yellowstone trip > -Processed You get the idea.
I always use - in front of Processed, that way it's always the first folder in the main folder so you dont have to scroll all the way down to get to it if need be. A small step but everything counts if it makes your life easier

 

[Greg Haag]

Yes that's about right. Here's some clarification, let me know if it doesn't make sense.

I use C1 to import info the main folder but I don't use the C1 catalogue, I use one big session for all my files which works just fine for me. All processed C1 TIFF files goes into the sub folder and both folders are imported into LR. LR can't read the RAW files from IQ3 Achromatic though but it doesn't matter to me.

Basically I only use LG catalogue in order to be able to tweak the files if I wan't to. With the system I made I know where my files are but I need to import into LR to use it.
In C1 I just use the folder browser or whatever it's called.

It's a pretty simple system but it works for me. Important to make some kind of folder hierarchy though otherwise it can quickly get messy. Something like Photos 2020 > USA > -Processed
Or Photos 2020 > Yellowstone trip > -Processed You get the idea.
I always use - in front of Processed, that way it's always the first folder in the main folder so you dont have to scroll all the way down to get to it if need be. A small step but everything counts if it makes your life easier

Thank you Peter!

 

[Steve Hendrix]

For quite a few years, at CI we just plain recommended to not use Capture One catalogs. Things have improved, but we still feel the Sessions workflow is so rock solid, that most of us internally still use that system and bypass the catalogs. I have a trust issue with catalogs. I do recognize that they do offer some helpful features for organization. But if you can create a consistent and logical organizational structure (naming, placement, etc.) for your own files, Sessions can still work very well. Some even use the Sessions workflow and import the Session into the catalog (though they maintain the physical location of the Sessions outside of the catalog).

In the meantime, our own Brad Kaye just published an article that details how to organize files that employed Frame Averaging or Dual Exposure + such that you can determine by the metadata whether the file was a FA or DE+ file.

https://www.captureintegration.com/tech-tip-iq4-file-organization-for-frame-averaging-dual-exposure/


Steve Hendrix/CI